Marine Maint Price Increases - A Rant

[Joeship]

you nailed it Genesis , what is going on in this country with labor is self induced by the unions greed and the US not using it owns resources.

 

[(Nobody You Know)]

We need another Reagan type "great communicator", we were on our way down then and he led us out of it. Everyone since him have been idiots. I just don't see anyone coming to the national stage that has the moxie to lead this nation. Just a bunch panderers who want power. The Dems were talking big smack about changing things, now they have the power, but they sure are quite now that they got what they wanted. I think we need some new power brokers, I am tired of voting for the lesser of evils. I want to be able to vote "FOR" somebody instead of "against" the obvious idiot.

you are basically right. But unfortunatlely much did not happen during the Regan Admn. (And I was and still am a big fan of the Gipper). Gridlock was the main culpret in preventing Regan from advancing the many wonderful programs he fought for.

I have no doubt that all of us are somewhat shocked by the incredible increses in commodity prices over the past couple of years. And things don't seem to be getting any better. I am sorry to say that all great dynisties lasted only about 200 years (we don't speak latin or Greek). If it helps to understand just the tip of the iceburg we started out as a "republic" around 1776. But in the process of becoming more of a "democracy" we like other great nations of past have succomed to "mob rule".

You may think this is far fetched or even silly, but this is exactly how the federal government has moved in and assumed responsibility for YOUR health. Health care is now the single most higest expenditure of your collected tax dollars. (That's why there is no more federal funding for ICW dredging or beach "renourshment"). I'm talking about "cradle-to-the-grave" care by the U.S. Gov. complements of the US taxpayer.

The bottom line as I see it is that, in a global economy, the American tax payer and corporation has an overhead problem. One that 3rd world nations do not have. The lack of freedom is also another characteristic synonomous with these countries. The good news is that the more liberty a citizenry enjoys, the more wealty the country. Let's hope it continues.

And while we are all degressing from yachting on this thread, we can do ourdselves and our economy a great service by stop punishing "victimless" crimes. What I'm saying is that what one chooses to "snort, shoot-up, inhale, inject, etc. in the privacy of one's own home is NOBODY ELSE'S BUSINESS. I only go here because it represents an enormous waste of the taxpayers dollars (I only use a little wine and, sometimes, Old Charter, FYI).

At this time there is little else you can do except:
1) Get the best tax accountant you can find.
2) Get the best financial planner you can find.
3) Raise immortal hell with your Congressman and Senator to cut government spending.

It doesen't bother me in the least if I can raise my standard of living by buying (lower cost) products made in China or Tiawan. I'm hardly sorry for the Detroit union worker who probably shops a Wal-Mart when he gets off work and has a house full of gadgetry also probably made in China.

And believe it or not, as Karl alluded to, we have 5 time the oil reserves as Saudi Arabia!!

This gets my blood boiling

But hey, let's be optimistic. It's a new year. Just follow steps 1, 2, and 3.

 

[thoward]

oil refineries, not one new one has been built in the US in 35 years.

That was the big reason for the drastic increase in fuel costs. Supply/demand, if they can not keep up with demand then the prices will go up.

What is wrong with environmental controls? We have poluted the environment enough. The company gets to rape the land/water then file bankruptsy and leave the American tax payer to pay the clean up.

 

[Boss Lady]

I remember someone said that when Ford shut down a couple plants last year that all the employees are still on the payroll at full pay, like 20,000 workers due to the union contract. I am wondering how Ford will survive. Being from the South, I have never been in favor of unions, but I did not realize that they had become so overbearing. I remember when the St. Joe Paper company closed due to a union strike years ago. The owner told them they were at the break even point and he just kept the company going just to keep the community alive. Well no one believed him and when they went on strike, he closed the doors. Anyone from the Panhandle knows how that affected the local economy. You are right Karl, business will go down the path of least resistance and highest profit. I grew up in kind of the same household environment that you did, we had a little more than most of my friends families, we actually had a color tv in 1965, LOL and a 70 foot Chris Craft. I have said this before, we have no poor people in the US, we have those who have less, just go overseas to about any other country and you will find the real "poor", try Haiti or Honduras as an example. If you do not have a car, tv, or phone and there is nothing in your refrigerator, maybe you might qualify. Labor is a commodity just like steel is, and is driven by the laws of supply and demand, if someone will work for less how long do you think you will keep your job? America has always had a supply of cheap labor throughout its history, that is what has always driven our economy, look at the Irish, Italian and other big influxes that occurred. The new immigrants took the low wage jobs to survive, and business reaped the rewards. combine that with high production methods and it allowed the US to dominate. We have lost that capability and the government has told us that we will dominate technology now and maintain our position. Well the chinese and indians have be attending western universities for decades and they are hot on our heels when it comes to software and other technologies. The cell phone industry has been hiring Indian and Pakistani RF engineers for the last 10 years for less than half of what they used to pay Americans. Call centers have migrated overseas as well, technology means that it can be anywhere in the world. Bye Bye good paying jobs. Most American workers are on a declining pay scale and don't even know it, with every factory that closes, there is an ever larger labor pool, which leads to more people than jobs, so who ever will work for less wins. The entitlement mentality is killing us, and even worse is the that everyone thinks they should be living the lifestyles of the rich and famous. My parents had money, I did not so when I enlisted in the Army my lifestyle became what I could earn. I lived on a meager salary during my Army career, drove older vehicles and lived in a modest house, and I lived comfortably. We never took vacations, couldn't afford it. When I got into business and finally did well, I bought my wife a nice new car, BMW 745. It took us quite a while to become familiar with it. What amazes me is how many people who obviously can't afford even a new car, know more about that very expensive BMW than I did, I get approached by one of them almost every time I stop for gas. Now I have a 750. They learn about how rich people live and then live frustrated lives when they can't achieve it. I never looked at things I couldn't afford, what would be the point. oh, I knew about them since I grew up with them. I was driving a 450 SL Mercedes at 16. But I never made that kind of money in the Army so I had to adjust. I shopped at the used car lots because that was what I could afford. But our current culture teaches them about all this stuff. Joe Six Pack is in for a rude awakening, things are going to get worse for him as wages continue to decline. Wages in the Pacific Rim are at about 20 cents an hour. We have a long way to go down before we are competitive. There will be less McMansions in their futures.

 

[Passages]

Hey (Nobody),
Good post but you lost me on the victimless drug use.

Anyone who has had to deal with physical addiction knows that it tears up careers, families & communities. If the user does not have health insurance, guess who gets to pick up the tab - that would be you, the honorable taxpayer.

 

[Genesis]

Nobody is correct on the drug use issue.

We spend tens of billions annually - vastly more than drug use costs society - trying to stop it. And we do nothing other than cost the economy tens of billions more through permanently impairing someone with a medical problem from ever holding a good job again (just try to get that job with a felony drug record.)

But - this is not the major issue here.....

BTW, the idea that "rich CEOs" are overpaid is nonsense. Guess who owns those companies? You and I, through our 401ks and IRAs. You don't like the pay? Vote to change it. You CAN, if you can get others to agree with you.

But beware if you do - you may tank your own investment portfolio if you can't entice the same talent for less! Then what?

And by the way, if you took the ENTIRE pay of most of these CEOs and gave it equally to the workers, it would amount to a few cents an hour increase in their pay. It simply isn't relavent.

But its a great "shouting point" for those who have wealth envy and hatred for those who have achieved.

Let me point one thing out - have you ever been given a job by a poor man?

I haven't. My entire working life, when I was employed by others, it was always rich people who employed me. So exactly how is it in the "poor person's" interest to get rid of, or damage, rich people?

 

[Boss Lady]

Hey Karl, the media is very effective at demonizing the successful. At one time in our culture most people wanted to be entrepenures. Then someone told them the path to success was get an education and get a good job. Well you can make a living at a job, but a small business offers real opportunity. But business means taking risks and not many are willing to roll the bones today. They are taught to take the safe path. Then when you don't follow the herd they can't stand it. But then you couldn't be a good party member if you lost you status as a worker, now could you? I guess the communist mentality is stronger than we think. I have lost a couple of friends since becoming successful, their jealosy has eaten them alive. I have been totally stunned by some of their comments. My real friends still root for my continued success.

The demonizing of drugs has led to the multi-billion dollar failed enforcement policy, created a huge bureacracy, corruption at all levels of our government and other governments, a property crime problem of immense proportions to pay for street drugs, the drug sub-culture has led to the debasement of our society. I am for making them legal and if someone wants to cook their brains go ahead, we will only lose one generation instead of several. Way too many people have a stake in keeping them illegal. Just like back home they used say about dry counties that the between the Baptist and the Boot leggers it would stay a dry county. We could cut billions from the federal budget overnight if we legalize it and tax it. Street prices would fall to nothing taking away the profit incentive. People wouldn't have to steal to pay for it. Crime would come down on all fronts. The DEA budget let alone the taxes could pay for real drug education and treatment programs. America has had drug abuse problems for our entire history. Cocaine was a huge problem in the early part of the 20th century. That is how Coca Cola made a fortune, it was over the counter medicine, now it is a soft drink. I don't have all the answeres but what we have been doing for 40 years hasn't worked so far. I am for trying something new.

 

[Maynard Rupp]

If you really want a reality check about US labor problems, auto industry problems, or a serious dose of more useless people than you can stomach, try living in my town. I will bet that all of you would agree with Karl, and the other rants above if you spent a month or two in Detroit. This city will go bankrupt soon and most of the citizens can't even spell bankrupt. You can't imagine the fast food rappers, old tires, and household refuse blowing around, or the boarded up busineses. The few stores that remain are encircled by a 9' high fence. Does anybody care. These folks sure don't.

 

[Genesis]

I grew up 25 miles south of Detroit and my Dad worked as an accountant for a union-shop glazing business in the city......

 

[Freebird]

What is going on with marine metals and paints?

I was in W Marine today and walked out with a serious case of sticker shock. Brass/SS Rod holders, up 25% from last year. Sacrificial zinc anodes up 50% and $225 for a gallon of bottom paint.

Have metal commodity prices really gone up that much or is WM getting greedy? If the latter I'll be doing a lot more mail order with Defender and boatfix.

Hey SAMS - want to expand into general maintenance items?

Scott (boatsb) and I went to a wholesale marine supply place in Cocoa a couple of weeks ago and he bought zincs he turned out not to need when we hauled his boat. We noted huge price increases there as well.

I told him at the rate these things were going up, he should consider them as a high yield investment rather than returning them!

 

[Trojan]

Regan was only the beginning. You can say what you want. But the real fall was Clinton signing the FREE TRADE BILL. Every farmer is loosing his butt and you can't blame the unions, they have no unions. Unless you are one of those factory rats you can not comment on there pay. Union or not there jobs SUCK. You can say the same about the jocks and TV people. Why are they paid so much? LETS FACE IT, You can not trade with a country that has no real pay scale. Bottom line until the pay scale of all the countries we trade with, equalize with ours. Its going to hurt every one of us and it sure is not going to be an up swing it must go down first. But how far down will it go. It's not going happen over night in ether direction. These are the good life times enjoy them while you can. I think the great depression will be a rich period compared what is coming. I was going to sell my farm, but not now. I think my children will need it to survive. I think we have been sold out big time. LOOK AROUND OPEN YOUR EYES. How many homes are for sail? Unemployment is down only because it ran out and there not on the list anymore. Name ONE bank that is not owned by a foreign country. There is only one and I'm not so sure about that now. That was 5 years ago. Call me what you want, But I think the shi--s going to hit the fan and its not to far off. How many of your friends are out of work or changed jobs? Why can't collage grades find work or are working for nothing. I hope I'm wrong. The fat cat need not worry.

BILL

 

[Freebird]

Now Bill, you know the Clintonistas weren't all that bad. Ole Billy Bob made me a ton of money with the assault weapon ban and the Brady Bunch Bill in '94!

All the good ole' boys went out and bought up all sorts of machine guns and stuff and realized they needed a safe. Almost makes me feel guilty for being a Republican.

Hey, what ever happened to Monaca? Have you seen the price of Cuban cigars lately?

 

[doc g]

I am not commenting on the political issues here. I was just out West skiing and saw an article about about a vacation home that had all the copper pipes ripped out of it and was left with water pouring out of the doors. They called a plumber to fix the problem ,who reported that no pipes had burst at all.......there were no pipes left in the house!!!.....................Pat

 

[CARL GUZMAN]

You guys left out one of the biggest problems now happening...INSURANCEThey are makeing more than ever now ..It's turned in to a culture of coruption..the higher gas prices just gave every big company a way to justify raising there prices..and the hurricanes gave the insurance companies there way to justify raising there prices and raise they did DOUBLEIn most areas

My idea is to turn them into an Insurance Union and regulate them ...the banking industry has credit unions I use them and they are cheap and no stock holders...

Just add up how many Insurance there are ? :Home ,Wind ,Flood, car ,health, workers comp, general liability, builders risk, commercial, boat, and they keep coming up with more types of insurance..feel free to add to the list...

So when the other countries raise there hourly they will still have us beat with lower prices because they don't have to pay any insurance

 

[(Nobody You Know)]

Hey (Nobody),
Good post but you lost me on the victimless drug use.

Anyone who has had to deal with physical addiction knows that it tears up careers, families & communities. If the user does not have health insurance, guess who gets to pick up the tab - that would be you, the honorable taxpayer.

Self destruction through drug abuse, while it affects love ones, does not create a “victim” as in a theft, or worse yet murder. You are talking about a person who refuses to take individual responsibility for his or her behavior and life style, and how it affects others close by. Likewise for any “significant” other, hey, don’t make babies by a dope addict!

I think we all know of the evils of drug abuse. And I think that ALL of us have been in some way touched (or scarred) by drug abuse. I too have seen it’s destruction in my own family.

The problem I have with the War On Drugs is that it is, and will always be, money down the drain. You (and your government) are not going to stop illegal drug use and abuse. If they want it, they ARE going to get it! Insurance? Even if the user had health insurance I doubt it would pay for drug abuse related illnesses. The recent study done by the Rand Corp. proved that treatment, counseling, and therapy renders far more bang for the buck than our (political) war on drugs.

Widespread increased efforts by law enforcement on all levels has done little to stop drug abuse. But on the other hand has significantly driven up the street price, which in turn, has manifested itself in an alarming increase in crime – particularly crimes of theft where perpetrators must have cash to support an increasingly expensive habit (lock your doors, and hide that Tom-Tom and Notebook PC). And the rewards for successful pushers are even greater! Now YOU (and I) are picking up the tab for over crowded jails crammed with people who possessed stuff that was no threat to OUR INDIVIDUAL LIBERTIES! And in the meantime, we are running out of room for the bastard who severely abused some child and is in dire need of incarceration! The arrest and incarceration of the guy who sells the stuff to minors is, of course, withstanding.

If a guy wants to die while frying is brains on cocaine I say good adios. Frankly, this American is tired of paying for the policing of the stuff and their (the user’s) own irresponsibility.

“The war on drugs is a war of stupid people against themselves.”
Heather
WSB, Cox Radio, Inc., Atlanta, GA

 

[(Nobody You Know)]

I remember when the St. Joe Paper company closed due to a union strike years ago. The owner told them they were at the break even point and he just kept the company going just to keep the community alive. Well no one believed him and when they went on strike, he closed the doors. Anyone from the Panhandle knows how that affected the local economy.

Chris,

well yea, but not exactly like the Eastern Airline strike of the early 90's, which was the straw that finally broke the back of a great airline. I well remember hiring a former eastern mechanic whom all his life worked on planes, and under the control of his local union. He couldn't begin to keep up with my guys working on truck trailers. Eventually (and sadly) I had to let him go. The guy broke into tears. But damit, I had bills to pay.

You seem to know a lot about that paper plant in Port St. Joe. I've got good news. While the town suffered briefly after it's closing, it soon began to boom as is with all other coastal panhandle towns. There is now a really nice marina adjacent to the site of the old (smelly) plant.

Do you recall the gazebo out on the water next to the town boat ramp? The "Admiral" and I were married there 18 years ago! Just me, her, the Magistrate (and the automatic shutter on my 35mm as witness). Then it was lunch at the Gibson in Appalachicola followed by a bottle of Taylor (really cheap) champaign (which was purchased at Beacon Hill Bar - we still have the bottle) and a brief Honeymoon in Mexico Beach (which BTW is still ongoing ).

Life's been good to me, better than I deserve.

 

[Starman]

Ok I have to jump in and give my 2 pennies worth.

While drugs may be considered a victimless crime by some the fact is that drug use probably accounts for over 60 percent of the other crimes being committed. People will steal, rob kill ofr a buck to get a buzz.

Some people want to legalize the weed. But MJ is a depressant , just as alcohol is. Having to drive our highways with drunks who kill is bad enough without adding in the folks who could legally buy drugs and then get behind the wheel of a car.

Have you ever looked into the eyes of a person you knew was going to die, then did, while you were holding them ............who was hit by a drunk driver ?

I have............You see, I wore a badge for about 8 years both as a city cop and county deputy.

This is what I know:

The real problems we have today started within the home and how parents raised thier children. What generation(s) dropped the ball ?

 

[(Nobody You Know)]

But MJ is a depressant , just as alcohol is. Having to drive our highways with drunks who kill is bad enough without adding in the folks who could legally buy drugs and then get behind the wheel of a car.

Then Paul, we can't have it both ways. Either outlaw the whole gammut (booze and drugs), or legalize it all - no double standard. Fact is, As long as they are going to do drugs anyway, let's stop tying up courts and jails, and turn to treatment. We already know it works.

As for the law, it should be illegal for anyone to drive while under the influence of any "controlled" substance.

You are to be commended for you dedication to law enforcement!

 

[Starman]

NUK,

To be honst, I am not really sure what the solution should be.I have seen the hardships that drug users have caused for themselves, thier families and the innocent bystander.

I suppose I am , like you and most other people, very protective of my family and therefore protray myself sometimes as the no mercy for the law breaker types, especially when they hurt others, be it because of drugs , alcohol or other reasons.

It is sad that we have this problem and america will spend more on these criminals than we will on helping those who need it most, like the homeless, the elderly or the sick and inflicted.

I have been on other message boards where these type of conversations seem to get out of hand really fast. It is a pleasure to speak and voice opinions where respect is given, and recieved.

Thank you

 

[Passages]

Well, this thread took some unexpected twists. From the high price of zinc to societies problems...

we can't have it both ways. Either outlaw the whole gammut (booze and drugs), or legalize it all - no double standard. !

Nobody, Why does it need to be all or nothing? Do you really think the US would be better off if we sold pot, crack, meth & heroin like cigerettes? You might be able to sway me regarding pot, but I don't see how easiler access to hard drugs can make the country better. Have you ever walked through the streets of Amsterdam? I have. While you don't have to worry about street crime, the high number of visible, strung out addicts is both alarming and depressing. I think it's fair to say there are few, if any, "casual" users of crack & opiates. These substances are just too powerful and lead to rapid dependency.

I agree that the convential 'war on drug' is a losing proposition and a kid caught with an ounce of weed should not to be jailed. I also agree the way we raise our children and the resouces put into prevention & treatment should be improved. But I will not agree that increased access to all drugs is the best remedy for this epidemic.

That's all I want to say on this. I'd really rather talk about boats.