On Repowering / Refitting a 1985 45C

[solanderi]

I have read and re-read all the threads I could find regarding Repowering a 45C. My 45C Hat Time has never run better than it has right now and has about 2370 hours on the DD 692's and going strong. I want to repower to benefit from a little more performance and as well as enjoy nicer manners of the 4 stroke diesels. I hope I can get a few of the Captains who have repowered and re-fit their rigs to chime in.

While the boat is in for the repower, I would like to have numerous other details attended to. Here is the little laundry list I come up with and very round, ballpark numbers for the repower. Dont know about the cost of the other bullets on the list. I would appreciate any info/ball park prices from those that may know.

1. Complete Turn-Key Repower with qsm 11's / ZF gears ( $ 200 k )
2. Replace Sliding Salon Windows with fixed ones ( $ )
3. New Helm Console ( $ )
4. Upgrade to Furuno 3D Radar/Plotter ( $ )
5. ? Convert the Engine Room Access to communicate thru the Lazerette if possible ? ( $ )
6. Repair/Replace Teak Covering Boards ( $ )
7. Lay down Amtico floors to all the interior spaces ( $ )
8. Upgrade interior soft coverings on couches, etc ( $ )
9. Replace AC's ( $ )
10. New Tackle Center /Eskimo ice maker install / install Mezzanine seating ( $ )
11. Transom live well ( $ )
12. Possibly replace Hardtop if needed ( $ )

I have already been in contact with Roger Wetherington and while he is no longer at Jarret Bay he has already been a valuable resource. Of course a decision has to be made on which yard gets my business including the Hatteras Refit Center.

I sincerely appreciate any real world experiences or numbers that the HOF can come up with. Especially I would like to know if anyone has converted their ER access to the Lazarette. Thank you,

Greg

 

[saltshaker]

That's a very ambitious project. Given the scope of work, I think your choice of yards will be a bit limited. I would want a good yard that can handle everything and has the experience fabricating what you are looking for. Not sure I would consider the Hatteras refit center given Brunswick's desire to sell off Hatteras. I also don't know if that would be the right project for them either. There are some very competent builders in NC that also do top notch refits. If you do it in Fl then you have yards like Cable or Roscioli that can handle the work. When I think of a Hatteras refit that includes so much custom work, then Slane Marine comes to mind. They make most of the parts that the other guys will need for your project. I'm not familiar with your tank layout but cockpit ER access might be tough. Is there room to cut access in the middle of the aft bulkhead? Are the tanks in the way? Keep in mind you end up loosing all that bulkhead space aft and need to figure out where the generator will go. Great choice in power. The 715HP QSM11's will make that boat fly. Don't forget you'll need to rework your running gear. The 2" shafts aren't enough for anything over 550-600HP unless you go with shallow reduction gears. Not the best move performance wise.

 

[GOLE IV]

GoleIV is a 45C 1973 series I and I repower with Yammar 6LY3A ETP at half your estimate in 2007. Top speed ant WOT is about 27 k with clean bottom.
Dont know if there is any hull change from 73 to 85, might need some modification to controll all those HP and speed
I also change the acces to the engine room to the cockpit. I posted some photos on the Gallery
Good luck

 

[saltshaker]

GoleIV is a 45C 1973 series I and I repower with Yammar 6LY3A ETP at half your estimate in 2007. Top speed ant WOT is about 27 k with clean bottom.
Dont know if there is any hull change from 73 to 85, might need some modification to controll all those HP and speed
I also change the acces to the engine room to the cockpit. I posted some photos on the Gallery
Good luck

Big difference between the two boats. Your 45 has the 2 cockpit tanks and a much bigger ER. The 45C series II doesn't have as big of a keel so the speed issue isn't as big of a concern. I think 200K is high for just the engine swap unless he's including the new running gear and a generator.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Your best bet for this repower and associated work is Slane Marine. They are the only outfit that actually makes the update parts you need such as the helm console, and they have done more of these than any other shop. They have also done several repowers with these engines and those boats have performed very well indeed- video of sea trials on at least one of them is up on YT.

Full refits of old Hatteras yachts are what they do for a living, so they are the logical place to go. They have also done the mezzanine conversion, which I saw on one of my trips there, and it looked terrific. It included engine room access from the aft deck, if memory serves me right. And they have molds for the transom live well and also a bait center to go in the mezzanine as well.

As far as "a little more performance", I think you're going to have more than a little. The last 45 C-II that I was on which was repowered with M11s hit 34 knots on her sea trials with the engines only loaded to 93% of full power- she needed about two more inches of pitch per wheel, they thought. And at that time, M11s were rated at 600+ hp, not the 715 they are now. What size shafts you need is partly dependent on the gear reduction ratio as well as the horsepower of each engine. You might be able to get up to 2 1/4" shafts with the current logs and tubes, using thinwall bearings, but beyond that the stern tubes will need to be replaced with bigger ones. Which they have ample experience with as well.

This sounds like a big project, but at the end of it, you'll have the fastest and nicest 45C-II out there. A lot of folks will be staring at your transom as you disappear over the horizon.

 

[Bugsy]

Price to me for a re-power on a 43C (VERY similar to your boat) was $110,000. to $143,000. (highest yard) for Cummins 550's. I checked with three yards---two in SE Florida and one in Michigan.That price included Z-gears and all instrumentation and re-finishing the engine room---turn key.

I was strongly encouraged to stay away from QSM 11's because of the limited benefit given all of the modifications required.

I was told I would PROBABLY not have the problem with the QSM's that the 46C has because of the difference in hull speed but....

The 550 Cummins would give a cruise speed of 26 kts. projected at a remarkably efficient fuel burn---35 gph?

 

[solanderi]

Thank you for the recommendations. I definitely must consider Slane. The engine room access thru the cockpit is not the highest priority but rather something that might keep noise and engine room bouquet out of the living spaces.......maybe. Or maybe the 4 strokes will be quieter and more "well mannered" and the outside ER access becomes less relevant.

What I really want to at least get done are the motors/gears, windows and console.

Thank you for any help.

Greg
North Bay Village, FL

 

[saltshaker]

Thank you for the recommendations. I definitely must consider Slane. The engine room access thru the cockpit is not the highest priority but rather something that might keep noise and engine room bouquet out of the living spaces.......maybe. Or maybe the 4 strokes will be quieter and more "well mannered" and the outside ER access becomes less relevant.

What I really want to at least get done are the motors/gears, windows and console.

Thank you for any help.

Greg
North Bay Village, FL

There are a few here who've repowered their 45's with engines in the 650-700HP range. Hopefully they'll chime in and give you some insight as to what they did with the running gear. When I repowered my 46C, 550HP was about the limit without changing the 2" shafts unless I dropped down to a 1.5:1 gear. You might get away with 1.5:1 gears and the 660HP QSM11's but that's too close for comfort for me. I also think the boat will perform a bit better with 1.75:1 or 2:1 gears.

 

[solanderi]

I admittedly have a LOT to learn and am very appreciative of any help. I am also hoping that the other 45C repower owners join in with their experience and advice. I have been interested in this project for years and now finally, after Capt Coop, George, St Tully etc have posted their amazing projects, I may be able to go forward with mine. This has been a family boat which we have owned since 2005 and we think that after we get her freshened up, she will continue bringing us back safely from our adventures for a long time to come.

 

[RT46]

Or you could buy a minted out 45C for less than what you will pay to execute your wish list on your boat.......

also eonsider the price/cost of your aggrivation, you just cant put a number on that.

 

[RT46]

Or you could buy a minted out 45C for less than what you will pay to execute your wish list on your boat.......

also eonsider the price/cost of your aggrivation, you just cant put a number on that.

 

[hromberg]

I was told I would PROBABLY not have the problem with the QSM's that the 46C has because of the difference in hull speed but....

What problems were those? I've got a 46C series II. Curious about the issue and the hull form difference in case I need to look at a repower some day.

 

[Tim Powell]

I have read and re-read all the threads I could find regarding Repowering a 45C. My 45C Hat Time has never run better than it has right now and has about 2370 hours on the DD 692's and going strong. I want to repower to benefit from a little more performance and as well as enjoy nicer manners of the 4 stroke diesels. I hope I can get a few of the Captains who have repowered and re-fit their rigs to chime in.

While the boat is in for the repower, I would like to have numerous other details attended to. Here is the little laundry list I come up with and very round, ballpark numbers for the repower. Dont know about the cost of the other bullets on the list. I would appreciate any info/ball park prices from those that may know.

1. Complete Turn-Key Repower with qsm 11's / ZF gears ( $ 200 k )
2. Replace Sliding Salon Windows with fixed ones ( $ )
3. New Helm Console ( $ )
4. Upgrade to Furuno 3D Radar/Plotter ( $ )
5. ? Convert the Engine Room Access to communicate thru the Lazerette if possible ? ( $ )
6. Repair/Replace Teak Covering Boards ( $ )
7. Lay down Amtico floors to all the interior spaces ( $ )
8. Upgrade interior soft coverings on couches, etc ( $ )
9. Replace AC's ( $ )
10. New Tackle Center /Eskimo ice maker install / install Mezzanine seating ( $ )
11. Transom live well ( $ )
12. Possibly replace Hardtop if needed ( $ )

I have already been in contact with Roger Wetherington and while he is no longer at Jarret Bay he has already been a valuable resource. Of course a decision has to be made on which yard gets my business including the Hatteras Refit Center.

I sincerely appreciate any real world experiences or numbers that the HOF can come up with. Especially I would like to know if anyone has converted their ER access to the Lazarette. Thank you,

Greg

there was a 1986 45c that had about all the things done to it you are wishing for that was sold to a a hof member the origional name was HATTABOY. The work was done here in NC The boat sold for somewhere around 185 to 200 two to three years ago. The boat is in wilmington NC the owner may chime in. I know the people who did the work. If you would like the numbers just ask. I also know the people who had it done. They now have a wanchese boat STREAMMACHINE they live in Knightdale NC they are a grate bunch of guys and will be glad to share with you.

Some important info !! It was fast and a fish catching machine,
Send me a pm if you would like the information Tim

 

[solanderi]

Thank you. PM sent.

Thats the other "Thing". We have nothing but great things to say about our 1985 45C. And if I had the above laundry list done, I would have the boat set-up exactly how I envision using it, for a long time to come. It turns out, trading for another 45 would be just as nice but minus the hassle of actually doing the work plus no significant down time, all done at a better price. Also you can check out the finished product and not have to theorize how it may turn out. Win, Win and Win.

Regarding the Wanchese boat, there is a giant list of Custom Carolina Sportfisherman for sale at very competitive prices. While our Hatterases are THE ORIGINAL Carolina bad boys, there are some pretty nice deals out there on the likes of Jarret Bay, Spencer, Blackwell, Ricky Scarborough etc. They are not fiberglass tanks per se but rather cold molded, fiberglass over wood frame. So I dont know if I'm comparing apples to apples. I have also mulled over trading my rig plus cash for one of those. I don't know enough about those to make an informed decision.........yet. Anyone who wants to weigh in and compare the Carolina Customs to the Classic Hats would teach me a lot.

My limiting factors are the draft behind my house and the length of the dock. I would like to stay less than 55 feet and not more that 4'6" draft. Thats why trying to understand where the REFIT will come in pricewise, becomes important.

Recently, as well as at the Miami Boat Show, I even looked at some 2004 54 Hatteras GT 's. Draft for those is actually 4 inches less than my 45 because they have prop pockets. I would only consider the smaller motor version offered with the Cat C-18's for longevity and my real world expection of never needing a cruise speed more than 26 or a top end north of 30. Even 2004's are still fetching a pretty penny in the high 700's. More than I want (can) spend. So back to the Pimp My Hat channel. Thank you for any thoughts, musings or chatter on the subject.

Greg

 

[saltshaker]

Cold molded Carolina boats are beautiful and some have a fantastic ride. They don't compare to the build and design quality of a Hatteras. Hatteras systems are very well engineered. None of the Carolina customs come close. Don't forget about the huge amount of maintenance to keep those boats looking good. Stick with a Hatt. The draft issue will be tough. the 54C series II is about the only one that will meet your requirements. The Cat C18's are great engines but don't be afraid of the C30's/C32's. They're based on the 3412's which is one of the best marine engines Cat has built. Resale will be strongest with the bigger engines.

 

[Bugsy]

What problems were those? I've got a 46C series II. Curious about the issue and the hull form difference in case I need to look at a repower some day.

My friend had his 46 re-powered with QSM's. He reported that at about 24 kts., the boat was "chine walking" and became difficult to control. A fellow at Cummins told me that this was a result of the hull design of the 46.

Cautionary note: I know nothing. I am simply repeating and doing my best to be an accurate parrot..

My friend reports that he and his wife are quite happy at 22 kts. so this "limitation" has not posed any problem.

Cummins told me that the speed would NOT be a problem on my 43C.

 

[saltshaker]

My friend had his 46 re-powered with QSM's. He reported that at about 24 kts., the boat was "chine walking" and became difficult to control. A fellow at Cummins told me that this was a result of the hull design of the 46.

Cautionary note: I know nothing. I am simply repeating and doing my best to be an accurate parrot..

My friend reports that he and his wife are quite happy at 22 kts. so this "limitation" has not posed any problem.

Cummins told me that the speed would NOT be a problem on my 43C.

There are ways to fix this. My 46C was perfectly stable even at 26kts. You won't have the same issues with a series II 45C.

 

[solanderi]

Here's one example of a Carolina boat to compare to a vintage Hat.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...mp;-Johnson-2514274/Cape-May/NJ/United-States

Following is a representative 2003 54 GT. The dollar difference between the trade in value of my rig to the asking price of these makes repowering my 45 the easy choice. The delta is about 650K.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2004/Hatteras-54-CONVERTIBLE-2391376/Pompano/FL/United-States

 

[jim rosenthal]

You would also get another eight or nine feet of length, more beam, etc. Don't get me wrong, I had a boat I loved and repowered it (twice, but that's another story)- I would do exactly as you are thinking, especially if I felt the boat was big enough for my uses and didn't want to sell it. Which is exactly what I did think. No regrets there.

I suspect the Series II 45C is a better candidate for high-speed running because it's keel is shallower. Of course, how often do you NEED to go thirty knots and burn all that fuel? But if you already own one of those hulls, so much the better.

 

[saltshaker]

Here's one example of a Carolina boat to compare to a vintage Hat.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...mp;-Johnson-2514274/Cape-May/NJ/United-States

Following is a representative 2003 54 GT. The dollar difference between the trade in value of my rig to the asking price of these makes repowering my 45 the easy choice. The delta is about 650K.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2004/Hatteras-54-CONVERTIBLE-2391376/Pompano/FL/United-States

I think you're comparing apples to oranges. The 54C is much more boat than the 45C will ever be. Not only is she much bigger, the ride and performance are miles ahead of what the 45C will be when done. From a financial stand point, you'll loose a lot more money in the 45C refit than you would on the purchase of the 54C. You're talking a considerable difference in dollars and boat. The 54C is a popular boat with fisherman but most want the faster boats with the bigger Cats. The earlier boats didn't have the C18's and there are a couple that might be cheaper than you think. Find out what the 54C are actually selling for and then get some accurate estimates of your repower. You may be surprised to find the spread isn't nearly as big as you think. If you can swing the extra for the 54C, go for it. It's a much better boat and immensely better investment. If a refit Hatt with a shallow draft is what you need, try this one.
http://www.samsmarine.com/forums/showthread.php?20880-SLANE-Hatteras-53-Convertible-1979-2010