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synthetic oil

Good to hear from you, Lonnie !! How is Green Eyed Girl??

Actually I DID get some stuff done on warranty on my Cummins engines. But the warranty is long gone. I have an oil change coming up....maybe I'll get adventurous with it this time...
 
Dino multiweight oils resulted in a number of premature failures in Detroits, which is why they withdrew the approval. To the best of my knowledge nobody has put the time on the synthetics to see if the same issues arise. I would not expect them to exhibit the same problem but if they do, you're the laboratory.

My understanding was that the viscosity improvers in the multiweight oils broke down and the failures were at the injector lobes on the camshaft. Not a great place to have a failure either, considering the trouble you go through changing a camshaft on a Detroit, especially in a boat.

Without bypass filtration on the engine - which is not on most recreational engines - you're going to be changing it to get the crud out before you get the benefit of the extended change intervals anyway.
 
Another "concern" that some state regarding switching to synthetic on an older engine is (i've only heard of this, never experienced):

Because an old engine may have worn seals with sludge/gunk in them...and the gunk is actually keeping them from leaking worse...synethic may clean out said gunk and increase leakage from seals.


Now this is just talk I've heard, but it does make some sense. I switched over a few higher milage 10 year old cars and never had a problem though.

My point would be that using synthetic earlier in the life of the engine would probably reduce wear on seals.
 
krush said:
Another "concern" that some state regarding switching to synthetic on an older engine is (i've only heard of this, never experienced):

Because an old engine may have worn seals with sludge/gunk in them...and the gunk is actually keeping them from leaking worse...synethic may clean out said gunk and increase leakage from seals.


Now this is just talk I've heard, but it does make some sense. I switched over a few higher milage 10 year old cars and never had a problem though.

My point would be that using synthetic earlier in the life of the engine would probably reduce wear on seals.
Click to expand...

Your correct on all your statements. It was the same back when straight weight oils were the only oil for your engine. Then detergent oils came out and everyone said use detergent oil in your engine and clean it up. Well all of a sudden all the old cars started leaking oil and they all started smoking. The detergent was cleaning all right. It was removing any build up of carbon around the rings and was now letting the oil get into the cylinders causing smoke. Boy was every guy POed. I think that if you look at the engine build of the foreign sports cars and bikes. You would see strange rod and cank diameters. There engines were designed for lots of RPMs and were using lots of small diameters. It's a lot eraser to hold a smaller dia. tolerance than it is to hold a large dia. like we use in the states. They were turning 10, 15,000. rpms when we thought 7,000 rpm was fast. Ducati had 2, 4 cyl 4 stroke engine that would turn 18.000 rpms in 1968. One was a 125cc and one a 250cc. They sounded like a sewing machine. History repeats it's self.

BILL
 
Jimmy,
Be prepared the Valvoline synthetic is about $25.00 gal.
Were your engines covered under the class action suit about a drain on the air cooler box?
Lonnie
 
jim rosenthal said:
Good to hear from you, Lonnie !! How is Green Eyed Girl??

Actually I DID get some stuff done on warranty on my Cummins engines. But the warranty is long gone. I have an oil change coming up....maybe I'll get adventurous with it this time...
Click to expand...



The thing about synthetic in boats for most of us is it say's xxxx miles or once a year.
So unless your doing 200 hrs plus it just does not pay. Jim Tony has covered this on boat diesel . I use the Valvoline blue in my 330 b's change it every fall right before haul.

Just saw Valvoline synthetic in Walmart $ 29 for 5 quarts so you need 6 of them and have some left over.
 
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Lonnie, I did not know anything about a suit on air box drains. Does that apply to B series Cummins engines? I could also write to Tony Athens and ask him. Any particulars you want to share? I know you have M11s in your boat.
 
"Looks like it meets all 4-stroke diesel engine specs "

AND it meets current gas motor specs as well... Pretty much a "one oil fits all!" Except for DDs!
 
34Hatt said:
The thing about synthetic in boats for most of us is it say's xxxx miles or once a year.
Click to expand...

Is it necessary to change once a year for the heck of it?
 
That's another of those "standard" recommendations that has been around as long as I can recall. "every X miles/hours or annually, whichever occurs first."

The concern has always been moisture in the oil which can combine with the sulphur products in the oil and produce acid which can then damage bearings, etc. The moisture is a natural product of the combustion process so it's going to be there anytime the engines are run. But if engines are run to operating temp, moisture boils/evaporates off/out and there is no issue. So the problem is with engines that are run but not taken up to operating temp.
 
krush said:
Is it necessary to change once a year for the heck of it?
Click to expand...

Yes because of moisture.

I have talked with many different mechanic and running it up to temp is not enough for removing the moisture from the oil!So they have all said Just change it!!!! So do you risk it or change it?

Damm I met a chemical engineer in July up on the Hudson worked for Castrol for over 20 years this would have been a good question. :(
 
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There's a simple, old test for moisture in the oil. Pull the dipstick and hold a cig lighter flame under the oil on the stick. If the oil "crackles" there is moisture and the oil should be changed; if it doesn't crackle, there's no moisture and changing for that reason is not necessary.
 
I thought oil and water don't mix.

So oil goes bad just sitting there for the dock queens? Does it go bad sitting on the shelf in the jug too?
 
krush said:
I thought oil and water don't mix.

So oil goes bad just sitting there for the dock queens? Does it go bad sitting on the shelf in the jug too?
Click to expand...

Sealed Jug! Not surrounded by tons of metal getting warm then cold causing it to condensate.
And for some of us NON dock queens we have to haul for that thing called winter!

Been on that Island out in the sun to long Krush?
 
I store all my oil with nitrogen on the top and reseal it for long term and the small bottles I use a little vacuum pump so no oxygen or moisture can contaminate it. It makes a big difference in how long it can be stored.
 
Mike's post #15 about multiweight oils shortening two cycle DD operating life has appeared here before. I remember it specifically because shortly thereafter I was aboard a number of commerical boats in 2002 in Nova Scotia. I was stuck in fog for about a week in a commercial harbor and decided to change oil in my Hatt....I got the only five gallon pails of straight 40 wt oil in that harbor..and the local store had hundreds of five gallon pails of lube oil......ALL the boats used used 15w40!!! Even in the summer when I was there....I could not believe it...so as I was aboard a half dozen or so boats I asked...sure enough they confirmed their use of multiweight oil and all had two cycle DD.

In addition, I have seen reports, I think from DD, that in 2 cycle turbo Detroits the multweight oil fouls turbo blades...don't remember the details but I posted that a long time ago.
 
All this talk kind of got me thinking....

With all the "must do's" with oil and "rules" to make the engine last a long time and many hours, it can get a bit confusing at times.

However, for an engine to last 5 or 10,000 hours, it means the owner must actually use it ;)
 
I'm going to throw this out there as food for thought....

We all seem to be obsessed with the amount of Sulfated Ash in our Dino oils for our Two Stroke DD. There have been many discussion on the forum regarding this topic. If I recall correctly, DDC has published a couple of papers on the matter stating the amount of sulfated Ash needs to be less than 1% by wt. With this said, what would the advantages be by putting in Synthetic oil if its Sulfated Ash is above 1%?

example:
Mobil 1, 0W-40 Synthetic Engine Oil
Sulfated Ash, wt% 1.3 (ASTM D874)
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_0W-40.aspx
 
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