Personal security on board

[rsmith]

It is illegal to have one on the boat in MD if you are actually going anywhere. If the boat is docked in it's home slip, it may be considered OK - not really sure. In simplest terms, MD state law says it it illegal to transport firearms unless you are enroute to/from a shooting/target range, a gun store. etc. So running the boat down the Ches bay with a gun on board is illegal unless you can convince the authorities that you are going to a gun shop, range, event, etc.

Boats are different in that they navigate federal waters and fire arms are part of the equiptment for vessel security. I'm not going to waste my time googling it but NJ did have the same language as MD but one of the transport purposes was to a "Vessel" I'd bet if you looked it up MD says the same.

 

[Pascal]

If the boat is homeported outside MD and operated / owned by non MD resident, I m not sure local gun laws would apply as long as the weapons remain stored and secured on board

That said,as evidenced by the NJ case I mentioned earlier, some over zealous native may believe otherwise

 

[rsmith]

"That said, I feel better sleeping within reaching distance of my navy colt, I just recognize my paranoia for what it is and don't try to assign the need for it as part of the burden of good seamanship. And worse create insecurity in someone else asking the question.
Shawn"
58 MY


NAVY COLT? I don't think an 1851 ball and cap black powder revolver is a viable self defence option.

 

[rmatt]

The reality is you NEED to know what the laws are for each state and state controlled waters that you visit. No guesses unless you don't mind bars. Even within states local towns can have their own restrictions. Handguns especially. Typically long guns laws are not as strict, typically but not always. If one intends to have a firearm on board it would be prudent to research any place you intend to go and through whose waters you need to access to get there.
Here's a link to start that may help. Laws change so fast, just use this as a guide. http://www.usagunpermitlaws.com/
Training is of the utmost importance. What you can do in a situation. It was mentioned in a previous post about a person liberating some goods. If the person liberating was shot the shooter would have been arrested. It has to be a life threatening situation to shoot and that varies by state.When the manure hits the reciprocating device there is little to no time to think, only react. It has to be the correct reaction. Having a firearm may make some feel protected and probably never have to be used but in the event that it does you need to know. It's nothing to be taken lightly.

 

[MikeP]

"NAVY COLT? I don't think an 1851 ball and cap black powder revolver is a viable self defence option."

Wouldn't be my first choice (as stated, pump 12 Ga is) but the .36 cal Colt Navy worked just fine during the Civil War and afterward for offense AND defense. People are not any more bulletproof now than they were then!

 

[dottieshusband]

I assumed it was a M1911, issued from the Navy, although the antique Navy Colt is what first entered my mind. PeterK, whatever you do, I would recommend taking a course in Handgun safety and obtaining a Hand Gun Carry Permit, not for the intent of going armed, but you'll get a good exposure to firearms, rights and responsibility orientation, some experience, and a license to carry a Handgun that has reciprosity in 40 states. There was a House Bill passed in 2011 to make it reciprocal in all 50 States, but I think the bill stalled in the Senate. Many of the folks my age got our training the Benning School for Boys in Georgia, and did follow up work at one of the schools many International campuses! Hopefully you won't be that lucky!

 

[Boatsb]

I think the navy colt referred to is a 1911whopping navy issue. 45

Then again it could be some kind of horse.

 

[Boatsb]

I think the navy colt referred to is a 1911whopping navy issue. 45

Then again it could be some kind of horse.

Whopping? Spell check on the phone is a pita.

 

[saltshaker]

It is illegal to have one on the boat in MD if you are actually going anywhere. If the boat is docked in it's home slip, it may be considered OK - not really sure. In simplest terms, MD state law says it it illegal to transport firearms unless you are enroute to/from a shooting/target range, a gun store. etc. So running the boat down the Ches bay with a gun on board is illegal unless you can convince the authorities that you are going to a gun shop, range, event, etc.

Is that for all firearms or just hand guns? How does a hunter travel if he can't transport his rifle? Similar laws here but mainly for hand guns.

 

[GJH]

A classic style 1911 .45 semi-automatic, say by Colt or even the more technologically advanced Dan Wesson or Kimber, is the hand gun equivalent of a big vintage Hatteras with Detroits. Not that I think the two belong together in the same place at the same time, IMO. But great guns.

So still no examples of a cruising couple being attacked and needing weapons? Didn't think so.
The couple in California were doing a sea trial, they thought. One of my wife's very best friends was on one of the Joe Cool case juries (the controversial one where the prosecutors blew the case and causes a hung jury mistrial). In her opinion, and she and her husband are to the right on these things, even if the crew on Joe Cool had side arms there was little likelihood of survival. And as Pascal pointed out, they weren't cruising and externally attacked either. But even if you throw these two case in, against millions of boat days on the water, you have a better chance of winning the Power Ball.

So who has jack lines?

 

[MikeP]

"Far across the Chattahoochee, to the Upatoi
Stands our loyal Alma Mater, Benning School for Boys."

OCS 44-67 - Great prep for a fun-filled, all expenses paid tour of exotic SE Asia including as much play time with a REAL assault rifle as anyone could ever want!

 

[rsmith]

A classic style 1911 .45 semi-automatic, say by Colt or even the more technologically advanced Dan Wesson or Kimber, is the hand gun equivalent of a big vintage Hatteras with Detroits. Not that I think the two belong together in the same place at the same time, IMO. But great guns.

So still no examples of a cruising couple being attacked and needing weapons? Didn't think so.
The couple in California were doing a sea trial, they thought. One of my wife's very best friends was on one of the Joe Cool case juries (the controversial one where the prosecutors blew the case and causes a hung jury mistrial). In her opinion, and she and her husband are to the right on these things, even if the crew on Joe Cool had side arms there was little likelihood of survival. And as Pascal pointed out, they weren't cruising and externally attacked either. But even if you throw these two case in, against millions of boat days on the water, you have a better chance of winning the Power Ball.

So who has jack lines?

The problem is George a lot of the cases go undocumented as boats and people just go missing. If youve never been in the Bahamas then youve never seen the posters for missing boats and crews. But then I guess its all the Bermuda triangle.

 

[GJH]

The problem is George a lot of the cases go undocumented as boats and people just go missing. If youve never been in the Bahamas then youve never seen the posters for missing boats and crews. But then I guess its all the Bermuda triangle.

OK, I'll bite. Like who?

 

[Boatnut]

It doesn't seem to mattter what anyone says in this forum, you can almost bet someone will disagree. Whether either one is apperently doesn't matter as evidenced by the actions some go through to prove their silly point.

I understand people disagreeing but it tends to go overboard here.

Just a small problem.

 

[MikeP]

Found this on another forum re guns/boats/MD. THe short answer, so you don't have to read it all, is that a boat under way in MD may have guns on board if they are unloaded and the ammunition kept in a separate location (on the boat). At anchor or dock, the boat is a residence and the guns may be loaded and at hand if desired.

Here's the entire post from the other website:



"This subject has come up on another forum I participate in and I pursued the question with the MD DNR. I wrote three times and received no response. I then wrote to my State representative and then recieved a reply from the MD DNR.
the letter I wrote is as follows, follwed by the response from the DNR

To: Maryland Department of Natural Resources
Dear Sirs:
I have a question about carrying firearms on a cruising sailboat in Maryland.
The USCG has said to me that State Law is the controlling authority as Federally it is alright to possess a legal firearm on a cruising boat.

Is it legal in the state of Maryland to carry a firearm on a cruising sailboat?

Here is the situation:
I live aboard my cruising sailboat (federally documented boat with MD stickers) for 6 weeks in the summer and cruise Maryland as well as Virginia, Delaware and Carolina waterways.
Maryland law states that it is legal to carry an unloaded secured firearm from a residence to the range or sporting event, between residences, or to a repair shop.
The way I read Maryland Firearms law is that while the boat is under way the legal firearm should be unloaded and secured.
However, while the boat is at anchor for the night, since the boat is then considered a residence, I can have the firearm loaded and at hand as necessary.
I have a concealed carry permit that is legal in Virginia, Delaware, and North Carolina but that is not legal in Maryland.

Finally, are the DNR Police the controlling authority or are the County/State Police the controlling jurisdiction.

I realize that this is a difficult question and may need to be researched.

Thank you for your time and effort.

Dear Mr. redacted:

You are accurate in your assessment of Maryland law regarding firearms on vessels. As long as you possess documentation that the firearm is legal (and I am assuming that it is a handgun) and you separate the unloaded firearm from the ammunition you should not have a problem. However, if you are boarded by a Maryland Natural Resources Police officer I suggest that you inform them that you have a firearm onboard so it is not a surprise and they know what to expect.

Thank you for writing to inquire about the legal requirements for having firearms onboard recreational vessels and boat safely on Maryland waterways."

 

[hyperfishing]

Pascal: "You can still see the bullet holes in what s left of the resort on Normans."

Read the book "Turning the Tide" for the story of what went on there.

Almost 100% certain the Joe Cool murderers first tried to charter my boat when it was in Florida, calling from California (I believe they robbed a Walmart there) stating it was "the perfect boat to go to Cuba to pick up luggage."Since I never returned their phone call, I guess they figured out it is illegal to go to Cuba, so they lied about wanting to go to Bimini to the tragic crew of the Joe Cool.

I heard of someone approaching a boat flying a large white flag while crossing to Bimini: it was dead in the water. As the
helpful boaters approached and asked if the white flag boat needed assistance, it's crew said "yes, we are coming to your boat in our dinghy to get water," and fired up the outboard.

The alarmed crew said "No stay away, we will call for assistance and throw you water." Well that did not work and the dinghy was almost upon them. In a few seconds rifles and shotguns were quickly passed out, and held uphigh, not pointing at the three guys in the dinghy.

"Do not approach closer or we will open fire." Dinghy made a U-turn, crooks piled back into the white flag boat, fired up its engines, and took off at high speed.

Always remember the Clint motto from a "Few Dollars More" or one of those movies: "when a man with a pistol meets a man with a rifle, the man with the pistol is a dead man." Pistols good for inside cabin work, rifles outside.

 

[Pascal]

I recently read Turning the Tide, good read, especially when you are anchored in Norman!

I ve been spending 4 to 6 weeks a year in the Bahamas for the past few years and haven't seen any missing boat/boaters posters

Yes, a little common sense goes a long way incl not picking up apparently stranded boaters although many of these stories are unsubstantiated rumors and hearsay , some may be true but from the old days of drug trafficking.

Oh yes, an 80' mutt was stolen and sunk near Bermuda 3 years ago. Turned out the owner paid his captain to scuttle the boat...

 

[sandspur1966]

As tragic as the Joe Cool story was, it was 4 years ago and even THAT story debunked modern pirate mythology. The perpetrators were a moron and a whacko conspiracy theorist who robbed a walmart in arkansas for 90k and tried to get to Cuba! Seriously, when caught they tried to use piracy as a cover story. So similar to CA it involved armed morons not swashbucklers. There have however, been 40,000 or so gun murders in the US and countless (1 every 8 seconds according to fBI stats) armed robberies that have NOTNING to do with boats SINCE that incident.

So i think it is interesting how many comments on how i offhandedly characterized the weapon i keep (colt firearms M1911a1 .45 caliber issued in 1985, the second to last year before we switched to the Berretta m9 by the way) and some wisecracks about my possible civil war service and nothing about the DATA driven facts of gun violence?

Basically you are 10,000 times more likely to be killed by an angry idiot, with a chip on his shoulder, driving around in traffic than you are to be killed sleeping peacably on your boat in the chesapeake.

Lets be grownups and just tell poor PeterK the truth, that his gun choice aboard should be a personal one and probably mirror his gun choice ashore and stop window-dressing the issue with fairytales about NEEDING protection from modern day blackbeards and adolescent, swaggering gun talk about what may or may not have happened to someone else and what WE may or may not do if it happened to us.

The advice to get educated on the law and if he decides to go with a weapon... get expert training is great advice.

 

[hyperfishing]

Pascal: "I recently read Turning the Tide, good read, especially when you are anchored in Norman!"

That book left out the part where Carlos laundered most of his billions through a certain bank branch, processed at the headquarters located in another country where I was the key Yen & Swiss Francs trader, and wondering why this branch was competing in CHF volumes with very large multinational corporations. <gg>

I had no idea what was going on, but I requested a transfer to the Bahamas "to be closer to this great client". The bank wisely, and thankfully, refused to send me there, wanting me to go to Singapore instead! But I quit because my transfer to the Bahamas was denied. Now I work for another big financial firm.

Once captured, Carlos later provided the testimony about Mr. N in Panama ( paid him off to permit use of his airspace by drug planes) that justified the U.S. invasion of Panama.

But, back to the question of piracy. If anyone cares to search through various gofast forums, there are a number of personal stories of encounters with suspected pirates, or sad stories of people from Florida boating alone, in powerful gofasts or center consoles, that disappear and their boats are found 100+ miles away in disarray and empty of fuel. As recently as 2007 several banks refused to finance/insure certain gofast brands, because mere theft was so high, typically for the same reason, or running illegals which is also very lucrative.

I think most Hat owners are safe from this type of danger, the drug/illegals runners are typically interested in stealing very fast gofasts/center consoles. But, why take a chance? USCG has permitted the addition of courses and training/certification in small arms for licensed captains. That is on my to do list.

The Bahamas is used to vessels carrying weapons, and has standard weapon check in and out procedures for foreign vessels. I heard of another guy who checked in his chrome plated forty five, can't remember which country, but the police station "lost" that one. <gg>

Several cruising sail boaters in isolated areas have also met their demise or fended off crooks, merely search sailnet for "weapons" posts. Lots of good info there on weapon check in/out procedures in different nations.

 

[rsmith]

Desprate times breed desprate people. Rich people traveling to impoverished areas are one big target. To deny that and say it dosent happen is disengenous and just plain stupid. The best advice is not to put yourself and crew at risk in the first place.