'THERE IS SMOKE EVERYWHERE!!' not what you want to hear 40mi offshore....

[rustybucket]

Rusty, any chance you backed down on the port while starboard was shut down?

Nope, no backing down at all was done that day. No big fish hooked, we were either sitting/drifting or moving forward slowly.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Wouldn't the raw water impeller tell the story? Are the vanes bent over as if it was running proper rotation or backwards?

 

[osprey]

yes you can change the crankshaft bearing without removing the crankshaft. procedure is in the manual. p

 

[rsmith]

Were you able to roll in all the main bearings from the bottom without dropping the crank?

Loosen all the mains and do one at a time. You need to pop put the liners bef you start taking bearings apart. You push the liners out with the pistons. Theirs a tool that locks in the intake ports

 

[rsmith]

You’ll need a 400lb 3/4 torque wrench for the mains and caps. I bought a Used Snap on one and had it calibrated. I wouldn’t trust Chinese junk I’ve seen spun bearings after an OH and I’d bet it was due to improper torque. This was probably the most critical and hardest part of the job.

 

[Boatsb]

I call this game: "Name 3 things you never want to find in your oil pan"

You are looking at some ring pieces, what appears to be part of a liner, and an exhaust valve adjustment bolt. (note that none of my valve adjustment bolts are missing from the heads)

Could the bolt be from the other engine? It had to come from somewhere.

But seriously do you have any history on previous rebuilds? It's hard to imagine a bolt with no broken part on the engine

 

[oscarvan]

Wouldn't the raw water impeller tell the story? Are the vanes bent over as if it was running proper rotation or backwards?

I doubt they would flip..... maybe get chewed up a little where they are now against the sharp edges instead of falling off them?

 

[racclarkson@gmail.com]

They’ll flip

 

[rustybucket]

Wouldn't the raw water impeller tell the story? Are the vanes bent over as if it was running proper rotation or backwards?

I doubt they would flip..... maybe get chewed up a little where they are now against the sharp edges instead of falling off them?

I kinda thought the same thing, but.... when I had my wife bump start the starter 3 times we started the engine in forward rotation (that's when I heard the metal knocking sounds). So the raw water pump should be in normal forward rotation at this time. I have not inspected it yet but plan to. Hindsight is 20/20 of course but I wish we had never attempted to start the engine after it had shut down.

I now believe that the raw water pump would pump water the same direction no matter which direction it was turning. In reverse rotation the vanes would instantly flip the other direction and the pump should pump at least pretty close to full volume. Is there any difference between the port and stbd raw water pumps on these engines?

When I removed the turbos last night I found significant amounts of clean/fresh saltwater pooled in the exhaust side of the turbos and the insulated exhaust pipes.

Both sides contained similar amounts. I've liberally sprayed the turbos with wd40 but there's a good chance they will require a trip to the rebuilder.

So when running in reverse rotation the exhaust side of the turbos was sucking in water from the showers that are 2' downstream of the exhaust from the turbos.

I guess my current theory is that when the engines run backwards you loose oil pump (a gear pump pumps in opposite direction when reversing rotation). But you maintain raw water cooling as the rubber impeller pump would pump water the same direction no matter the direction it was spinning.

I have got my ceiling mounted unistrut/track system installed and I have assembled/bonded my chain hoist attachment sliders. I used Jb weld to laminate some parts together, so I've got to give it 24hrs to cure up before I can use the system to lift anything.

Hope to be dropping the exhaust manifolds tomorrow. Hope to be pulling the thermostat housings off the front of the heads tonight.

I've got a small crew of strong backs volunteered when I need them to get parts out.

There was no sign of previous/old water in the exhausts. This was clean fresh bluewater.

 

[rustybucket]

You’ll need a 400lb 3/4 torque wrench for the mains and caps. I bought a Used Snap on one and had it calibrated. I wouldn’t trust Chinese junk I’ve seen spun bearings after an OH and I’d bet it was due to improper torque. This was probably the most critical and hardest part of the job.

Good point. I've got access to a really good one, but where would you get one calibrated?

 

[racclarkson@gmail.com]

I kinda thought the same thing, but.... when I had my wife bump start the starter 3 times we started the engine in forward rotation (that's when I heard the metal knocking sounds). So the raw water pump should be in normal forward rotation at this time. I have not inspected it yet but plan to. Hindsight is 20/20 of course but I wish we had never attempted to start the engine after it had shut down.I now believe that the raw water pump would pump water the same direction no matter which direction it was turning. In reverse rotation the vanes would instantly flip the other direction and the pump should pump at least pretty close to full volume. Is there any difference between the port and stbd raw water pumps on these engines?When I removed the turbos last night I found significant amounts of clean/fresh saltwater pooled in the exhaust side of the turbos and the insulated exhaust pipes.Both sides contained similar amounts. I've liberally sprayed the turbos with wd40 but there's a good chance they will require a trip to the rebuilder.So when running in reverse rotation the exhaust side of the turbos was sucking in water from the showers that are 2' downstream of the exhaust from the turbos.I guess my current theory is that when the engines run backwards you loose oil pump (a gear pump pumps in opposite direction when reversing rotation). But you maintain raw water cooling as the rubber impeller pump would pump water the same direction no matter the direction it was spinning.I have got my ceiling mounted unistrut/track system installed and I have assembled/bonded my chain hoist attachment sliders. I used Jb weld to laminate some parts together, so I've got to give it 24hrs to cure up before I can use the system to lift anything.Hope to be dropping the exhaust manifolds tomorrow. Hope to be pulling the thermostat housings off the front of the heads tonight.I've got a small crew of strong backs volunteered when I need them to get parts out.There was no sign of previous/old water in the exhausts. This was clean fresh bluewater.

The fuel and coolant pumps are gear driven as well as the blower. I can see coolant pump pumping in reverse, but have no idea re the other.

 

[rustybucket]

Correction to the post above, the raw water pump would be flow direction specific based on rotation. So if the engine were running in reverse the raw water circuit would have been running backwards as well, so the water in the engine had to happen on the initial few seconds of running until the water ran dry.

 

[rustybucket]

Ok, sharing these images with a general disclaimer 'do not try this at home....etc'.

I pulled both exhaust manifolds and both heads off Sunday. I did this solo with the exception of getting one lifted out of the ER through the hatch and onto the dock, and the other from the salon carried out the door and onto the dock. Thanks to Bob and Tom for helping me get them off the boat and up the hill! Quite a workout!

The heads are up the hill and in the shop waiting for me to finish disassembling the rockers...etc.

 

[rustybucket]

Outboard side head prepped for lifting. I transferred the weight from the chain hoists to the come along gradually by loosening one side, while drawing in line on the come along. It went smoother than I had hoped, was a very controlled process.

The come along hoisted the head above floor level. The hatch cover was slid under it.

A 34" 2x4 was strapped to the head to protect the rollers. The come along was lowered slowly as the head and 2x4 laid down onto a rolling movers dolly. The same process was repeated on the inboard head except it was lowered to the floor onto the dolly so it could be rolled aft to the engine room hatch

Have not closely examined the block yet but upon first inspection the heads did not show any signs of cracks.

 

[madhatter1]

Rusty, at this point do you know what kicked off the failure? If this happened to me I would be forced to shovel all my boat bucks to fix. Not as handy as you are. Do appreciate the great details on this thread as well as the one on the boatdiesel site.

 

[rustybucket]

Rusty, at this point do you know what kicked off the failure? If this happened to me I would be forced to shovel all my boat bucks to fix. Not as handy as you are. Do appreciate the great details on this thread as well as the one on the boatdiesel site.

At this point all clues/signs point to the engine cranking in reverse rotation, running without oil and raw water for some time until it seized itself. Now sure how exactly or when exactly and how long exactly it did this. I shutdown and started up that engine several times throughout the morning, I guess the last time I shut it down (or started it up) I didn't keep my finger on the button long enough and it rolled over in reverse rotation.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Recommended idle speed per the manual is 550. How low did you have that one set?

 

[oscarvan]

After some extensive Googleization and reading of numerous instances of these engines reversing I have made a mental note to hold the buttons a second or two longer, especially the shutdown........

As a BTW, the way to stop it is to put it in high gear, keep your foot on the brake and pop the clutch. Yeah nah, not so much on our boats. A piece of plywood over the exhaust is about the only thing you can do......

 

[SeaEric]

As a BTW, the way to stop it is to put it in high gear, keep your foot on the brake and pop the clutch. Yeah nah, not so much on our boats. A piece of plywood over the exhaust is about the only thing you can do......

Isn't this what the "emergency shutdown" spring loaded air flaps are for?

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Running backwards is not a common occurrence, especially in boats. I've had it happen once on a truck but I've never heard of it happening on a boat. I don't think it happened to Rusty and I don't think you have to worry about. Just my opinion after growing up around these engines for 50 years.