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Personal security on board

  • Thread starter Thread starter PeterK
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 143
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I'm with George on this one. If one truly looks at the issue logically it is tough to get to the point that keeping an arsenal aboard has anything truly to do with security and if it did, there are many more and greater risks to safety that could and perhaps should be addressed long before you start buying assault rifles. Hell I would bet more people die in this country from ehlmers glue accidents than shipboard pirate attacks.

Like him I am completely comfortable with firearms and still own my service colt and have a few long guns that I treasure. I do keep a firearm on board but fall short of deluding myself that it is there for pirates... that would just feel to me like post adolescent silliness.

I spent many years at sea full time, much of that in distant and undeveloped locations. While there clearly are instances of robbery and violence at sea, it is considerably less common than similar instances ashore and anyone that cruises stateside and says they need a weapon aboard for security is in my opinion, selling themselves something. If you want to keep one aboard because you want one aboard, that's cool but pirates? puhleeze.

But then again, I grew up poor in Harlem where most grandmothers had more attitude than either your average pirate and certainly more than an average Hatteras owner with a 12 gauge, me included :)

As far as a recommendation to the poor soul who started the thread... if your girl is interested in spending her time with you on a boat and putting a gun aboard risks dampening that enthusiasm, count your blessings, damn the ammunition and go get yourself a big cuddly German Shepherd. If you do try and pass off a mossberg as a flare gun, you may want to get a dog anyway because you will need the shepherd to keep you warm at night when the girl leaves because you tried that bullshit line on her.

Shawn

PS. That post about putting double ought 12 gauge shells in a damned flare pistol? Holly crap that is definitely the stone cold goofiest thing I've heard all year... but it is only Jan 4!

Flare pistols indeed... still laughing at that one.
 
Canuck Dennis said:
So here is a conundrum here at our Marina in downtown Vancouver we had a break in at the Marina office late one evening I stepped outside our boat with a 12ga flare gun, pointed it at the guy with the computer in his hands and told him, stop or I will fire, he calmly looked at me and just walked on up the ramp and into the darkness , if that happened in the US, would he have been shot ?
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Yes and probably multiple times. Why did you not shoot him?
 
Angela said:
I suspect the crew of the Joe Cool (I think was the name) out of Miami Beach would have wanted to have been armed the day they were executed on the boat just a few years ago. That situation wasn't a traditional "pirate" event, but rather they were hijacked by the charterers who then executed them at sea and stole the boat, so they were already unknowingly in deep doo-doo before they left the dock. While I don't know whether there were arms on the boat or not, but if there weren't any, then they really had no chance of survival. At the same time, having arms on the boat would not necessarily guaranteed their survival, but they might would have had a change and gone down fighting/firing instead. Point is - yes, there is that very kind of bad stuff around here.
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Same thing happened to a 65c back in the 90's the crew ran the boat up on a reef south of Bimini and jumped off.
 
IMHO, Insurance is for property protection, Guns are for personal protection. 3 years ago, a friend of mine survived a home invasion. The perps were armed and fired. My friend returned fire with a 9 shot 22 revolver, against an AK47... Two of the three home invaders met their maker, the third one is I'm jail. The bad guys picked my friend because they had seen him featured on. TV show. I personally would rather have a gun option than not. Bad things happen to good people everyday. If you a somebody that's not.comfortable around guns, and chooses not to own one, I totally respect that point of view.
 
dottieshusband said:
IMHO, Insurance is for property protection, Guns are for personal protection. 3 years ago, a friend of mine survived a home invasion. The perps were armed and fired. My friend returned fire with a 9 shot 22 revolver, against an AK47... Two of the three home invaders met their maker, the third one is I'm jail. The bad guys picked my friend because they had seen him featured on. TV show. I personally would rather have a gun option than not. Bad things happen to good people everyday. If you a somebody that's not.comfortable around guns, and chooses not to own one, I totally respect that point of view.
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AK for a home invasion???? Who was your friend? Scareface?
 
When we did the "loop" several years ago I was very concerned about security since we planned to spend a considerable amount of time on the hook. We also planned to spend a considerable amount of time in Canada, and taking a firearm into Canada was not an option. We needed an alternative, and ours was a 100lb Belgian Shepherd.

Kathleen & Ginger in Georgian Bay.webp

Our strategy with Ginger was to make sure she was very visible. We got her out on deck every day, and particularly in the evening when at anchor. Although a very good natured dog, she is naturally protective of her territory so would bark aggressively when anyone approached the boat whether in a marina or on the hook. We found Ginger at the local German Shepherd rescue organization. She went directly from the rescue kennel to the boat and on the cruise. In the entire 6,000 mile trip we had no problems.

I mention the dog solution as a viable one, particularly if your SO is adamant about firearms and you value the relationship. There are plenty of good breed rescue organizations that could help you find the right dog. If you do choose this route, just be sure you get a large dog with a good bark but a kind disposition.

BTW, I do carry a weapon on board BUFFALO GAL, primarily for protection when I can't have Ginger aboard. Also, in the four years I have belonged to the American Great Loop Cruisers Association I can recall only one instance being reported on their forum of anyone encountering trouble where they needed a firearm, and I'm not sure it was the gun that scared off the thiefs or the fact that when the owner heard footsteps on deck he came flying out of the cabin buck naked.
 
Bob Bradley said:
I think this one meets the 10 year criteria...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Thomas_and_Jackie_Hawks

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...-death-sentence-in-newport-yacht-murders.html
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Their are plenty of examples over the years. I remember back in the 70's there was a family robbed and killed on the ICW in either NC or SC dont remember which but the "Admiral" had made it known she was traveling with a large expensive jewelry collection. If you travel in a poor area or country in a large expensive yacht sporting Rolex watches cash and jewelry you might be a target.
 
No not scarface! My friend and his wife take in foster kids. They were featured on a TV show called "Worlds Strictess Parents". Some of these kids come from pretty bad circumstancess. In this case, a former foster child apparently developed a gang affiliation. These guys decided to rob the house based on the former foster child's tales, and what they had seen I'm TV. Late one night, they appeared at my friends claiming car trouble, and wanting to.use the phone. Sensing something wasn't right, my friend retrieved the revolver, and when he opened the door to speak to the folks, he was met be 3 armed intruders, one opening fire with the AK. My buddy will.be the first to tell you that he didnt have time to.aim, he ducked behind a door and did the pray and spray. He struck 2 assailants, 1 DRT, 1 died in hospital, and good police work got the others involved. Point is, it doesn't matter if the gun is a 22, or an M109 SP howitzer... If you.ain't got it, it ain't an option!
 
Drugs were a big problem down here in the 70s, 80s and into the 90s accounting for most if the crime. You can still see the bullet holes in what s left of the resort on Normans.

Markus? Doesn't ring a bell, 20 nm north of Staniel would be Compass cay marina

The hawks and joe cool murders are irrelevant as in both case the killers were legitimately on the boat and it s doubtful weapons would have been usefull

Anything is possible but a carjacking on land or even a home invasion is a greater risk than something happening in US or Bahamian waters
 
That is one good lookin dog!

I agree, bad things happen to good people every day... whether they are floating or on dry land and further, my point was they happen MORE frequently on dry land than afloat. I'm sorry but I think this thread feels like some are trying to make the point that someone should be more likely to carry a firearm because they are on a boat. Personal protection is in my opinion a personal decision that has nothing to do with boats.

If you want to have a discussion about firearms and personal safety writ large that is one matter, but to say that someone on a boat needs a gun MORE than someone ashore is just mathematically wrong. The data clearly shows that life aboard is safer than life ashore in terms of violence and robbery. That wikipedia story was compelling because of the novelty of the boat. The question that was not asked was... how many people were impacted by similar violence in that same zip code, in the same year, without a boat being involved? The relevant data point is what percentage of boaters were impacted as opposed to those living ashore.

We all intuitively know the answer... we are more likely to experience an incident at home or walking on the street than on your boat. So if you don't sleep with a 38 under your pillow or carry a weapon around with you when you go to the supermarket then why would you need to keep one aboard?

My opinion is the answer is because you WANT TO for personal reasons...not because prudence or logic dictates that you do.

That said, I feel better sleeping within reaching distance of my navy colt, I just recognize my paranoia for what it is and don't try to assign the need for it as part of the burden of good seamanship. And worse create insecurity in someone else asking the question.
 
thanks.

My point about the dog is that what most people really want is to discourage aggression, not have to deal with it. The dog is like a good security system. It may not prevent a particularly determined aggressor, but it will cause most thieves to go find an easier victim. If I do encounter one of those really bad guys, the dog will slow them down enough for me to have a better chance of using the weapon successfully.
 
sandspur1966 said:
If you do try and pass off a mossberg as a flare gun, you may want to get a dog anyway because you will need the shepherd to keep you warm at night when the girl leaves because you tried that bullshit line on her.
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You'd be amazed at what some people will fall for. :D
 
"if that happened in the US, would he have been shot ?"

If he had been shot under those conditions, the shooter would be in jail for a long time. There was NO personal threat and there could be no pretense that the shooter was protecting himself or his property. Shooting someone in this scenario would be a crime (murder, I would think) under any US state law.
 
WoW this thread is wondering! To me, a gun on board is not about gun rights, or really about a security issues. I've never felt insecure or threatened onboard. No doubt, you face greater threats in your car, or in your house. It's kinda like flying. People feel more secure in a twin engine aircraft. Statistically, you are twice as likely to have an engine failure in a twin.. the But is you are more prepared, and have more options with the extra fan. That's why I keep a gun on board, and spare bilge pumps, hoses, 1st aid key, et al... It's about being prepared, despite the remoteness of ever needing the weapon onboard.
 
It's kinda like the old joke about protection fro Grizzly Bears.... Bear spray, bells, whistles, or a dirty Harry magnum. US Forest Service is now recommending a gun for Bear protection. This was changed after an analysis of the stomach contents of shot bears revealed.... Drum roll... Whistles, empty bear spray cans, naturalists! . Sorry, couldn't resist
 
Vincentc said:
I am pro choice regarding your decision to be armed or not.
I chose a 20ga "youth model" pump which stows easily aboard, and works well shooting skeet off the cabin top.

I have also had good luck hitting wasps at 20ft plus with aerosol wasp killer. I wonder how wasp spray to the face of an intruder would would work for supplemental security?

Regards
Click to expand...

If you had the misfortune of being on the business end of a gun, and not sure what is on the mind of the person holding the gun, you might not want to wip out the wasp spray and give them a squirt. Not to mention the kind of punks, I think, you might encounter are cowards and travel with other cowards trying to take advantage of some one soft. Like a family man travling with his family. Your just not as soft when you have the right tools, wasp spray might be the right tool, but as indicated in the earlier post, you should be ready.

JM
 
Something which hasn't been mentioned are the legal issues associated with having guns on board

We are all familiar with the risks of having guns on board in certain countries like mexico. In the Bahamas you just need to declare them but good luck justifying shooting a native or if you are missing amno if inspected

Problem is that it s not only abroad. As we all know, gun laws vary greatly in the US. About a year ago, the USCG conducted a routine boarding of a large yacht in NY harbor. The captain did everything by the book and declare a gun to the USCG when they boarded. When the boat returns to its NJ slip, locals cops dragged the captain to jail for gun law violation! Eventually the case was dropped but it for ragged on months with serious legal bills. The case was well documented in Triton

So while it may be easy to have a weapon in board in Florida, if you at cruising outside your home waters, do your homework for each state and county / city you will be passing thru
 
It is illegal to have one on the boat in MD if you are actually going anywhere. If the boat is docked in it's home slip, it may be considered OK - not really sure. In simplest terms, MD state law says it it illegal to transport firearms unless you are enroute to/from a shooting/target range, a gun store. etc. So running the boat down the Ches bay with a gun on board is illegal unless you can convince the authorities that you are going to a gun shop, range, event, etc.
 
Mike, can the boat be considered your home when underway? You can legally posses a gun in your home. Gray area perhaps.
 
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