Chartering My 58TC

[mobilemn1]

Quite honestly I think you have to look at the uniqueness of what you are offering. Some people prefer the inland sites more than the salt water vistas. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder when it comes to panavistic views of the area you are talking about. I can tell you from past business experience that you can't count on the locals for you business. You have to create the adventure of a lifetime for people who would love to do what you are doing. Two couples away for the weekend at any motel, except motel 8 c'mon, will spend upwards of 1500 bucks for lodging food and site seeing. Thousands have done the Disney World thing, or the Six Flags thing. Many moderate income people would probably enjoy doing something like this as maybe the once in a lifetime thing or the reoccuring event annually, after all there are four seasons in the year and each has its own fascade.

I think your biggest expense will be advertising in the right magazines and creating the desire to come to you. (I can cook if your'e interested, polish, small repairs, well you know what I mean)

 

[34Hatt]

Quite honestly I think you have to look at the uniqueness of what you are offering. Some people prefer the inland sites more than the salt water vistas. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder when it comes to panavistic views of the area you are talking about. I can tell you from past business experience that you can't count on the locals for you business. You have to create the adventure of a lifetime for people who would love to do what you are doing. Two couples away for the weekend at any motel, except motel 8 c'mon, will spend upwards of 1500 bucks for lodging food and site seeing. Thousands have done the Disney World thing, or the Six Flags thing. Many moderate income people would probably enjoy doing something like this as maybe the once in a lifetime thing or the reoccuring event annually, after all there are four seasons in the year and each has its own fascade.

I think your biggest expense will be advertising in the right magazines and creating the desire to come to you. (I can cook if your'e interested, polish, small repairs, well you know what I mean)

Daryl has a point so what is your offer for my service to Judge it

 

[Sparky1]

You know, it could very well be that I need to concentrate more on out of towners than local folks for charters. People who live around here take all the beauty of the mountains and the rivers for granted. I can't imagine spending a week in Gatlinburg, for example, but people come from all over the country to do just that.

As I said earlier, I've boated in lots of different places, but for shear beauty, it's hard to beat the section of river I'd be running. I could easily spend a week in Chattanooga on the boat and be perfectly content, but if people want to see more of the river, a one week charter could do the trick. Maybe I'm under-estimating the value of such a trip. I'm one hell of a cook on a grill, so I could always throw some steaks, chicken, and seafood on for dinner while traveling areas where restaurants are not as plentiful. Besides, a thick, juicy steak always tastes better on a boat.

Here are a few shots of "The Gorge" which I posted earlier on this forum having taken the 41 down through it for the first time.

 

[Traveler 45C]

You'd get a hell of alot of business if you promoted a "Changing of the Leaves" fall cruise.

Ya' can't beat the beauty of that!

 

[Angela]

I got a PM from the Bird asking me when I was going to jump in. So here goes.

What Pascal said is pretty much spot on and I can't really think of anything else to add which is why I didn't comment. IMHO, you're going to have to update the interior and get both engines running, neither of which will be trivial. I've been updating Sanctuary since the day I got her, and there is still much I want to do.

Get rid of the abundance of mirrors, disco ball, vinyl or wallpaper - whatever was on those walls, red velvet (can't remember what all was in those photos I saw at one time), and bring her back to a "traditional" yacht of her era unless your niche is going to be Bubba's River Rides.

 

[Robby]

You'd get a hell of alot of business if you promoted a "Changing of the Leaves" fall cruise.

Ya' can't beat the beauty of that!

I agree!!!!

 

[Sparky1]

You'd get a hell of alot of business if you promoted a "Changing of the Leaves" fall cruise.

Ya' can't beat the beauty of that!

Yep, there's no doubt that would be a premium few weeks. That area is absolutely beautiful when the leaves are changing, and the weather is very comfortable.

I got a PM from the Bird asking me when I was going to jump in. So here goes.

What Pascal said is pretty much spot on and I can't really think of anything else to add which is why I didn't comment. IMHO, you're going to have to update the interior and get both engines running, neither of which will be trivial. I've been updating Sanctuary since the day I got her, and there is still much I want to do.

Get rid of the abundance of mirrors, disco ball, vinyl or wallpaper - whatever was on those walls, red velvet (can't remember what all was in those photos I saw at one time), and bring her back to a "traditional" yacht of her era unless your niche is going to be Bubba's River Rides.

"Bubba's River Rides"? How'd you guess?

Trust me Ang, I may be a redneck, but I wouldn't even take before pictures of the 58 when I bought it. I'll have her purtier than a new double-wide before I take on my first customer.

Let me ask you one thing here in public, how can you advertise carrying 12 passengers on your boat? Is Sanctuary still an inspected vessel or are there ways around the 6 pack deal?

 

[Angela]

Let me ask you one thing here in public, how can you advertise carrying 12 passengers on your boat? Is Sanctuary still an inspected vessel or are there ways around the 6 pack deal?

Anything over 6, but up to 12 is a bareboat charter - it's a matter of how the contract(s) is/are written, and the captain has to be more than than the minimum. I think the threshold for that is 100 ton - Pascal, correct me if that's the wrong tonnage.

 

[Sparky1]

I was going to ask you about the bareboat thing as I did read your website. Will you bareboat your boat without a licensed captain being part of the deal?

My understanding of this was that you can put as many people as you want on a bareboat charter as long as the operator isn't a licensed captain. Beyond that, I thought the vessel had to be inspected if it carries more than 6 paying passengers, regardless of the captain's certification.

 

[Angela]

We don't just "rent the boat" and wave good bye. A bareboat charter separates out the boat rental and the paid captain. While the rules say we cannot dictate what captain the bareboat charterer will hire and we cannot supply the crew (hence, the separation of contracts), we can make suggestions in helping the charterer choose a qualifed captain/crew, and if we do not feel the charterer's selected crew is qualified, then we won't let the boat go, and there is no bareboat contract. Think about it...

 

[Sparky1]

Hey Ang, maybe it would be better if I just give you a call as to the technical stuff.

 

[Pascal]

yep, that's how it works... two contracts. a bareboat rental contract between the owner and the charterer plus a crew service contract between the captain and the charterer.

since in most cases there is a broker involved, the paper work is pretty standard and the contracts have been developped, reviewed, approved by their professional associations and a half dozen attorneys

anything over 6, the captain needs to have a master whether or not the vessel is inspected.

the word bareboat is a little confusing since it can also refer to the smaller bareboat charters, sailboats or trawlers, which dont' have any crew requirement.this is more like a rental than a charter.

 

[Sparky1]

I hope I didn't come across as questioning the legality of what Ang posted, but now that you've cleared things up, let me make sure I understand this. As the owner and licensed captain of my boat, I can't carry over 6 paying passengers unless my boat is inspected.

However, if I bareboat charter my boat to a group, they can hire me to run my own boat with a separate contract thereby allowing them to have 12 people onboard?

Surely I'm missing something here. Maybe the party has to hire a captain who is not involved in ownership or the charter (wink wink), but I would have thought the same rules would apply as to the six pack deal.

 

[Traveler 45C]

The capt they hire will have to have a 100ton license (unlimited number of people) vs a 6 pack capt license (6 people only).

 

[Sparky1]

I always thought it was the boat that determined the capacity as opposed to the rating of the captain. So does this mean I can carry 12 paying passengers on my boat after I get my 100 ton master?

It's just hard to believe the captain's rating would override the boat's size and carrying capacity when it comes to safety. Then again, we are talking about government regulations here.

 

[Pascal]

you're not the only one wondering about it, many do, but it's legit, as long as it's done properly. this is how every charter boats which runs day charter does it.. and believe me, there are plenty of them around here! actaully, even when we carry only 6 passengers on Charmer (www.yachtcharmer.com) the brokers always do it as a bareboat. Never questioned why, I suspect that it's to make sure the charter remains legal if the client brings along an extra guest.

"As the owner and licensed captain of my boat, I can't carry over 6 paying passengers unless my boat is inspected."

correct as long you have a Master, not just an 6Pack.

"However, if I bareboat charter my boat to a group, they can hire me to run my own boat with a separate contract thereby allowing them to have 12 people onboard?"

i really doubt the owner can be hired as captain on a bareboat... Never had to look into it though, but i doubt it.

 

[Angela]

Going from memory here, from what I've read of the rules, the owner can be hired as the captain (assuming he is qualified for 12 passengers, i.e. 100T), but what the owner cannot do is DICTATE WHO the charterer hires for a captain, but we all know that if you don't hire the "right" crew, there is no charter, and no rules have been violated. This is where it's nice to have a broker making "suggestions" and the owner staying out of the negotiations.

If someone hired my preferred crew under protest (meaning they really wanted to hire someone else, and I disapproved), I'd decline the charter because that where you start violating the rules. Most folks want to have the crew onboard who is familiar with the boat and the local waters, so it's rarely an issue.

Pascal, our dockmate just a few slips down is an example of an owner captain being hired for a 12-pax bareboat.

 

[ThirdHatt]

As I recall from when I took the test 5 years ago that to get a basic 6-pack is fairly easy with enough verifyable hours on virtually any vessel underway and it comes in 25-ton increments. For example, if the majority of a person's experience is with a 70,000lb (35-ton) 58' boat, then they would issue a 50-ton 6-pack. They will issue a license for the next tonnage increment above your experience level. To get a 100-ton you must have documnented and verifyable time (ALOT of it) under way on a 200,000lb boat.

Hope this helps.

 

[Pascal]

angela,

well yes, but maybe his boat is owned by a corp... who knows.
the biggest obstacle is usually insurance anyway, once you get into larger boats, the policy specifically name who is allowed to run the boat anyway. go a little larger, 65/70+ and policies start requiring a full time captain. On larger MYs (aroudn the 100' mark) which have 4 or 5 guests staterooms (plus crew), it's all bareboat and you can bet these boats have a full time crew. while some maybe US built (larger hatts, broward, etc...) the foreign built hulls (Ferrettis, mutts, sunseekers, et...) can not be inspected, so they have to be bareboats even though they have a full time crew


Byron,

there are no tonnage levels with a 6P/OUPV, it's good up to 100GT and 6 passengers.

tonnage comes into play for the Master. the exam is the same for 25, 50 and 100T, your experience is used to determine what level you will get.

you need at least ONE day on a 5GT boat to get a 25GT Master
after that, it's basically 1.5 x tonnage of the boat you have at least 50% of your required experience rounded up.

so, if most of your time is on a 20GT boat, you will get 20x1.5=30T rounded up to the next one, 50GT

if most of your time is on a 53MY which is 39GT, you get 39x1.5=58.5 rounded up to the next one which 100GT

Same for the next step, 200GT, the exam is the same but they issue 150 or 200GT depending on your experience.

for the 100GT 1 day is 4 hours underway, for the 200GT 1 day is 8 hours udnerway.

 

[ThirdHatt]

angela,

well yes, but maybe his boat is owned by a corp... who knows.
the biggest obstacle is usually insurance anyway, once you get into larger boats, the policy specifically name who is allowed to run the boat anyway. go a little larger, 65/70+ and policies start requiring a full time captain. On larger MYs (aroudn the 100' mark) which have 4 or 5 guests staterooms (plus crew), it's all bareboat and you can bet these boats have a full time crew. while some maybe US built (larger hatts, broward, etc...) the foreign built hulls (Ferrettis, mutts, sunseekers, et...) can not be inspected, so they have to be bareboats even though they have a full time crew


Byron,

there are no tonnage levels with a 6P/OUPV, it's good up to 100GT and 6 passengers.

tonnage comes into play for the Master. the exam is the same for 25, 50 and 100T, your experience is used to determine what level you will get.

you need at least ONE day on a 5GT boat to get a 25GT Master
after that, it's basically 1.5 x tonnage of the boat you have at least 50% of your required experience rounded up.

so, if most of your time is on a 20GT boat, you will get 20x1.5=30T rounded up to the next one, 50GT

if most of your time is on a 53MY which is 39GT, you get 39x1.5=58.5 rounded up to the next one which 100GT

Same for the next step, 200GT, the exam is the same but they issue 150 or 200GT depending on your experience.

for the 100GT 1 day is 4 hours underway, for the 200GT 1 day is 8 hours udnerway.

Pascal, thanks for clearing that up. I remembered the 25, 50 and 100GT levels being determined by the largest boat you had time on, so that is what I was trying to say. I can't remember how many days was required for the license.