Chartering My 58TC

[Brian Degulis]

First you have to understand that licensing was not really created for your situation. It was aimed at commercial operations were a guy might work the deck for a few years then sit for a license. No commercial operator is going to let someone who is licensed but not qualified run one of they're boats.

You can make a good argument that the licensing system is inadequate. The problem is that argument falls apart when you look at the record. For the # of people currently licensed and the # of passenger tug and freight operations the safety record is terrific. If you look into incidents and accidents there are almost none that were attributed to lack of experience.

In short why add a lot of government gook to a system that works.

Brian

 

[Sparky1]

I'm sure most if not all of what you're saying is true Brian, but I wonder how many licensed captains are running pleasure boats for hire vs commercial boats carrying cargo instead of people. I would bet the percentages have changed drastically since the inception of USCG licensing.

 

[Brian Degulis]

That could be true although there is an awfull lot of comercial traffic and they all have to be licensed. But either way comercial or not the record is good.

Here's another rule that will make you think. In tugs no license is required if the tug is under 26' in lengh. It makes no diffrence how long or heavy the tow is as long as the tug does not exceed 26. We've built some 25.5 footers with 1500 HP capable of pushing strings of barges 280' X 120' in excess of 1000 tons. Now think about that someone who has never stepped foot on a boat can legaly run that.

Brian

 

[Sparky1]

Interesting. You've given me a whole new reason to keep my distance when operating near a tug. Maybe you've hit on something that will save me a whole lot of aggravation. I'll just buy myself a 25'11" x 15'10" tug, paint it to match my 58, and push it up and down the river. That will enable me to advertise the charter of an 85' yacht while eliminating the need for a dingy.

 

[krush]

sure... let see... everybody has a few millions hanging around to build a 60 or 70MY from scratch!

Gotta pay to play. If your original manufacturer can't provide stability calculations, it's going to cost even more money make the gov happy.

 

[Sparky1]

Gotta pay to play. If your original manufacturer can't provide stability calculations, it's going to cost even more money make the gov happy.

Bull... oney! As previously mentioned, Angela's boat was upgraded to meet the critera for certification. Are you suggesting a new boat could be had for less than the cost of the original boat and the additional upgrades?

You're on drugs, aren't you?

 

[GJD]

Sparky, I think I was on your boat as a potential buyer here in Cincinnati then. She was docked at a marina called Watertown. That's where we're docked now. Is the ceiling in your salon kinda metallic looking? Second salon midships?

As to gala's, call up almost any church or charity and chances are they have an annual banquet, dance, ball, gala. Live autions are very common at these events as a fund raising vehicle. If I chose to I'm certain I could be booked every week with someone. Like I said, I had to put the brakes on it.

 

[Brian Degulis]

Interesting. You've given me a whole new reason to keep my distance when operating near a tug. Maybe you've hit on something that will save me a whole lot of aggravation. I'll just buy myself a 25'11" x 15'10" tug, paint it to match my 58, and push it up and down the river. That will enable me to advertise the charter of an 85' yacht while eliminating the need for a dingy.

Well it's your lucky day I've got one in stock!!!! http://pushboats-barges.com/


Brian

 

[Pascal]

"First you have to understand that licensing was not really created for your situation. It was aimed at commercial operations were a guy might work the deck for a few years then sit for a license"

Brian is 100% right, this is why the system isnt' adapted to "pleasure" boats but it does work after all


"First, you can get your captain's license having never set foot on a boat. "

complete BS. no matter what, you need 360 days underway, one day being a minimum of 4 hours. I dont' know where you get the impression that one can get a license with no experience... read the previous posts, read the regs.

should there be an on the water test? personally i think so but owners and insurers are not going to let a guy who's only driven 30' get a the helm of a 58 footer, so there are safeguards in place.

"it seems strange to think that somebody could be qualified by running their boat through a no wake zone down the ICW and back at idle speed vs somebody who would cover thousands of miles over the same time period."

In the past 15 to 18 months, I probably did 6000 to 7000 miles. about half, or a little over half, was in the ICW, the rest offshore or open waters, some of it at 10kts, some at 22/23kts. It is much easier to get out of an inlet, set the AP on a course and just monitor the systems, watch for traffic or floatsam, and do the navigation. very relaxing and MUCH easier than worrying about tides in certain spots, wondering where the deeper is, trying to read the water, dealing with traffic, etc... no comparison.

One issue with how time is calculated is that you dont' have to actually be in charge of the boat to log the time and i think that's where some folks get themselves in trouble. Driving a boat is easy... it's the rest of the stuff that makes a "captain". Making the go / no go decision, analyzing the weather, doing their homework in planning the trip, running and maintaining the systems, etc... it's the whole package. Because someone was on a buddy's boat doesn't mean they buitl some experience even if they drove and docked it a couple of time.

and this is soemthing they can not teach you in Captain School...

 

[Sparky1]

Sparky, I think I was on your boat as a potential buyer here in Cincinnati then. She was docked at a marina called Watertown. That's where we're docked now. Is the ceiling in your salon kinda metallic looking? Second salon midships?

Ah yes, the infamous "disco ceiling".

That sounds like her alright. If it really was my boat, there's no way you could forget her name at that pont... "Lady Linda's (in smaller letters) ADULT TOY IV". You'd most certainly have to remember the red velvet encrusted master stateroom surrounded by exotic, white padded vinyl. The swag lamps in the port and starboard corners finished off the masterfully installed, mobile home grade, white chest of drawers.

Last but not least, for those hot and bothered nights, was a window shaker at the foot of the bed which would send shivers down your spine in the event the decor hadn't already dont that. Now you know why I spent a whole week tearing crap out of the boat and never took any pictures before doing so.

Thanks for the additional information as I'll certainly look into that aspect of generating some interest.

 

[Sparky1]

QUOTE=Pascal... no matter what, you need 360 days underway, one day being a minimum of 4 hours. I dont' know where you get the impression that one can get a license with no experience... read the previous posts, read the regs.

Here are the requirements http://www.uscg.mil/NMC/checklists/MCP-FM-NMC5-40 Limited-Master 100 or OUPV.pdf

As I understand it, one doesn't have to offer proof of experience to obain their six pack. If someone wants to lie about this and is able to pass the test, they'll get a license.

should there be an on the water test? personally i think so but owners and insurers are not going to let a guy who's only driven 30' get a the helm of a 58 footer, so there are safeguards in place.

How will the owners or their insurers know the experience level of a licensed captain as to how large a boat he/she has experience with? The insurance company just requires a license appropriate for the size vessel being operated by a paid captain.

"it seems strange to think that somebody could be qualified by running their boat through a no wake zone down the ICW and back at idle speed vs somebody who would cover thousands of miles over the same time period."

In the past 15 to 18 months, I probably did 6000 to 7000 miles. about half, or a little over half, was in the ICW, the rest offshore or open waters, some of it at 10kts, some at 22/23kts. It is much easier to get out of an inlet, set the AP on a course and just monitor the systems, watch for traffic or floatsam, and do the navigation. very relaxing and MUCH easier than worrying about tides in certain spots, wondering where the deeper is, trying to read the water, dealing with traffic, etc... no comparison.

My statement about idling around in the ICW having left a marina only to return was not about you. It was simply an observation of how meaningless time on the water can be.

One issue with how time is calculated is that you dont' have to actually be in charge of the boat to log the time and i think that's where some folks get themselves in trouble. Driving a boat is easy... it's the rest of the stuff that makes a "captain". Making the go / no go decision, analyzing the weather, doing their homework in planning the trip, running and maintaining the systems, etc... it's the whole package. Because someone was on a buddy's boat doesn't mean they buitl some experience even if they drove and docked it a couple of time.

and this is soemthing they can not teach you in Captain School...

I agree, and that's what I was talking about in the above statement.

 

[Pascal]

obviously if one wants to lie about their experience then they can get a license with little or no experience. they may get away with it, or they may not.

but legally, one needs 360 four hour days underway to qualify.

again, this comes from teh commercial world where a deck hand, first mate, would learn over a period of time and then have his paperwork signed by the captain or owner.

in the recreational world, it doens't work that way since most boats have very few crew and there are few opportunities to learn on the job until you get to the over 100t level where you will have a larger crew.

On a commercial vessel (passenger or cargo) it's easier for a first mate to get time at the wheel and get some docking practice, with the captain standing by. try that on a charter yacht with the guests sitting in the pilothouse watchign what's going on...

teh insurance company does not just require the license, they want to see a resume of the prospective captain experience. Again, he can lie about it but i would expect underwriters to check references... jsut like when someone applies for a job, the employers will check the references.

 

[Sparky1]

Not sure where you're coming up with the "360 four hour days underway to qualify" as the link I posted to the regs clearly states otherwise. Perhaps you are referring to the requirements of a 100 ton master.

 

[stormchaser]

Im pretty sure for an LSOUPV (Limited Scope Operator Uninspcted Passenger Vessel) the requirement is 90 days in the past 3 years, not 365. Even for a 100t, if its a Limited Scope 100t, it's only 120 days. For an unrestricted/full 100t, that's when its 365 days. But even at 90 days in 3 years, you need 20 days a year, or 10 weekends per year where the boat is under way at least 4 hours both Saturday and Sunday...thats actually more than it sounds like.

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Ah yes, the infamous "disco ceiling".

That sounds like her alright. If it really was my boat, there's no way you could forget her name at that pont... "Lady Linda's (in smaller letters) ADULT TOY IV". You'd most certainly have to remember the red velvet encrusted master stateroom surrounded by exotic, white padded vinyl. The swag lamps in the port and starboard corners finished off the masterfully installed, mobile home grade, white chest of drawers.

Last but not least, for those hot and bothered nights, was a window shaker at the foot of the bed which would send shivers down your spine in the event the decor hadn't already dont that. Now you know why I spent a whole week tearing crap out of the boat and never took any pictures before doing so.

Thanks for the additional information as I'll certainly look into that aspect of generating some interest.

Ya know when we get home tomorrow I am gonna post them pics AGAIN... Why dont you post some "after" pics... botofucket mite censor them if theres any DNA stains on the walls LOLOL... ws

 

[Sparky1]

Im pretty sure for an OUPV (Operator uninsp3cted passenger Vessel) the requirement is 90 days in the past 3 years, not 365.

Why not click on my USCG link and be more than pretty sure? 90 days in the past 3 years is what it says.

Ya know when we get home tomorrow I am gonna post them pics AGAIN... Why dont you post some "after" pics... botofucket mite censor them if theres any DNA stains on the walls LOLOL... ws

Hey, don't worry, when I get everything spiffed up, there will be plenty of pictures both here and on my website. Seems like even with all the pictures you took, you didn't get any of the master stateroom. Then again, maybe your camera was overwhelmed, especially if you used a flash.

 

[Brian Degulis]

The link you post is Limited Scope OUPV What does that mean?

This link is OUPV http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/checklists/OUPVMLD-FM-REC-107.pdf 365 days required

Brian

 

[Pascal]

Not sure where you're coming up with the "360 four hour days underway to qualify" as the link I posted to the regs clearly states otherwise. Perhaps you are referring to the requirements of a 100 ton master.

it's written in plain english on teh USCg site..
http://www.samsmarine.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=140820
360 days and 90 days in the past 3 years.

they cant' make it easier to understand, something pretty incredible for government agency, isn't it?

 

[stormchaser]

The link you post is Limited Scope OUPV What does that mean?

Brian

Limited scope means inland waters operated exclusively by a specific USCG Marine Safety Office (MSO) and is valid only on the inland waters which are under the authority of the issuing MSO.

A limited scope OUPV is what most "fishing guides" on inland lakes and rivers have. Super easy to get...but very restrictive in where it can be used. If you want to use it for a charter...better be damn sure ALL your waters qualify...its a very serious matter to operate outside the waters on a LS ticket.

 

[stormchaser]

Why not click on my USCG link and be more than pretty sure? 90 days in the past 3 years is what it says.

because I was lazy...I don't need to know the sea time requirements for sure, I already have my NON-LS 100t. Its your job/duty to have the right info, not mine. Just be sure your area of operation is truely LS Waters, and you are good to go...but be damn sure they are...