Crime

[rangerscott275]

I don't know about everyone else but I think I get a false sense of security on my boat as if I'm in this peaceful, euphoric environment where I am free from the 'normal' fears / stresses associated with land-life. Just wanted to share a quick word of warning as I was broken into this weekend while I was on-board the boat!

I had 1 sliding lock (seats in hole in floor) on the bottom of each of my side sliding doors. If you really pull those doors hard, the slide latch type lock will either unseat, or rip itself out through the teak floorboard. My marina has a secured entrance, secured gate to pier and my door to boat was locked so i had never really thought too much about it. Friday night I watched tv in salon until 1am or so and then went downstairs to bed. I was up saturday morning around 8ish and noticed that the side sliding door was open and ajar! I was confused as I don't use side doors during the winter and I had it (I thought) secured and locked but figured it must of somehow worked itself open b/c of the winter snow / wind / cold over the night. A few hours into the morning I went up to grab my laptop and realized it was missing....it was located right beside the door! it then dawned on me that I had been broken into....and that was why the door was open and off it's runner!

I think what happened is that someone knew that I wasn't at the boat all that often and picked this night (or should I say early AM) to come clean me out. Like alot of you...I have pretty much everything I own on the boat. i think they entered the door and came and and saw a bunch of my bags and whatnot on the main salon floor and just grabbed the laptop (and later discovered portable GPS & VHF) and took off....at least they were kind enough to try to close the door some!

I spent the weekend installing multiple locks....new brass plates on bottom to catch slide type lock, key eyes on top and unfortunately, traditional hasps & padlocks mounted outside each door. I hated to do it b/c nothing looks uglier on the side of a beautiful hatteras than a steel hasp and brass lock hanging there but I think that if the burglar returns to finish the job, hopefully this will dissuade him. I also put jewler's locks on the 4 sliding windows. I have an alarm system on the boat but it hasn't worked (or I don't know how to work it) since I bought the boat. that is this weekend's project...to figure it out and get it operational again if possible.

Anyway, just figured a little horror story might serve as a good warning to others that maybe take security as lightly as I had. Things could have been alot worse for me...either could have not been there and been cleaned out completely...or more likely, had been passed out on the couch in salon and met burglar face to face which could have been really awful....thinking about it now, maybe having that laptop right by the door saved my life as the burglar didn't need to come down into the rest of the boat and look around for more! Kind of like a bad case of trick or treat!

Anyway...don't forget to thoroughly secure your boats!

 

[Pascal]

sorry to hear this...

soon after i got the 53, i added a simple hook to the sliding side doors. No way to open the door with the hook on, short of ripping it out...

got a simple perko lock on the aft deck door, i'm sure anyone (except me) could pick that in a minute or less... glass windows (galley and saloon) have little tabs that flip up...

but if anyone wants to break in... it's not a lock or glass window that's gogng to stop them.. as least if the lock is easy, they won't cause any damage :-(

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Pascal is right. If they want in, they're gonna get in. All they have to do is break a window. So, all you can hope to do is deter them. Most burglars are looking for an easy score, so try to make your boat the last one on the dock that they want to mess with. It can't hurt to make sure it's locked up well.

And when I'm on board, I always take my 9mm with me (unless I'm going into Canada since they frown on that).

 

[rangerscott275]

I hated to put the exterior locks on....and my windows do have those flip tabs (as mentioned in another thread), so the jewlers locks were redundant....but I figured hopefully if a burglar were to re-approach the boat, they would see the new gear and pass along.....we'll see! You are both right however...if they want in bad enough, there is nothing much we can do. I figure having to crowbar off the hasp / locks & the necessity to break a window would hopefully be enough to dissuade them from wanting to make the noise & risk getting caught.

I was just thinking....if one were to take a coat hanger and push it through the sliding windows (there is plenty of wiggle room there)...they could easily flip up that little window tab and then slide them open & enter w/ out making any noise or disruption....jewler's locks do prevent that...just a thought

 

[Fanfare]

On the 1965-6 50MYs Hatteras put the same lock set, and the same key, on every boat. Guess they figured anyone who owned one would have the courtesy to leave the others alone! (Last time I checked, Sam's can sell you replacement keys.) I had a good locksmith change out both sliding door latches for German ones with real tumblers. Some years ago, so don't remember the manufacturer. Flip-up locks can be replaced by ones made for RVs that screw in to quiet vibrating cabinet doors. But if anybody really wants to get in they will. Good burglar alarms, with switches on lockers and motion sensors indoors are next defense. Again, a good locksmith can do wonders with installation and give excellent advice. That's what they do!

Jim Grove, Fanfare 196650MY

 

[Maynard Rupp]

Here in the Detroit area, the criminals aren't smart enough to know that a big boat may have something of value aboard. When you return from an outing you may find your car is gone from the parking lot and you have no way to get home. I guess those Florida hurricanes aren't so bad after all.

 

[MikeP]

The 9mm option is a good one but these older eyes prefer the 12 Ga Mossberg Mariner (second on this page

http://www.mossberg.com/pcatalog/Specpurp.htm.

It's loaded with three #7 shot light target loads for the run-of-the-mill intruders followed by two 00 magnum loads for those hard core types who are determined to meet their maker...

 

[Genesis]

I don't like #7 unless overpenetration of interior walls is a problem.

The standing rule for defensive use of lethal force is "never pull/draw a weapon unless you are justified in shooting to kill; if you are so justified then draw/pull, aim at the center of mass, and fire until the threat is no longer present."

 

[MikeP]

I concur completely with your assesment and frankly am not particularly fond of shotguns. I have considerably fondness and expertise with rifles having had the opportunity to tour lovely areas of SE Asia some years ago as an infantry rifle platoon leader. As we used to say, it was a great opportunity to visit exotic places, learn new customs, meet exciting local people...and kill them. (Hope that didn't offend anyone but, after all, that's what an army does.)

But rifles are mighty tough on the rest of the boat.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

You could use those frangible loads in your handgun if you are concerned about damaging the boat. But, I really don't care much about the boat while I am in a life or death confrontation with an intruder intent on killing me or my family. The boat can be replaced.

 

[ThirdHatt]

Is it just me/my boat or are the outer sliding glass salon windows always unlocked/vulnerable on the 53MY/58YF? Both the inner and outer glasses slide, so the little tab that flips down from the inside merely stops the inner glass from sliding. There is NOTHING to prevent the outer glass from sliding and allowing entry. I've noticed the same with the cockpit/master stateroom window on my 58YF. That was how I was going to break into my own boat if I ever somehow found myself locked out, but now that I am reading this thread I am concerned about others gaining unauthorized entry. At least the jewelers lock will lock them together. So, where's the best place to find those, and I assume it's not at the local jeweler!

 

[rangerscott275]

I got mine at lowes!

 

[ADaily3224]

I don't think you can win.

I leave my boat unlocked. My 37' was severely damaged by a thief a few years ago, as stated above, if they want to get in they will. My 36 was burglarized once too, it wasn't broken into because I didn't lock it. Every boat on the dock was broken into that particular night.
Since then I have bought some little red led flashing lamps. They can run off a pen light battery, your 12 volt system, a 9 volt, almost anything. They don't do anything but flash every few seconds, it seems to have done the trick, at least for now. I also have a couple timers that turn lights on and off at different times. It seems the break in's always take place just before lay-up in this part of the country. It's so dumb, everything is cleaned out of the boat, it's ready to be lifted and put inside, and that's when some fool invites himself aboard. No guns for me, in NY that's not to hot an idea.

Tony D

 

[Tom Ipock]

The shotgun works great only if someone is already aboard your boat - but if they have slipped up on you that bad, you have big problems anyway. When we cruise in the islands, we carry a high powered rifle (243) with scope (same as I use for deer hunting). At least if there is a problem coming, I can head it off long before a shotgun would do any good. I still have a short shotgun just in case I missed the invasion and they made it on board.
Tom

 

[Passages]

I'm probably going to draw some fire here - but I don't like guns on board.

First I am NOT anti-gun. At home I have a good collection of hunting & target shotguns, rifles & pistols. If warrented, I would be willing to use them defensively to protect family. On board, I have nothing more powerful than a flare gun.

The difference is weapon security and risk of unintended bodily harm on board. With 2 young inquisitive children, guests under some level of intoxication and the boat berthed in a high density population area, the risk unintended tragedy is too great.

I boat mostly in Southern New England. No piracy I'm aware of and other than an ocassional theft of fuel or electronics - not much crime. Maybe if I was going offshore I'd think differently.

Let's play out rangerscott's scenario if he confronted his buglar armed. He first would have ordered the bad guy to freeze & get down on the ground. Option 1 - bad guy complies, now what do you do? especially if you're alone? Bad guys will immediately begins sizing you up for weakness in order to get the gun away. Are you prepared for his next move? Option 2 - Bad guy does not comply, instead throws the electronics in the water and runs for the dock. Do you shoot? You're pissed, but does it justify blowing this guys gray matter all over your neighbor's boat? Option 3 - He's armed too - someone - could be you - will be dead in seconds. All bad options. The right option would be not to confront but to turn on lights, lay on the horn and do not place yourself between the crook and his escape route. Get a discription as he's hightailing down the dock and call the cops.

I know this is way off Hatteras topic - but this is hot button for me. I'm sure there are those who will point out the flaws in my thinking but there it is.

 

[captddis]

The outer glass should have a stop screwed up into the upper window track.
The factory used a piece of wood. The wood held moisture and rotted the frames, a lot of them were removed and sometimes not replaced. I use starboard or the like.

 

[hatteras45]

I used to shark fish alot, carried a 410 snake charmer with hollow point slug shot. I dont shark fish all that often anymore and I dont have any crime aboard either. I WILL keep the peace aboard my boat.

 

[Walter P]

Interesting subject.. About 6 years ago my last 43 MY was broken into while berthed at a very nice facility in South Florida. As per my usual routine, I would take the boat to Fla from NJ for the winter in the fall and would have amoung my "stuff" a 12 Ga shotgun (Rem 870 pump, short barrel riot type) and a 9mm semi-auto handgun (Browning Hi-Power) . The boat was always left secured, to the extent that they may be. See other postings regarding various locks etc.

Upon arriving back to the boat from NJ in late April (I was gone one week), I climbed aboard and found the overhead electronics panel destroyed and all the electronics gone. My greatest fear however was that the door leading from the aft deck into the salon was ajar. My first thought was - O my God they probably found my guns and took them also. I was not concerned about the value of the electronics or the guns, but rather to what purpose those stolen guns would be employed. I called the Marina office and the police. Dade county responded in a timely manner and we checked out the boat together. I did not enter the boat before the police arrived so as to not disturb anything. Well guess what.....they did not enter the boat other than the aft deck and we surmised it was because I had a small LED red lite flashing on a battery charger and at night in the dark, they probably mistook it for some sort of alarm and left. (with the loot from the aft deck)

The moral of this story is very simple - while I believe very strongly in the
Second Amendment of the Bill of Rights regarding guns, I also believe that with every right comes a responsibility. We have a responsibility to safeguard our firearms so that they do not fall into the wrong hands. As a result of my experience, I no longer leave guns aboard when I am not there.

Regarding shooting a burgler - be absolutely sure you are in danger and it's not just some kid out for kicks before you shoot. You may get a jury to say you were within your rights but for the rest of your life you must live with the horrible scene in your head of what you did to save "stuff". Not worth it.

Walt

 

[Genesis]

Florida's Castle Doctrine has been extended to vessels, RVs, and conveyances (your CAR) by STATUTE.

In addition if you are arrested you are entitled to recover all of your fees and costs of defense if you prevail, including loss of your income if any.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...TM&Title=->2005->Ch0776->Section 013#0776.013

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...TM&Title=->2005->Ch0776->Section 032#0776.032

If someone breaks into my boat (or home) in Florida by force (e.g. breaks a window, jimmies a door, etc) I am fully justified in shooting them where they stand - end of discussion, full-stop.

You break into a boat in this state, you better hope that the owner or other authorized party on board is not armed. If he is, and he decides to shoot you in the center of mass until you are no longer a threat, his biggest worry is going to be cleaning up the mess.

There ain't gonna be none of that "judged by 12" in this state any more. You still have to worry about being carried by six, which is why you don't threaten with a firearm. IF you have reason to draw it - use it.

In Rangerscott's case he does not yell "Freeze!" That's just plain stupid unless you're a cop with backup.

If I am armed and someone breaks into my boat there's gonna be none of that "FREEZE!" or "LIE DOWN ON THE FLOOR" nonsense. He ain't gonna get the chance to try to get the firearm away from me. Its going to be very simple - BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG-CLICK!

"Nice group Daddy!"

I will have no problem living with myself AT ALL in this situation. It is not possible for me to determine the true intent of a person who forcibly breaks into my home or vessel and I have every right to assume they intend to kill me or rape my kid. Nobody gets a free crack at her. That's non-negotiable.

(BTW, justified use of deadly force in Florida also now also extends to any situation in which its use stops the imminent commission of a forcible felony. You no longer have a duty to retreat in Florida even outside of your home, boat or vehicle. The bad guys are on notice in this state since the signing of this law - you pull that garbage and someone sees you do it that has a lawfully-owned weapon, you're toast.)

Be aware that this does not necessarily apply to any state other than Florida! If you're going to have firearms around for defensive purposes you need to know what the law is WHERE YOU ARE regarding the use of same.

PS: I am not stating that I am or will be armed - now or at any other given point in time. The value of these laws is not that they allow you to shoot people committing crimes. It is that they make the bad guys aware of the fact that you can do so with impunity, and that you might. The uncertainty this creates for the crooks is precisely the point and is where the deterrent value comes from - whether you personally choose to be armed or not. I am a strong supporter of this sort of legal environment and proof of its efficiency in reducing crime is found in our crime statistics - since "must issue" for concealed carry was passed here in Florida violent crime has dropped tremendously - simply because the bad guys can no longer count on their victims being unable to fight back.

PPS: The overpenetration issue isn't a concern to me with regards to holes in my own hull. It is, however, a very real concern in a marina where someone may be sleeping in the next boat over. Consider that carefully; shooting an innocent by accident due to injudicious selection of ammunition will land you in plenty of hot water and violates the first rule of firearms handling - always know what's "downrange" of your weapon. Safety slugs in a pistol solve that problem nicely.

PPPS: Before you think that a rifle will "repel boarders" before they get on board, go out into federal waters and try shooting something floating in the water from the deck at any reasonable distance (even at "close range" - say, 25 yards.) That should disabuse you of the value of your rifle for such a use. Even a shotgun with 00 buckshot is almost impossible to use with any degree of accuracy on a moving boat unless you're at anchor on a dead-calm day. If you are boarded by true pirates they probably want your boat to run drugs and you're in deep kimchee simple due to being outnumbered; you'll kill some of them, but odds are they're going to kill you too - whether you resist or not. In that situation you take as many of them with you as possible. Also, be aware that outside of the US your 2nd Amendment Rights are worth ZERO and undeclared firearms can and will land you in the hoosegow in many nations.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Interesting discussion...I have to say I have just recently began locking my boat, mostly under pressure from the folks whose pier I keep it at. There have been some breakins lately in that neighborhood, mostly teenagers looking for a place to drink and fool around. I've never been a believer in locking things that people can break into until lately, but I've changed my mind. I think most thieves are looking for an opportunity. An unlocked door or window IS an opportunity. I didn't lock my convertibles prior to this, feeling that a soft-top car is too easy to cut into with a knife. I don't agree with that anymore- a locked car is a locked car, and someone who will open an unlocked door is not necessarily the same person who will force entry to a car or cut through a convertible top. Same with a boat. A locked door will discourage a lot of people. And I think the flashing LED idea is a good one. For all they know it's hooked to a cell-phone burglar alarm- which isn't a bad idea either.
Guns? well, no thanks. I've seen too many people shot by mistake, by folks who would much rather have not shot them. But that's just my opinion.