Chartering My 58TC

[Pascal]

360 days required incl 90 in the last 3 years

 

[nyrussell]

I have the 6 pack 50T right now... Am working on my 100T Unlimited but time and boats can be an issue unless you have extra time to spend on the water instead of job etc....


Randy,

Don't worry about any charters over 6 people to start. There are enough "Masters" out there that can be aboard as the payed captain to solve an issue for a larger charter. Personally just hire Pascal.

Hardest part right now for you, fixing the 58 and getting the adverts going. BTW I might be able to help with the menu eh?

 

[Angela]

Also, Randy, if you hire a Master Captain just to get you legal for over six passengers, that person doesn't necessarily have to operate the boat; he/she just needs to be onboard. Granted, that person will be responsible for anything you do.

In a situation when I need use a backup captain, I'll drive the boat myself - I'll mostly just do the docking - and she can do the other driving across the bay if she wants, but I need that captain onboard to satisfy the legal requirements. Ideally, I'd like for her to get some helm time on Sanctuary - I'm thinking "Two Girls and a Yacht" might be a fun charter slogan. LOL

So, if you need a Master Captain onboard, but that person doesn't know how to drive the boat (that situation is more common than you think!), hire the person to go along for the ride and drive the boat yourself.

 

[nyrussell]

Ang,

I can't wait to meet you finally this November early.

 

[Sparky1]

Also, Randy, if you hire a Master Captain just to get you legal for over six passengers, that person doesn't necessarily have to operate the boat; he/she just needs to be onboard. Granted, that person will be responsible for anything you do.

In a situation when I need use a backup captain, I'll drive the boat myself - I'll mostly just do the docking - and she can do the other driving across the bay if she wants, but I need that captain onboard to satisfy the legal requirements. Ideally, I'd like for her to get some helm time on Sanctuary - I'm thinking "Two Girls and a Yacht" might be a fun charter slogan. LOL

So, if you need a Master Captain onboard, but that person doesn't know how to drive the boat (that situation is more common than you think!), hire the person to go along for the ride and drive the boat yourself.

"Two Girls & A Yacht"... I LOVE it! Might want to pick up another girl so you can compete with, "Three Men & A Truck".

I don't plan to hire a captain, and I really don't plan to carry more than 6 passengers unless the overnight week-end thing just doesn't pan out. Then I'd want to carry as many passengers as possible on a day trip as I would charge by the passenger as opposed to charging for the trip. That's the way the other guys are doing it. So is 12 the limit without being inspected?

I'm still a little fuzzy on the details of how this all works where the extra passengers are concerned, but I'm sure I'll figure it out well before it becomes an issue. I hate to get this thread headed into 10 different directions (really, I do!), but I'm still going to have to come up with some documentation as to verify my sea time. I never knew the HOF could come in handy as I've basically used it as a ship's log for the past 3 1/2 years.

Beyond that, I guess I'll just have to get with my insurance agent and see if he can help me come up with proof of all the boats I've owned over the years as to get my 100 ton without having to do an upgrade later. My near coastal experience started about 21 years ago when I lived in Venice, FL. Man, I was on the water almost every day and logged a ton of hours running from around Tarpon Springs to Fort Myers with the occasional trip to Lake O. Then I opened another office for my business outside Lakeland, and I spent a lot of time running the coast from late '91 to mid '92.

Add to that my having had the 58 in Florida for over a year as well as all the trips on the GuzCuzer where I played captain as well as running several other big Hatts, and I don't see anybody questioning my near coastal time. God knows how many thousands of hours I've run up and down the Tennessee River since I was 10 years old in everthing from 7' hydroplanes to 100MPH go fast boats to 100' houseboats and everything in between.

 

[Angela]

There are some additional rules out there when charging “by the head count” and your insurance company will want to know about that - it’s a specific question on your insurance application.

 

[Sparky1]

Thanks Ang. Mind if I ask who you're insured with? I know you said you got a better rate being commercial than you were looking at as a private vessel. We can do this with PM's or phone calls, but I'm thinking other folks might like to know how all this works too.

 

[Bill Allen]

If you want over six you need to be inspected, a whole new can of worms. Not sure if the hatt can be "inspected" as some of the requirments are when the boat is built. You won't have any problems coming up with sea time, you have friends whose boat you've been on while underway. They can sign for seatime. You'll certainnly get an inshore tonnage indorsment. I have friends with little boat knowledge and have qualified for a 100 ton ticket. Bill

 

[Pascal]

sea service forms are done by month... you only have to state the nr of days you ran the boat for each month... you don't need exact dates.

for your own boats, you need to provide a copy of the state reg or CG doc to show that you owned the boat. for others, you need to have the owner sign the form for you.

not sure if you can charge per person, maybe... charters are typically priced for the boat either incl. or plus expenses. Rate could be different if you have 2 or 6 pax on board, but the price is not stated per person.

 

[Sparky1]

If you want over six you need to be inspected, a whole new can of worms. Not sure if the hatt can be "inspected" as some of the requirments are when the boat is built. You won't have any problems coming up with sea time, you have friends whose boat you've been on while underway. They can sign for seatime. You'll certainnly get an inshore tonnage indorsment. I have friends with little boat knowledge and have qualified for a 100 ton ticket. Bill

Thanks for you input Bill, but it looks like part of your statement contradicts what Angela and Pascal are telling me. I'm sure these regs are about as cut and dried as the tax laws are. I know that Ang's boat was inspected, but the boat had to have several modifications done before it would qualify. She can tell you more about that.

sea service forms are done by month... you only have to state the nr of days you ran the boat for each month... you don't need exact dates.

for your own boats, you need to provide a copy of the state reg or CG doc to show that you owned the boat. for others, you need to have the owner sign the form for you.

not sure if you can charge per person, maybe... charters are typically priced for the boat either incl. or plus expenses. Rate could be different if you have 2 or 6 pax on board, but the price is not stated per person.

I'm sure that overnite charters are priced for the boat, but not most day charters. At least that's the way it's been with most I've seen.

I mentioned getting insurance records as verification of ownership because I've bought a lot of boats (including my 58) as a licensed boat dealer. With that in mind, I won't have copies of state registrations as they were never registered in either my or my company's name. In fact, I assume I'll have to sell myself the 58 when it comes time to put it into charter and depreciate it. That's another issue I'll have to discuss with my accountant.

 

[Angela]

There are circumstances where you can carry between 7 and 12 passengers and not have to be inspected. This is called an uninspected passenger vessel and applies to vessels under 100 ton. I “think” this is called a “T boat” (relating to SubChapter T of the applicable code), but I’m not positive. Chapter 46 of the Code of Federal Regulations is the applicable code. 46 USC 2101

It is possible for an old Hatt to become an inspected, USCG certified vessel. Sanctuary was once a 49-passenger, inspected USCG certified vessel which is why you’ll find the extra high handrails on all of the decks, redundant fire suppression, throw rings with strobes, etc. I did not maintain the certification because I did not like what they did to the engine rooms to achieve that status. It was down right dangerous - all of the ER walls, including the electrical, hoses, HOSE CLAMPS, etc. had to be covered up with rockwool insulation and metal sheeting. To replace a busted hose clamp on the shaft hose, I had to disassemble a wall which took a LONG time. Needless to say, that crap didn’t go back in, and instead found its way to the nearest dumpster. The PO who did the refit for certification said they spent a tremendous amount of money doing it. To me, it’s not worth it. I don’t want more than 12 fare paying passengers, ever.

 

[GJD]

Sparky

Just happened upon your thread and have a suggestion as to how you can find folks who want to cruise. Our 53 Hatt is in Cincinnati and we agreed to offer our boat for auction at a couple of the local charitable gala events where there's typically a live auction and all the local big wigs in attendance bid up the price for a ride on my boat. A 3 hour cruise typically yields $2500 for the charity. Word got out and now my phone rings off the hook - put a stop to it actually, as this summer we will have had around 8 of these 'free rides'.

My thought is if you're interested in turning a buck, tell the locals in Chattanooga that yeah, you'll put your boat up for auction, but you must have a minimum bid of $1000 and to cover your costs you need to split the take. There's got to be a hundred annual 'gala's' down there so your potential should be great. Think about it, you're doing a good thing for charity, you get to take your boat out like crazy and you make a few bucks in the process. Bingo!

 

[REBrueckner]

"I have the 6 pack 50T right now... Am working on my 100T Unlimited but time and boats can be an issue unless you have extra time to spend on the water instead of job etc...."

I'm not up to date on all rules, but when I got my license, time aboard, at the dock for example, counted...you were not required to be actually "out on the water operating the boat"

 

[Angela]

Thanks Ang. Mind if I ask who you're insured with? I know you said you got a better rate being commercial than you were looking at as a private vessel. We can do this with PM's or phone calls, but I'm thinking other folks might like to know how all this works too.

I have a commercial policy with Markel. A request for a commercial policy doesn't get you a better rate, but rather, for me, it made the difference between getting insurance and not getting it. South Florida is the hardest place to insure an older vessel. I pay $10,500/year which includes hurricane coverage.

 

[krush]

If you want an inspected vessel, it's best to start from scratch at production time. Otherwise it's a lot of $$$ and trouble to get it up to code later in life.

 

[Sparky1]

Sparky

Just happened upon your thread and have a suggestion as to how you can find folks who want to cruise. Our 53 Hatt is in Cincinnati and we agreed to offer our boat for auction at a couple of the local charitable gala events where there's typically a live auction and all the local big wigs in attendance bid up the price for a ride on my boat. A 3 hour cruise typically yields $2500 for the charity. Word got out and now my phone rings off the hook - put a stop to it actually, as this summer we will have had around 8 of these 'free rides'.

My thought is if you're interested in turning a buck, tell the locals in Chattanooga that yeah, you'll put your boat up for auction, but you must have a minimum bid of $1000 and to cover your costs you need to split the take. There's got to be a hundred annual 'gala's' down there so your potential should be great. Think about it, you're doing a good thing for charity, you get to take your boat out like crazy and you make a few bucks in the process. Bingo!

Excellent suggestion Greg, thank you. Other than a little bit of experience with the Ducks Unlimited folks, I've never been involved in any charity auctions. Where would one come up with a list of "gala's"?

I'm actually situated quite nicely beteen Chattanooga, Knoxville, and Nashville with the marina being only a couple of miles off I-24. Maybe I need to stop posting about all this stuff before I give somebody else the idea of becoming my competition!

One other thing, my 58 came down from Cincinnati where an elderly couple (as I understand it) lived aboard it up there. Not sure how long it spent in that area, but I've already run across one couple who knew the boat from when it was there. The PO bought it in Cincinatti and brought it to Florida where I purchased it 3 years ago.

 

[Sparky1]

"I have the 6 pack 50T right now... Am working on my 100T Unlimited but time and boats can be an issue unless you have extra time to spend on the water instead of job etc...."

I'm not up to date on all rules, but when I got my license, time aboard, at the dock for example, counted...you were not required to be actually "out on the water operating the boat"

I'm pretty sure that's how Pascal came up with his 100 ton.

Sorry Pascal, I just couldn't pass that one up! LOL

 

[Pascal]

If you want an inspected vessel, it's best to start from scratch at production time. Otherwise it's a lot of $$$ and trouble to get it up to code later in life.

sure... let see... everybody has a few millions hanging around to build a 60 or 70MY from scratch!

 

[Pascal]

i'm confused about these "smaller" 6 packs, never heard of them and looking at the regs, a 6 pack is good up to 100GT. Masters come in 25, 50 and 100GT flavor, but not the OUPV

as to time, you have to be underway for time to count, forget time at the dock or even time at anchor.

 

[Sparky1]

Nobody but the US government could come up with so many meaningless guidelines. First, you can get your captain's license having never set foot on a boat. Then comes the fact you get a 100 ton master based on time spent on the water vs distance traveled on the water.

No, I'm not directed that comment at anybody, but it seems strange to think that somebody could be qualified by running their boat through a no wake zone down the ICW and back at idle speed vs somebody who would cover thousands of miles over the same time period. No doubt the latter operator would have experienced a more diverse range of operating conditions and would be much more qualfied than the former.

Then comes the part that's always baffled me... you don't have to prove you can operate a boat as there is no test for such skill. Can you imagine the carnage if driver's licenses were issued to anyone who would make the effort to memorize the rules of the road? For all the USCG knows (or cares) the hours submitted to qualify for even a 100 ton master could be filled with numerous groundings and damage during every docking attempt. I guess maybe the CG just plays the odds when it comes to such things as it would be too costly to do more than that.