Stupid Stupid Stupid

[mstailey]

I'm one of those odd-balls who has the vhf on all the time and heard the call when it came in.

For those who pilot a boat and drink-

This bud's for you....

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St. Clair County sheriff's marine division divers discovered the body of 14-year-old Tyler Doughty early Sunday submerged in the Anchor Bay area of Lake St. Clair -- the latest in a string of drownings or near-drownings in Metro Detroit.

"It's been a terrible summer for drownings around here," said Lt. Tim Donnellon of the St. Clair County Sheriff's Department. "It's just an extremely tragic and disheartening event for this family."

Doughty was thrown from the boat about 11:30 p.m. Saturday when the vessel collided with another watercraft.

Divers searched for Doughty until 2 a.m. Sunday and resumed the search at 8 a.m. Sunday; Doughty was found at 8:45 a.m., according to the U.S. Coast Guard Detroit station.

Investigators believe Doughty was sleeping below deck in a day-cabin cruiser driven by his father when another boat hit their vessel, Donnellon said. Officers said alcohol may have been a factor in the crash.

"(The second boat) struck (the Doughtys' boat) in the bow and ripped a large hole in the front of the boat," he said. "The boy was down there asleep, and he was ejected out of the boat."

Two passengers from the second boat were treated at St. John River District Hospital in St. Clair and released. The incident remains under investigation.

 

[Freebird]

What a shame! I can't imagine what it would be like to have something happen like that to my 3 year old who often naps below while we are underway. One thing is for sure, as much as I kid around about drinking and boating, I would NEVER operate a boat while under the influence. I hope to God I am never in that situation where a drunk hits me and hurts my little fellow. I would be certainly brought up on murder charges shortly after such an accident.

 

[Pascal]

very very sad and unfortunately all to frequent.

but, it takes two to tango.. hmmm... to crash so unless the drunk.. sorry... alleged drunk didn't have any lights on, the other boat is partially responsible.

alcohol and boating doesn't mix, especially at night since night vision is drastically affected by alcohol.

 

[Freebird]

very very sad and unfortunately all to frequent.

but, it takes two to tango.. hmmm... to crash so unless the drunk.. sorry... alleged drunk didn't have any lights on, the other boat is partially responsible.

Pascal,

Give it a rest! Placing any blame on the driver of the boat that was hit is absurd!!! Are you a defense attorney or something? Would the victim of a head on collison on a highway be responsible for not swerving in time as to avoid a drunk driver heading towards them at 90mph? I think not. This type of "accident" is inexcusable and is nothing short of first degree murder!!!

 

[Genesis]

The way the COLREGS (and inland rules) are written it is essentially impossible to be absolved of guilt for a collision if your vessel is legally underway.

You get a pass ONLY if you are anchored, docked or disabled (and in two of those cases ONLY if displaying the proper lights/shapes/sounds!)

 

[Pascal]

inexcusable, absolutely.

however, this is not about a collision on the highway... it's about a collision on the water. The Nav Rules are pretty clear on this... and as tragic as it is, the vessel that was hit was either not maintaining a proper watch and / or did not take action to avoid the collision.

 

[Freebird]

Why don't you guys call up the father of that boy who was killed and tell him he was partially at fault? Quote all the regs you want, my point is there was no reason for that boy to die!!! What's wrong with this picture??? Why would any one want to defend the SOB who made the decision to drink and drive?

 

[Avenger]

Geez guys, play nice!

One point that I may have missed is exactly who was drunk. I don't see any mention of the intoxicated parties, only that alcohol may have played a part. No mention of arrests either. There's a lot of politics surrounding alcohol today, and a lot of rush to judgement in tragic cases like this. We have a guy around here who campaigns for a group of angry women, telling everybody the tragic story of how his daughter and her friends were killed in a head-on with a guy who was intoxicated. The detail he keeps leaving out was that the car his daughter was in was the one on the wrong side of the road. This doesn't absolve the drunk of being drunk but he's a victim in this case.

My point is simply that we don't have all the facts in our hands. And while I, especially as a parent, find this upsetting too, we shouldn't be beating each other up over a news story. No matter what, these people are stuck with the consequences. Hopefully justice will prevail.

 

[Genesis]

Yep.

I am not defending the drunk boater.

I am pointing out that the rules (and the LAW) on the water are not the same as the rules (and the law) on the road.

On the water, it is virtually impossible not to be tagged with some of the fault if there is a collision and you are legally under way.

In the last month near here there was a CC that was run over by a barge! He was fishing in a navigation channel and not paying attention. He recognized the danger when he heard the bow wake of the barge being pushed ahead! By then it was too late to do anything about it. He had the presence of mind to run amidships on the gunnel and jump onto the barge at the moment of impact, and by doing so, escaped what was otherwise almost certain death.

He was cited for failure to maintain a proper lookout (duh.) The Tug Captain was cited for failure to sound proper signals - in this case, DANGER!

I have had some close calls where I was forced to take EXTREME evasive maneuvers after another boater did something both totally unexpected and totally prohibited by the navigation rules. That the other guy did something farm-animal stupid would not have given me a pass if I had hit him! Yes, he would have gotten more of the blame, but I would not have been absolved.

That's the way it is on the water. If you want absolution when there is a wreck, remain tied to the dock or drive a car.

On the water there are no lane lines - and no absolution when collisions occur.

 

[Freebird]

Sorry to get so fired up about this thread. As I stated, I have a 3 year old son, and I cannot imagine what that father is going through. I'm sure he is second guessing himself about being out a night as well as a whole laundry list of why didn't I's, or what if's. This thread is just a reminder of how too much input can be a bad thing. When something is clearly wrong, an innocent kid has been killed, what is the point in saying anything other than it shouldn't have happened? And for those who insist on getting ship-faced and heading out in their boats, think about that kid. I'm sure that's what the author of this thread had in mind when he posted it. This wasn't a thread asking for advice on legal interpretations of boating accidents. Just got a little PO'd when it went in that direction. No offense to anyone other than the jack-ass responsible for that boy's death, whomever it may turn out to be.

 

[Freebird]

Yep.

On the water, it is virtually impossible not to be tagged with some of the fault if there is a collision and you are legally under way.

Karl,

On the above statement, are there no mitigating circumstances which determine fault? You mention the CC vs Barge scenario. Surely the skipper of the barge could not be held liable for the ignorance of the CC skipper as he clearly had the right of way.

It's easy to avoid of a collision between similar vessels i.e. two thirty footers going for the same piece of water as long as it is either in daylite, or at night assuming both vessels are showing appropriate lighting. Dodging an idiot piloted small fast boat when you are piloting a big Hatt is a different matter. There's only so much you can do to get out of the way.

I encounter small boat operators all the time on the river who do not understand the simple basic rules of right of way. To that end, I've had 90mph bass boats busting out of hidden coves only to cross 50 feet off my port bow. You just have to hope these guys haven't had one too many and can dodge you when you can't dodge them.

Under such circumstances, am I going to be on the hook if one of these wannabe race boat drivers does a PT-109 into my Hatt? I would think not, but with our legal system, who knows?

 

[Pascal]

"I am pointing out that the rules (and the LAW) on the water are not the same as the rules (and the law) on the road. "

and one big difference and misunderstanding is the Right of Way concept.

notice these words do not appear anywhere in the nav rules ? it's all about keeping out of the way, not impeding passage, etc... the only reference to Right of Way in the rules is in the inland rules dealing with up/downbound vessels.

in all other scenario, there is no such concept as Right of Way.

 

[J's Dream]

in all other scenario, there is no such concept as Right of Way.

There is one place right of way is stated, as we learned in Captains school...

New Reels Catch Fish So Purchase Some

Each words first letter is in the order of right of way:

N - NOT UNDER COMMAND vessels
R - RESTRICTED IN ABILITY TO MANEUVER
C - CONSTRAINED BY DRAFT
F - FISHING VESSELS (NOT you and me with 4 lines out back...commercial with trawls, etc.)
S - SAILING VESSELS (only when powered by wind ONLY)
P - POWERBOATS
S - SEAPLANES

This is in order from having the most right of way to having the least.

 

[ThirdHatt]

AH! Another proud SeaSchool Graduate! That's the first time I've seen that since class ended back in '04! Thanks for the reminder, it's about time I thumb through my book again. I'm getting rusty!

 

[J's Dream]

AH! Another proud SeaSchool Graduate! That's the first time I've seen that since class ended back in '04! Thanks for the reminder, it's about time I thumb through my book again. I'm getting rusty!

It's about time I renew my license again! It's amazing how much stuff you don't realize you learned after taking that class. I went through my books a few months ago, and it all (well, most of it) came back to me. For some reason, I can never remember the sound signals, in fog, is it one prolonged every two mins??? and when leaving a slip, is it one prolonged? who knows!!! I guess it's time to look through the book again!

Jason

 

[Paul45c]

It's about time I renew my license again! It's amazing how much stuff you don't realize you learned after taking that class. I went through my books a few months ago, and it all (well, most of it) came back to me. For some reason, I can never remember the sound signals, in fog, is it one prolonged every two mins??? and when leaving a slip, is it one prolonged? who knows!!! I guess it's time to look through the book again!

Jason

Y'know, I keep my Chapman's Piloting (after getting my Power Squadrons ticket about 24 years ago) on board, and every now and then actually crack the cover. It's still almost impossible to remember even the important things, but I keep trying...

 

[Pascal]

Jason

actually rule 18 which spells the pecking order does NOT mention right of way, instead it states which vessel shall stay out of the way...

subtle difference... which i understand as meaning that no vessel is granted an absolute right; instead, others need to keep out of the way... This underlines the fact that both vessels still must avoid an impending collision.

 

[yachtsmanbill]

I like that NRCFSPS-- That ranks right up there with Timid Virgins Make Dull Companions. Crazy things like that make it easy to remember. ws

 

[J's Dream]

I like that NRCFSPS-- That ranks right up there with Timid Virgins Make Dull Companions. Crazy things like that make it easy to remember. ws

Ahhhh! The compass thing! Now if I used that EVER, I probably would remember it! I know how, just never need it (sort of like how to determine course across a current at various speeds, thats what a GPS is for)...but they're good things to know and never use...Just in case.

 

[yachtsmanbill]

True Variation Magnetic Deviation Compass -- I guess me whiskers is showin' arghh. Being from the old school, analog that is, I run that through the grey matter all the time. I always plot on paper before that plutonium battery craps
out !! Usually at the wrong time, of course. ws