Crime

[MikeP]

We have a security system on Brigadoon that flashes a light all the time on the helm. If you open a door - windows are not alarmed - the alarm will start beeping; 30 sec later the "whooper" horn on the boat will go off. It will definitely get everyone's attention. It's a basic 120v/12vDC home alarm system. It is not connected to 120AC at all, just to 12V. There are alarm stickers on the window, again to keep the honest folks honest. Whether it really helps or not, I have no idea but we've been lucky so far...

I have considered better locks but, as other have pointed out - hasps and padlocks look so ugly.

Re comments on shooting - I agree 100% w/Genesis. The "freeze" option is not one I would consider. However, NY's laws as I understand them, are not as practical as FL's so, as a friend in the NYPD has frequently advised, "If he [intruder] wasn't armed and in the house [or boat] when you shot him, make sure he is before you call us to carry out the body!" What he is armed with is not particularly important. A spare butcher knife will do.

Also, re G's comment on shooting from a boat. The admiral and I did some of this last season out in LI sound for practice (and you can't be sure you can do anything when the time comes unless you practice). Seas were 1-2 feet. Both of us fired equal shots from the 12Ga and a Ruger mini-14 (5.56). We don't carry pistols on board - never been a pistol fan (read that as I can't hit anything with a pistol). I threw a 2ft square piece of 3/4 plywood in the water and we had at it. Range was around 25 yards.

When we recovered it, it had five 5.56 holes (we fired 40 rounds - two 20 round magazines), 31 #7 shot pellets (20 rounds fired-none penetrated), and 2 holes by 00 (6 rounds fired). I could have put the plywood back in service with no appreciable loss in strength! And no, I'm not a bad shot with a long gun! Standing and shooting offhand with the oem iron sights, I can put the Ruger's shots into a 5 inch group at 50 yards. Bench shooting with my Ruger 220 Swift (38 grains of IMR3031, 52G Hornady BT V-Max bullets) I can manage 1" groups at 200 yards. So it ain't me! Those 1-2 ft seas make hitting anything veeeery difficult.

So, as G says, don't expect to repel boarders at anything greater than grappling hook range! You might be able to scare them though.

 

[67hat34c]

We carry an antique on board, 1941 issue IBM M-1 carbine. 15 shot mags. the gun is short, light and can fire as fast as you can pull the trigger, also carry stainless .45.

Issues with children. Kids have to be firearm trained, they must be tought to respect them and know what they can do. I believe that is the best gun safety you can employ with them.

 

[Avenger]

Gotta love this forum!

The only thing I would add at this point regarding weapons choice is that the cycling of a 12ga. pump action is the scariest sound in the world!

It eliminates having to say anything. And quite frankly, if your opponent doesn't dive over the side right away you can be fairly certain that your bad day has just gotten a whole lot worse.

Others have already pointed out the need for proper safeguarding, training, legal issues, and choice of munitions so I won't drag out the books on that. I see that Karl is a "Southern Republican" (The joke's been all over so I won't repeat it here. PM me if you need a copy.)

Nice job guys! Keep your powder dry and watch your front sight!

 

[Passages]

So let me understand. In Florida, if you hear someone on your boat uninvited - say at night- you are armed - you can immediately open fire?

Congratulations, you just killed your drunk neighbor who had the misfortune of stumbling on the wrong boat.

 

[Trojan]

Very good reading. All have a point.I like Genesis point the best. To start with I have 6 kids. 4 Own a shotgun,6 a rifel and 2 a pistol.The 16 year olds have the big stuff. I also have locking cabinets for all the guns. I have many. All the kids have had safety gun school and hunt on a regular basis. They also have bows & arrows. I don't have a gun on board issue. Still I don't have a gun on the boat. My old boat was locked all the time. Every year it has been broken into after season. I remove anything of value at seasons end. But I lock the boat to prevent the weather from entering the boat. The damage has been great and they get nothing. Just distroy things.The maria has 24/7 patrols. They still come in over the ice or in boats and get in. During the summer I don't lock the boat at all. I've though of bringing a gun on board. I worry when I anchor out. We don't have much piracy on the great lakes. But with the drug users of today who knows. I have a 110lbs of black lab that stayes on the boat sometimes. Some insurance companys say to leave the boat unlocked. The damage to the boat is greater than the lose of the equipment. I have found some real nice cubby holes that I hide my good things. Like cash, rings, check books,wallet. I purchased an alarm for the new boat every sence the boat next to me was broken too . I don't know what to do about safety for life and limb. I sure would like to hear from more people on what they do. Bill

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Here is what I do for security of my pistol on board: I mounted a pistol box in the master stateroom. When I am not carrying it, it is locked in the box. The box has a simplex lock on it and only the Admiral and I know the combination. With the simplex lock, it is easy to push the buttons, even in the dark and retrieve the firearm within a few seconds. I don't keep the pistol on the boat when I leave, since I am either carrying it or it is locked in a similar box in my vehicle or at home. If a buglar got in the boat and it was in the locked box, he first would have to find the box, then he would have to pry it out, and then he would have to cut the steel box open. I don't think most crooks would have the time to do that.

If you have a firearm of any kind you DO have a responsibility to keep it out of the hands of others, I agree. And, as Genesis said, you better be prepared to use it or you might as well get rid of it, you have no business owning it.

 

[67hat34c]

Here is a thought regarding use of firearms. If you are sleeping and hear something, do you think that you can get up with full faculties and make a good decision to shoot. I would only think that this would work if you constantly train.

I would think that you guys with larger boats would benefit from closed circuit tv. monitor in your cabin and cameras in salon and deck areas with motion sensors that will alert you. I would think this would give you and edge. see who is comming and decide what to do before it becomes a problem.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I know this is getting off of the original topic, but to answer the question about training--yes, I train regularly. I have a shooting range on my property where I live and I believe it is my duty to be proficient. The only problem is that as much as I shoot, I still cannot be as accurate as the Admiral. She beats me every time, in every competition, and with any type or caliber of firearm. The lesson to me is -- never cross her or I'm done

 

[67hat34c]

I would think that you would have to train wakeing up and being alert. Possibly make obsticles to get to your weapon that will ensure that you are alert once you get your hands on it.

 

[Genesis]

So let me understand. In Florida, if you hear someone on your boat uninvited - say at night- you are armed - you can immediately open fire?

Congratulations, you just killed your drunk neighbor who had the misfortune of stumbling on the wrong boat.

"Hear someone on your boat" - no.

That same someone just broke into your boat? Yes.

My windows and doors are secure when we are below at night. In order to "come into my boat" said drunk neighbor must forcibly enter a secured space.

If my "drunk neighbor" smashes my window or jimmies open my door to get in, he is no longer my "drunk neighbor." He is now a burglar who has committed a forcible felony and I am justifyably in fear of my life.

If you are such a "drunk neighbor" that you get intoxicated to the point that you break into other people's private property after consuming said beverages, your actions, at least in this state, are likely to have very significant negative consequences with regards to your life expectancy.

I suggest that such individuals modify their consumption of said beverages accordingly if they have concern for their continued sentience. It is not sane to consume "adult beverages" to the point that you commit forcible felonies as a matter of course.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I would think that you would have to train wakeing up and being alert. Possibly make obsticles to get to your weapon that will ensure that you are alert once you get your hands on it.

When you fear for your life, it is amazing how quick the adreneline kicks in. You are immediately alert in such a situation. Everyone in my home is trained for such a night invasion. Even the children know what to do and where to go. We call it a safe room, but it's just an ordinary room in the house where we all gather for protection.

 

[MikeP]

The alarm on our boat can be set to immediately trigger if a door is opened. This is how it is set when we are on board and retiring for the night. That way, if anyone forces their way in - even if we don't hear them doing that, the alarm will sound. I suspect most intruders would leave immediately. However...

The Mossberg 12Ga (magazine loaded but no round in the chamber) is a short reach to the left of my side of the bed. I don't even have to get up - just lay back and wait for him/her/them to "COME ON DOWN!" I suspect, as Scrod pointed out, that when I jacked the first cartridge into the chamber, the intruder(s) would then leave. If he/she/they don't leave at that point, I would accept the fact that they are serious. But although I would prefer never to be involved in this sort of confrontation, it wouldn't be my first firefight.

The Admiral isn't a great shooter - though she can knock down peasants, er, I mean pheasants reasonably well (and she's great at cooking them).

 

[67hat34c]

pesants, Mel Brooks History of the world. (It's good to be the king)

 

[OVERSPRAY]

Great thread with some great points. I moved out of my moms house when I was 19, and on to an old 42 foot Chris that I sold my car to finance. I lived on that old girl for 11 years on and off. I birthed at a not so glamorous marina that was often frequented by trasient scumbags, comercial fishermen, and the rotating stock of bums living under the bridge around the corner. We nicknamed it Ghetto Yacht Basin. Over the years that I lived aboard I had been awakened by intruders a number of times. More often than not a loud "get the f#*k off my boat" did the trick, and once I actually had to throw a man in the water. But that was in my early 20's and I'm just not up for that nonsence any more. I wouldn't think twice to fire on someone breaking into my boat any more than I would drop them coming in the front door of my house. Especialy now that a woman and 2 young girls are in the picture. I was born and raised around guns and was taught the dangers and values of them as soon as I could hold one. and firmly believe in proper training at all ages. and continued practice. My best and most favorite security device while on board is a 17 pound Schipperke. nothing, and I mean nothing gets on that boat without all hell breaking loose. If after that I wake to shots fired, Its because my girl got to the Taurus Millenium before I did. She doesn't hesitate either. The one thing we do agree on.

 

[rangerscott275]

Since I started this thread, figured I ought to weigh in.....

As my login name suggests, I was in special ops for a few years b/f going to college...also worked in intelligence

Even though I am what some might consider, "trained", I still am nervous about having weapons aboard. I do currently, but I'm not sure if I want to keep it that way...or if since they are there, if I should keep them loaded, etc., etc.

I like the idea of the pistol box. I have a safe onboard now but it would take me 5 minutes to get at what's inside since it has dials, numbers and keys.

I'm not as concerned about pulling / using them as I am about getting in trouble with the Coast Guard or some other authority....are there universal rules w/ regards to keeping weapons on board or does it always vary with each state? I mostly picture a situation where I am boarded and they are checking for safety gear or some other sundry item and ask me is I have weapons....and I say yes...and for one reason or another I end up losing my boat or going to the can or whatever.....

 

[Passages]

Bravado aside, I think we are all in agreement that the use of lethal force is not something to be taken lightly. Most situations described involve instant decision making and point blank gunfire. In these close quarter encounters, wouldn't a good shot of pepper spray be just as effective? With non-lethal weapons, I could support a shoot first, ask questions later policy. If you make a mistake, you apologize and help clean him up. If he IS a bad guy, hit him again with whatever you have and call the cops.

With a gun - you just can't afford to make a mistake.

ps: I also agree that kids need training on safe gun handling

 

[StratPlan61]

My, my, my, we Hatt owners seem quite the tough bunch heh?? Lots of testosterone - guns and boats always bring out the best of our emotions - this sounds akin to someone messing with our family pooch! OK, my nickels worth. I am very well trained in all types of small arms and their use (36yrs in the Army uniform so far). I agree with most everything which has been said. In the civilan world (setting aside serious automatic weapons designed for such exchanges) the 12ga pump is your best bet - both as a deterrent and for impact on the target. I am an accomplished handgunner and only hunt with handguns. However, for the average marksman/boater, the 12ga is your best bet.
First, shotguns are generally viewed by governments/police agencies as 'defensive weapons' (that is in your favor). Second, this gives you a broad range of munitions - slugs, birdshot, 00, etc. Third, impact on the target out to 50 yds can be incredible - even for a 'an almost bullseye'. Use 3" magnum rounds for slugs or 00. This is serious target impact.
My Mossberg Mariner with a pistol grip (still legal length overall) remains in a steel safe (always locked) UNLOADED at all times in the small cupboard above the refrigerator and is out of curious reach and within 3 feet of the helm on my 61. I can retrieve it and load it within 15 seconds. I carry multiple types of shells - in their original boxes (5 each).
IF you think you need to use a weapon - FIRST clearly identify your target as a DEADLY threat, SECOND you must actually 'Fear for your life' - after you do so - engage center mass at the closest range possible. Believe me, no target will survive.
I could use any number of my great magnum handguns BUT over penetration is a big concern with boats, neighbors, etc. My Mossberg is short, quick to load/unload, legal almost everywhere, defensive in nature, always locked in a safe - and delivers devastating impact. I installed a shoulder sling on it so I can hang it around my neck. You don't need to point it at someone for it to be a deterrent (pointing it is against the law boys). OK. let's get back to happy boating thoughts - I've been to enough funerals lately.

 

[MikeP]

Strat -

Although I'm sure it varies state to state, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I have a good friend who is an NYPD sergeant. He saw my Mariner, which, like yours, I had removed the stock and attached the pistol grip. He "suggested" that I reinstall the regular stock. He said that to the cops, the pistol grip makes the bearer appear to be someone looking for a fight. This creates a bad first impression and, as we all know, first impressions are everything so I went back to the standard stock.

As far as fearing for your life - as he has laughingly explained many times - whether you actually fear for your life or not is unimportant, just be sure to SAY you feared for your life.

 

[Mike36c]

We spent the night on the hook last night, here's my take... While in the states there are no arms onboard except for dogs(better than any alarm!). On our Bahama trips I carry a Bushmaster AR-15 .223 w/60rds clips & steel cored rds and a Colt .380 pistol stashed in the head. Yes, the head. I figure if we are hijacked the unwanted party may turn their back for a moment while I do my business, bad mistake. One point is that a felon does not value life as much as we do and in a confrontation they will not hesitate to take yours. I will never shoot a shadow, a felon running w/my stuff, a drunk asking for more beer @4am, or a friend politely raiding my rum cabinet in the islands. Lets all hope there will never be a post on this site where someone had to shoot. Happy Holidays

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I agree that a 12 gauge is your best defense, but it is harder to lock up a shotgun than a pistol. I will not own a gun that is not kept in a locked cabinet of some sort. If you leave your shotgun on the boat when you leave and it is not properly secured, the same criminal that we want to defeat could end up using your weapon against you or someone else. This is why I prefer to carry my one of my semi-autos(where legal, of course) and keep it locked and loaded nearby when I am not carrying it. To each his own, but for me, this is what make me feel most comfortable. I pray that I never have to use it, but I also pray that I have the means to defend my family(first) and myself(second) if it is ever necessary to do so.