Crime

[Genesis]

That's it.

I like the SS shotgun approach (with a legal but short barrel) BUT they're hell to secure on board. A pistola is simple - if you're in a state where CCW is legal you CCW it, and at night its under your pillow. If you're not where you can legally CCW it then things get MUCH more complicated.

Nobody, however, can argue with the sound of a pump-action shotgun being racked. That's a universal "you're in the wrong place at the wrong time buddy!" sound and if its not met with immediate retreat by whoever hears it you can safely assume they intend to do you in. Nobody mistakes that sound for anything else.....

I rarely travel outside of Florida with my boat. If you travel interstate (or internationally) and intend to be armed on board please make sure you understand all the legal requirements. In some countries you must declare both arms and ammunition and your rounds will be physically counted on entry and exit - and God help you if any rounds are missing. In others you must check the arms with customs (and high-value small arms often go "missing".) In still others you must have a secure storage location and they must remain there during your time in their waters. Then there are state and local jurisdictions (e.g. Chicago) where its flatly illegal to have in your possession any handgun - period - without a license which is impossible to obtain unless you're a cop.

Violating firearms laws is a great way to not do any boating for a very long time. I am a strong proponent of firearms rights, but that does not extend to trying to "sneak" 'em where its not legal for me to have them in my possession. I instead take that sort of thing (whether I have a right of self-defense) into consideration before I decide to spend my hard-earned money in a given state or nation...... that both makes me happier and keeps me out of trouble with the law.

 

[Mike36c]

Well said Karl, In the Bahamas I declare EVERYTHING to the customs folk. It doesn't cost a dime and I have never been given a hard time. A local mate, who was hired by a friend in the Bahamas a fews years back stole his on board handgun. Thank God he declared it and notified the police or HIS butt would have been eating fish head soup at Fox Hill for a few years

 

[spartonboat1]

Re: Crime/Canada Customs?

I have no experience with weapons and Candadian customs. But over the past few years they have become unforgiving. While heading to Toronto on software mission, one of my associates "smarted around" about teaching Canadians about software. Next, "out of the car", and two hours later banned from Canada for five years no less.

Also, as far are radios are concerned, scanners are not allowed in Canada I don't believe, as a group of "train chasers", of which my father was one, were headed over the border and had their scanners confiscated (about 4 years ago).

So I would be interested to hear if anyone knows what their regs are on weapons on board. This is a potential issue in the Great Lakes, esp. I would think in the Detroit River.

 

[67hat34c]

Mike, your comment about keeping a gun hidden in the head reminds me of a story i read about a businessman who was car jacked. he was in his Lexus LS400 when he was jacked. the car jackers put him in the trunk. one jacker drove the car and the other one followed in another car. they decided that they better pull over and check to see if the man in the trunk had a cell phone, when they opened the trunk the car owner came out guns blazing, killing one jacker and wounding the other who fled in the chase car. the man said in the article that he kept his hand guns hidden in his trunk for just that reason.

 

[Avenger]

Another advantage of the 12ga. that I forgot to mention...

For those who are concerned about the use of lethal force, there are a variety of "less lethal" loads available. Rubber balls, bean bags and the like that are supposed to be less likely to kill.

I'm sure we can debate endlessly just how effective this actually is, and how to best employ the "safe" rounds. All rubber rounds, or a beanbag load for the first one or two, then follow up with somthing more effective?

I'd think that there is still a fair chance of killing someone with a projectile from a shotgun at close range, but if you're really concerned, it's an option. Also, naturally, check legality where you're going to be.

 

[Passages]

The Genesis link to Florida Regs was interesting.
As a New England Boater, much of my cruising takes me to Massachusetts, I thought I'd Google the laws on self defense there.

BOY, they're extreme even for me. Thanks to Ted Kennedy and his liberal democrat buddies, Mass must be the most restrictive state in the country. Unless you are licensed in that state, you may not possess (or buy or own) pistols, shotguns, rifles, air rifles, mace or pepper spray. In defending your home, you do not have a duty to retreat, but you are prohibited from using deadly force to protect property. If you use a weapon and the police are called you will be arrested regardless of circumstance. I read on one site a manadatory 1 year jail sentence for POSSESSION of an unlicensed handgun.

Karl, can I assume you will not be visiting MA anytime soon?

 

[Nonchalant1]

Interesting reading. I'm a gun owner and my son is in law enforcement, but I leave my guns at home. On the boat, I have 2 flare pistols with the 3-rack of spare flares. One in my flare kit, one in the stateroom drawer. I guess I thought I'd risk having to put out a fire or needing that second shot faster as the tradeoff so that I don't have to worry about Canada, Michigan, Tennessee, etc., laws. Sounds like I'm one of the few here.

For you guys that do carry guns, when you cross a state line, do you research those states in advance and pre-register or something?

Doug

 

[SKYCHENEY]

For those who are interested, this is a great all-inclusive site to check out all of the gun laws in each state:

www.packing.org

 

[Genesis]

Karl, can I assume you will not be visiting MA anytime soon?

You can assume correctly.

I also make a point of not buying anything from businesses there and telling them why when I have other, competitive alternatives available.

 

[Geoff58yf]

This has been a great thread to follow yet one area no one touched was international travel with guns aboard.
For our first trip from FLA to calif we had the yard and and interior guy build a hidden, spring loaded (with a saftey catch) compartment as part of the main salon headliner. It looked just like part of the overhead seams. Inside we had a 12ga and 2 hand guns. Our concern was cruising by the "gun boat states" like Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala and pirates. The other concern (and you must take very very seriously), is your choice to take weaponry into one of these countries. Declare it and your in trouble and not declare it and your in REAL trouble. As this trip went, we had no use for the guns, and never really felt threatend. The worry about having guns aboard (undeclared) wasnt worth the sweat. Now fast fwd to trip #2, FtLauderdale to San Francisco. My boating friend came up with what proved to be a great solution. First we got two of those leather, tequila shot glass bandeleros that you wear over your shoulder and chest, then got two 12ga FLARE PISTOLS and painted them flat black. Painted the shells flat black too and put them in the bandeleros, basically - from a slight distance- creating the look of an armed to the teeth TV mexican bandidto. Off Roatan we were 'hailed" to stop by a really suspicious looking panga-like outboard boat with 3 guys aboard. We didnt slow and as they came alongside (parrallel to us) we went on deck with our pretend arsenel. It absolutley worked! they peeled off very quickly and dissapeared.
In Costa Rica the same thing happened with the same results. The good part is that everywhere we cleared customs, we could honestly say we did NOT have any guns aboard!
Just my 2cents worth of adventure stories..

 

[Passages]

The Frito Bandito with flare guns. I love it!

 

[OldHatt45]

Genesis,

I whole heartedly agree with your statements!

Many years ago I was told by a police officer, always fire a warning shot.
Even if it comes other than first. Sounds funny but in the NY/NJ area it is important.

OldHatt45

 

[NAN-PO 41]

Recently I was browsing through a sailboat magazine ( O K I already apologize for my momentary lapse of good judgement ) named Latitudes and Attitudes and came across an advertisement for a bushing that will convert your flare gun into a large caliber single shot pistol.
Interesting concept.
Fred

 

[mike]

Very interesting, I also remember years ago that you could purchase surplus military flare pistols that were made of bronze. We had one on our old Sea Scout boat back in the early 60’s, but I have had no luck in finding one. Anyone know what the commercial guys use?

 

[Trojan]

I have one of those brass flare guns. I thought I might just do that. I was going to say something on it yesterday. I also have a old Army spy type ink pen. That was military issue. It will hold 1, 38 cal. short. Looks just like an old pocket ink pen. Pilots and SPY"S were issued these during World war II. Bill

 

[SKYCHENEY]

The only reason somebody would have a "stealth" gun is to elude detection. Why don't you want somebody to know you have it?.....because it is not legal for you to have it for some reason. You are either in a jurisdiciton that does not allow it or you are not personally allowed to have it. Well, be careful of this. If you are caught possessing an illegal gun or even ammunition in some cases, you could end up spending some "time" away from boating. It is always better to legally possess a firearm than to do it illegally. And if you are going to be legal, you might as well have something that you can actually use. A pen with a 38 in it is probably almost useless since you can't control a gun that you can't hold on to. And, there are gun laws that require you to register them. If you possess a gun that has a barrel that is too short or is not registered, that too is a punishable offense.

My advice is that if you are in an area that allows for a CCW license, get it and learn to use a "real" gun. If you are leaving that area and going into a "no gun" zone, then leave your guns at home. Know the laws and don't take chances. My 2 cents.

 

[Trojan]

Its in a collection. That can't be used. Bill

 

[Trojan]

Guys! After all this talk. I don't think I would want a gun of any type on my boat. There is nothing on board that I can't replace.I'm going to stick with my old giant bell and whelper alarm. Bill

 

[first230sl]

Maybe I have a false sense of security - but all this talk makes me happy to be boating in Canadian waters. With our restrictive gun laws, there are not too many in the way of shooting deaths (it *does* happoen - don't get me wrong, but it not overly common).

My best guess (and this is only a guess) is that since most people in Canada do not own guns, the bad people out there don't worry too much about running into a house/boat owner wielding one when they break in. Therefore they are less likely to bring guns with them when they come to take things like my radio, etc, and things are less likely to escalate into a nasty mess. Not to mention this really reduces the all-too-often accidental shooting.

I do, however, have a good bottle of bear spray beside my bed at home and on the boat, and I know where my flare gun is. Neither will help me against an intruder armed with a gun, but will do wonders in almost any other circumstance (and as I say - it is unlikely, though not impossible, to find an intruder armed with a gun up here).

Please do not interpret this as "our laws/society is better/worse than yours". I am not trying to make any such argument (I do have my own opinions on gun control, ownership, etc - but am keeping them to myself here). I am just making a guess based on observation.

Best regards - Murray

 

[Norm Mayer]

I don't want to say much on this subject, but I have two comments. I have a lot of experience with weapons, but yet haven't owned one for many years. I Have decided that when I start cruising, I want a hidden arsenal. My dad, a WWII ranger also suggested a 12 gauge, with a couple handguns sized to the captain and mate. I believed I wanted more fire power, but this site made me change my mind.
One thing I wanted to add. I used to boat on lake Erie. Going to Canada with a flare gun was just as bad as using any other fire arm. Spelled illegal. FWIW.
Norm