New Salon door suggestions?

[Captned]

Greetings all,

I'm looking to replace my salon door with one with more glass in it. I have some water leaks in this door and I would like to get one made. I have thought of having this one cut down and having glass installed but I'm worried that I might just dig myself a deeper hole. Or can I just buy a door some where that is pre made? That thing on the left of the door is a "Phantom" hide a sceen door. Works great.

Thanks in advance,

Captned
78 46 CON

Oh yea, I'm not worried about falling through the glass door in rough seas since I only go out about 6 times a year!

 

[Starman]

Greetings all,

I'm looking to replace my salon door with one with more glass in it. I have some water leaks in this door and I would like to get one made. I have thought of having this one cut down and having glass installed but I'm worried that I might just dig myself a deeper hole. Or can I just buy a door some where that is pre made? That thing on the left of the door is a "Phantom" hide a sceen door. Works great.

Thanks in advance,

Captned
78 46 CON

Oh yea, I'm not worried about falling through the glass door in rough seas since I only go out about 6 times a year!

Building a new door runs about 500 bucks plus materials. My suggestion would be to use an upper and lower glass panel divided by a stile ( cross member ) about midway on the door.

Wood will move and what is straight true and flat today may not be the same later on. The two glass panels will add more stability to preserve that door shape, and still allow the additional light and openness you are seeking.

 

[bobk]

You might also consider making a frameless door from a thick piece of acrylic or Lexan. It would look like the door is open all the time. It can scratch easily, so consider that too.

Bob

 

[hunshatt]

The Phantom screens work good(I installed them for about 5 years) they work well on hatch's also but are a pricy solution. A buddy increased the amount of glass by going with a single pane. Used the old door. H went with whatever the teh side width was and about 8-10" top and bottom(wood portion. He made new moldings front and back. 1/4 tempered was used cause he wanted the darkest glass he could get, which was grey lite 13 (pretty sure thats what it was) My cost on it was about $15.00 per sqf. I would have prefered 3/8 but that only comes in a standard grey. He was probably into the project for under 200(material only)
Problem with the lexan , is that it scratches easily, and in the 3/4 or 1" you'd want, it's stupid money, as wells as the hardware fitting issues(unless your really handy).
Least expencive way out is to increase the size of the glass in your current door(BTW, my buddy reswung the door so it opend out, which is what you look like you did) and put new gasket into the casement using high moduels 2 sided tape(we use it for gaskets onheavy glass shower doors, after a day you just about can't get it off)

Paul, I'm not so sure that 2 pieces will be more stable than 1. I get the twisting thing, but if you add a center divider won't you be introducing one more plane for the door to twist , or bow on? The tempered will flex a bit , but I would think it would be more stable than (1 as opposed to 2) havig 2 pieces

 

[Starman]

Paul, I'm not so sure that 2 pieces will be more stable than 1. I get the twisting thing, but if you add a center divider won't you be introducing one more plane for the door to twist , or bow on? The tempered will flex a bit , but I would think it would be more stable than (1 as opposed to 2) having 2 pieces

It may not be more stable. But in my thinking, the extra stile brace would hold the rails of the door together better. Even the all wood doors have 3 stiles.

Now I did build a huge sliding door ( wing door) one time. It was trapezoid in shape and a full 1 3/8 thick and we used a large piece of 1/2 clear plexi . Two years after I built it, it still looked great. After that I believe the boat was sold and was living in Florida somewhere. ( a Carver )

I also agree that a full length glass does offer flex, and it will also bring stability to a frame, if built right.

 

[Captned]

Thanks guys, I like the idea of cutting this door down. Any more info on the bottom gasket / shower door stuff would be appreciated... Or the door for that matter....

Captned
78 46 CON

 

[Starman]

Capt Ned,

If you are going to cut down the door , IE remove all the interior parts, then add glass, just make sure there is enough meat for the frame.

If I was to do that, I would use a table saw to get the straight cuts. Then use a rabbiting bit on a router to edge it out for the glass. Install the very thin strip of 3m glass tape, and then the glass. On the interior you can build a trim to cover the glass.

Then fill everything with black boat life caulk for a waterproof seal.


Did I miss something.......shower door ?

 

[hunshatt]

2 sided high modules tape for holding the replacment gasket on the jamb of the door. we use it for shower doors. really good stuff

 

[Captned]

Hey Paul,

If you were building a new door, how would you construct it? (a craftsman I'm not. I know just enough / have enough tools to be dangerous...)
I was thinking of Marine 3/4" plywood with 1/4"Afromosia veneer on the inside and some 1/4" veneer on the outside. (1 1/4" door width) with 1/4 teak trim around the outside of the door. Would that work? Wait that wouldn't work, I couldnt use the router on the ply.....

Does any one know how these doors are made? Could I / should I make it out of hardwood, since its only going to 5-6" wide? (on each side of the glass). what type of wood? And then cover it with veneer?

How about a nice door lock and handle, ideas?

Thanks again.... Ned

 

[StratPlan61]

Ned, building a solid door, square without warp or twist is not a job for most inexperienced woodworkers. However, it can be done and there exist ample good books to guide you through the process. I'll summarize the process here briefly, but a good book complete with pictures is worth a TON!!

Start with a good hardwood planks slightly thicker than your door jamb will accomodate, probably 6/4" and machine-plane them to the precise thickness (caliper) required by your door jamb. Then cut the two (2) 'rails' (the vertical pieces). Use a shaper to cut the inside edges where the 'stiles' (horizontal pieces) meet at right angles. Cut the length of the stiles at least 1 1/2" longer than you think you need and use a shaper to cut the 'male' corresponding ends which will fit precisely into the female cuts on the rails. A special set of rotary bits are used for this in your shaper, they come as a precise matched set, male and female bits.

After squaring these four pieces, you would glue and clamp them into a precise 'frame'. As Paul suggested, use a router with a rabbitting bit to create a 'ledge' on the inside of the door where the glass will fit in, allowing 1/8" larger hole than your glass size. As Paul said, add the 3M tape, install the glass and caulk the inside perimeter. Then overlay a piece of wood 3/8" thick by 1 1/2" wide to cover the glass/frame gap. You could use a table saw to clean-up the door top and bottom making them perfectly square and straight across. Then use a round-over bit in the shapeer to put a slight rounded-edge on both side's perimeter. Then chisel out precise mortises for the door hinges to sit into flush. Lastly, cut the mortise in the edge for the doorknob dog and drill the face frame for the doorknob mechanisim. Before installing the hardware, finish to your taste.

Several good books illustrate this for you better than I can describe. The keys to success here are: quality flawless hardwood planks, precise shaper bits, cut rails and stiles perfectly square and use great glue. Build a practice door to tune your talents out of popular (cheap but still a hardwood and easy to work with).

Post a picture of your final door after a few cocktails to congratulate yourself!! I have built numerous doors, raised panel, glass panel, frame & panel, etc., with nice results. It just takes practice, practice, practice.

Bear'
1984 61' MY Strategic Plan

 

[Starman]

Capt.

Stratplan has said it all perfectly. Not a job for the novice, but can certainly be done with practice, patience and the right tools.

While at a party earlier today I was speaking with a friend who operates a milling shop and we spoke about doors.

One of the most aggravating factors is milling the rails. You plane and edge joint the two 76 to 80" rails and the next day they are "bent" . Very frustrating. While the industry standard for homes is that they must be within 1/4 " of flat, we know on boats that a 1/4 inch bend on a boat will not work.

So if you do take on this project , get your wood, let it acclimate to your shop climate for a week or so before milling. Mill it ( plane /edge joint) a bit every day until the right thickness. This has worked well for me, but with wood, nothing is a guarantee.

I like a deep mortise for the stiles, 2 plus inches. And using a tenoning jig on a table saw is the way to go. A good plunge router and a jig can make the mortise. I am betting Strat has a mortiser . ( on my list....LOL )

I always use West Epoxy on doors. I always use tightbond II glue for everything else.


What glue do you like Stratplan ?

 

[StratPlan61]

My favorite glue is Titebond III (green label) for general woodworking. Someone might also wonder about what species of hardwood I would use to construct a salon door - if you really want to stick with a wood door (painted on the outside), I would use Maple. If you want it to match the wood inside an older Hatteras interior, then I would use Teak or Afromosia.

If I were to build such a door for my boat, I would glue on a 1/8" fiberglass veneer (exterior side) to a Teak or Afromosia 'door' after constructing the door. I have used this technique very successfully. The fiberglass veneer holds the epoxy exterior paint very well and won't flake, chip or weather like my Imron does on original Hatteras exterior wood.

Bear'
1984 61' MY Strategic Plan

 

[Captned]

Wow! Thanks guys!

Captned
78 46 CON

 

[bobk]

Is Tite Bond III OK for an application that will see water like an exterior door?

Bob

 

[Starman]

Yes it is. Very strong and waterproof.

It cleans up with water when first applied.

 

[Tawney1]

Ned...,

What's with your "backdoor" obsession? Just get Starman to do the "backdoor!"

Forgive me, but its Memorial Day... and we've been toasting our fantastic veterans...!

P.S. (Translation --w/out vodka...seriously, just get Paul (Starman) to make you a new backdoor...!)

Paul (the "Admiral" says hi)

 

[Starman]

LOL,


Hi Tawney1, Tell the admiral I said hello, and by the way, I have been making good use of that " gift" HIC !!

 

[Captned]

Very funny.... . Hi Paul, best to you and the admiral. Hope its all working out for you guys.

My wife just looked at me and said "If the window in the door is leaking, why don't you re-caulk it?"...

Hmmmm.... New door = $$$$$$$$. One tube of caulk = $....Hmmmmmm.

Maybe this new door would make a great "over the summer" project.

Thanks again,

Captned
78 46 CON

Oh, Starman.. You want to PM me a quote? 1 1/4 thick, 30 wide, 71 3/8 tall, 3/8 glass( I will install) , 5" solid teak all the way around, unfinished, door handle/ lock cut out( i will install lock) no trim on outside and teak trim on the inside (not installed)

 

[hunshatt]

What color 3/8's ? all you can get is standard grey. could go clear with limo tint

 

[Starman]

Are you sure about the 3/8 inch glass. Most glass is 1/4 "

Also would need the lock set if I were going to mortise that out.