New Purchaser needs Advise.

[SportFishCruising]

I am considering buying a 1988 Hatteras 48 Convertable, yard maintained since new and I have a few questions as this is my first purchase of a boat this size with twin deisels.
(1) I am amazed at the costs of rebuilds and replacements of these engines from information gained during research. This boat has Detroit Diesels, Engine Model 892 - 735HP with 1500 original hours. Of course I will get a survey, but assuming the engines pass it & an oil survey, what might be my possible maintenance/service schedule and costs be up to 2500+ hours?
Also, broker says the engine room needs detailing. What does this entail, what are the associated costs and is it something I can do myself?
(2) The boat looks beautiful and clean, inside and out, except the broker reports stress cracks and dings aft near rub rails, port & starboard, from pivoting off pilings at slip. He states they are not serious, only cosemetic, not noticed by the casual observer. Any comments about how severe this could get? I asked him to forward pictures but boat is currently shrinkwrapped, he will see what he can do.
(3) Broker also states the hull is clean and shiney as in photos in ad, but that painting the hull gunnel down to bootstripe would cover dings and make boat look new. A Local yard quoted around $8,000 which he says is expensive. Why is painting the hull so expensive and must it be done professionally or is something I might be able to do? Painting the hull will have to wait until I'm an expert handler, otherwise I would cry when I ding the pilings myself while learning.
The broker has known the boat since new and sold it to the now deceased owner. Any standard recommended questions I should be asking him prior to making a long trip, lining up a survey and sea trial?
Any input will be helpful. This is a big step up in boating adventure for me and I intend to Live Aboard on the fresh water of the Great Lakes.

 

[Pascal]

stress cracks on a Hatt. from normal handling? red flag...
dings, need paint? red flag...

before traveling, see if you can get someone to look at the boat for you, to make sure it's even worth the travelling time... i've looked at boats for members, i know others here have too.

if you do go ahead, try to do a sea trial FIRST before committing to surveys... may save you some $ if the boat as serious issues.

 

[chris piazza]

735hp out of 892's is a no-go on my list. You are at 1/1 hp/CI rating and those engines at 1500hrs are going to need a major very soon at $3500-$4000 a hole. If you are going to make an offer do so knowing your going to rebuild both mains.

Chris
Superior Nights 53C

 

[spartonboat1]

Please accept the advice offered by these posts as being very sage. A strong survey by a first rate surveyor (not always easy to find) will be very valuable. These boats will make your heart sing, but you must be a hard eyed realist (not optimist) after the first blush!

 

[SportFishCruising]

Thanks Pascal, I asked for photos of these stress cracks or dings from banging into the slip pilings and will post them if I get them for further analysis. When I am more serious about my selections I will ask here if any members are in the area for a quick look for me. I'll wait though until I'm very sure so I won't waste anyone's time.

Chris, sorry, I don't really understand 1/1hp/CI; does it mean the engines are ineffiecient & underrated for the size of boat? Does a major mean total rebuild for approx $8K for both and if done, would these Detroit's last another 1500 hrs?

And Spartonboat, thank you too for responding, I am greatful for the opportunity to seek the wisdom from this forum.

Buying a boat is more difficult than buying a house because of locations, variances and my own ignorances

 

[krush]

1 hp per cubic inch is an arbitrary number that many like to use for an engine rating that is "safe" and "too much". Many of these detroits were jacked up in HP for pleasure craft use and thus many people see 1500 hours before an overhaul.

However, people also tend to overlook the fact that man pleasure boats also see less than 100 hours per year. If you want an engine to get lots of hours before an overhaul, it has to actually be used to get them hours.

 

[Walter P]

Important rules for buying a boat....

Keep your camel tied very tightly.

Get lots of photos, especially close up's of questionable areas.

Ask some of our HOFer's to eyeball it prior to you spending time/$ flying to wherever it is located.

Re read the former posts regarding the 8/92's. $8,000 will not do them over.

Finally, leave your pen and check book home. You can mail one later after you have time to think over what you're about to do.

Lose the rose colored glasses.

Good luck...........


Walt

 

[saltshaker]

The problem with those engines is they are cranking out a lot of HP for their size. This translates to heat which if not managed correctly, means engine failure. They can last a long time if taken care of, and used regularly. I have seen them go 3000 hours and have heard of major failures in under 1000 hours. Small problems cause major damage because these engines are running on the edge. A fellow forum member's father has these engines in his boat. First failure was around 1200 hours and last season they needed a major due to an overheat, around 1500 hours. The engine had to come out of the boat and the total bill for the 1 engine was around 30K. If the engines are tired and you don't suffer a failure, you could get them rebuilt for less, maybe 2-3K per hole or 16K-24K per engine. You might get a better deal up in the Lakes than what we pay but 24K per engine is a fair estimate. The 48 is very heavy and a bit slow compared to the competition. Decide if speed is important to you. You'll have to run her hard to cruise 22kts which means less hours between overhauls.

I also think that 8K to paint the hull is very cheap. A first rate job will cost double that. we're not trying to scare you off. Just making sure you know what your looking at.

 

[stormchaser]

A GOOD full sprayed paint job (from waterline up, including cabin & decks) will run about $1,000 per foot of boat...so for your 48ft boat, it should be about $48,000. $8,000 MIGHT get you the hull rolled & tipped by a mediocre yard.

 

[SportFishCruising]

Thanks Krush, so... is 1hp/CI 'safe"? It doesn't sound like to much but is it not enough? I'm going to be on the Great Lakes which is considerably different than being way offshore and the listing states a cruising speed of 24 knots and max speed of 28 which I believe is impressive. Also, since the previous owner got 1500 hrs from them, if I plan for the rebuild in my offer, it may give me a good learning experience and a good investment. Or, am I wrong?

Walter, thanks for that advise. Perhaps I misinterpreted Chris's statement of $4K per hole, I though it meant per motor? I've also read posts in other threads where rebuilds ran $30-45K per motor. What is realistic for these 892's and is it worthwhile doing?

This will be a pleasure boat for me but I will try to subliment costs by some chartering for salmon fishing in Lake Ontario and then extended cruises for personal holidays. Although I am not looking for a 'project boat' I do plan to keep her well maintained, immaculate and up-to-date. I'm really looking to be a proud owner and enjoy my Live Aboard. I am trying to learn, going slow, it's been years to get me to this stage but the more I learn....the more I realize I really don't know much

 

[Maynard Rupp]

The term that is being used here,"2-3 thousand dollars per hole", needs explanation. These are 8 cylinder engines. 2 main engines; total cylinders =16. The 2 to 3 thousand per hole means the amound charged to overhaul these engines based on the cost per cylinder. So $2,000 per hole x 16 cylinders equals $32,000 total. You will pay at least that much in the Great Lakes also. Many users do say that 1500 hours for those high output 8-92 Detroits is about all the hours they will last before overhaul. Some of our members get far more than that by running them carefully and doing a good job with engine maintenance. Good luck. I boat in the Great Lakes and in South Florida. I would be glad to help if that is needed.

 

[SportFishCruising]

Wow... I am so under qualified with my knowledge and so under funded. I know the replies here are not meant to discourage me but to protect me and I am very thankful for it. I might need another couple of years for boat education and savings unless I find something pristine within my budget. But, thank you everyone, it seems this particular 48 footer is not for me.
If I were to get a project boat like this it would either sink...or sink me.
Oh well...at least I learned alot in this thread

 

[Sonny]

Don't be discouraged! The best way to determine an engine's age is not by how many hours it has ran. It is best calculated by fuel burned. An engine that loafs around at 1500rpm for 1000 hours is going to be younger than an engine run at 2300rpm for 1000 hours. It takes a lot of heat to make 735hp and heat is what wears out a properly maintained high horsepower engine, not friction. If you can find out how much fuel these engines have consumed in their 1500hrs of use you may find that they are young or you may find they are on the brink of giving up. If these engines are DDEC then you should easily be able to find out total fuel burned vs total hours run. Get an oil analysis and compression test as well. The great thing about Detroits is you can inspect the pistons and upper rings without tearing the engine down and all these tests except the oil analysis can be done in a day by a decent mechanic and an honest and motivated seller should do this to help the sale. Good luck

 

[SportFishCruising]

Well....Any members here really close to Falmouth Harbour/Cape Cod, MA?

 

[saltshaker]

Wow... I am so under qualified with my knowledge and so under funded. I know the replies here are not meant to discourage me but to protect me and I am very thankful for it. I might need another couple of years for boat education and savings unless I find something pristine within my budget. But, thank you everyone, it seems this particular 48 footer is not for me.
If I were to get a project boat like this it would either sink...or sink me.
Oh well...at least I learned alot in this thread

Don't get discouraged and don't right off the boat just yet. There may be plenty of life left in the engines. We're just trying to inform you of what you MIGHT be getting into. FYI the 24kt cruise on that boat would be a fast cruise, IE one that will wear them out faster. 20-22kts is more realistic if you want to get more hours out of them. If the boat has been run hard, then those 1500 hrs might be all you'll get out of her. If she has been cared for and not run so hard, you may see another 1000 hours out of them. If you want some more specific info, post a link to the boat or give us some very specific data, such as price, layout, options etc. Uou said it was a '98 but Hatteras didn't make a 48C that year. Is it an "88?

 

[SportFishCruising]

I cannot post a link due to my low post count (new member).
The owner of the boat was 80 yrs old so I doubt he ran it hard, it's an estate sale, family has no interest in it and they are asking $179.9K dropped from $199K.

Hatteras 48 Convertable, no tower (my preference)
Dimensions
LOA: 48'8" Beam: 16 Displacement: 51500
Draft: 5'5" Bridge Clearance: 14'

Engines
Engine(s): Detroit Diesel Engine(s) HP: 735 Engine Model: 892
Hours: 1400 Cruising Speed: 24 knots Max Speed: 27-28 knots

Tankage
Fuel: 812 gallons Water: 184 gallons

Accommodations
Queen master forward with centerline queen bunk,hanging lockers to port and stbd,private head with stall shower, marble vanity with sink to port. ships clock. Next aft to stbd is the guest head with stall shower and marble vanity. Both heads equipped with Sea Land vacu flush heads. Next aft to stbd is the guest stateroom with L-bunks over and under and a hanging locker. The guest head is double entry from the companionway and the stateroom. Both staterooms are equipped with bedding, comforters, and curtains. To port in the companionway is a custom dry bar/storage area and built in refrigerator. Next aft to port is a full mid galley equipped with Sharp carosel microwave/convection oven, ss sink with H/C pressure water, refrigerator, freezer, 3 burner Princess range/oven. Next aft step up to salon with L-shaped convertible ultra suede couch to stbd, lucite folding coffee table, barrel chair with cocktail table, and 2 custom stools at the breakfast bar to port with Corian top. The salon includes levelor blinds, drapes, matching valances, indirect lighting, and 5 track lighting. The salon is equipped with U-line icemaker, intercom to the bridge, portable telephone, tide clock, and entertainment center with Symphonic 4 head Hi Fi Stereo, dry bar, Toshiba T.V., and Sherwood stereo/CD. Boat has cruise Air and Heat throughout.

Electrical
4 8D battteries
15 KW Onan genset with sound shield
battery charger
250 volt/50 amp service with shore chord

Deck
pulpit
aluminium fender holders (6)
ss rail
galley maid windlass with cover
hardtop with full enclosure
Rupp outriggers w/double spreaders
danforth anchor
4 flushmount rod holders
cockpit spreader lights
power chord holder
phone and cable T.V. hookup w/chord
cockpit steps
dockwater
sw washdown
Pompanett Fighting chair w/cover
2 fish chairs w/covers
cockpit carpet
stepcovers
AM/FM cockpit speakers
transom door
wet sink in cockpit
cockpit freezer
tackle center
cockpit awning
ships bell
docklines
4 extra fenders
fishbox
4 rod rocket launcher
center rigger

Bridge
Bridge carpet, cushions, 2 AM/FM speakers, 6 man canister life raft, Helm & Mate seats with pedestals and covers, console cover

ELECTRONICS:
Raytheon chart plotter
Northstar 800X
Garmin GPS
Datamarine Dart
Richie Compass SS Wheel
Hynautic Steering
Digital Tachs
Windlass Remote
Horn
Battery Parallel
Emergency engine shut off
engine alarm
Glyndenning Synchronizer
trim tabs
125V receptacle
3 bilge pumps
Acr Epirb
Raytheon R41X
Northstar 6000I
Robertson A/P
Icom M100 VHF
Standard Hailer
Raytheon V850 FF
Life Ring
PFD's
Auto Helm Dig D/F

 

[saltshaker]

Okay is this the boat you are considering?
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...570/Falmouth-Harbor-Cape-Cod/MA/United-States
If so it seems like it's worth looking at. Check the sales/listing history of the boat. I think it was for sale a couple of years ago in the low 400's.

 

[SportFishCruising]

Yes..that's her (sorry, just noticed my typo and edited it, yes, it is 1988)
How does one check the sales listing history?

 

[Walter P]

Jack, (saltshaker)

Thanks for posting the listing. The pictures show the boat very well. It seems to be in great condition.........except for the details in the ER. That alone would make me get a good engine survey. Usually but not always, cosmetic maintaince of machinery spaces indicate good mechanical maintainance as well. The wild card here was the age of the gentleman that owned it, making it difficult or worse to crawl around cleaning/painting the ER.

Other than the ER, the rest looks really good.....except for the mirrors on the bulkheads but that comes under the category of personal taste. If it were me, I would definately look into buying this girl.

Walt

 

[SportFishCruising]

Thanks so much, now I'm getting very encouraged. This is the edited emails back and forth about the deficiencies: (one of my first thoughts was to get rid of those mirrors too)

Broker-
Thanks for the inquiry on the 48 Hatteras. The Price was just reduced to $179,900 about 2 weeks ago from $199K. Nice 21 year old boat . . .Very clean interior/Very clean Exterior/ Engine rooms needs detailing, Exterior has some stress cracks and dings aft near rub rail, port and starboard. Estate Sale . . . Owner was in his 80's and still ran boat. Stress cracks /dings from pivoting off piling coming into his slip . . Photos are from last fall . . . The boat is currently stored shrink wrapped with an access door for winter at a yard here on Falmouth Harbor/Cape Cod and can be easily seen at your convenience. The boat has approximately 1500 Original Hours on engines, has been yard maintained ,is a lot of boat for the money with a great layout . . . Will be a great buy for someone. Please feel free to contact me anytime at numbers below and I be glad to answer any/all other questions that you may have more specifically. We have know the boat for quite a few years and someone in the office sold it to current owner back around 1994. He passed away last summer and his heirs have no interest in boating.

Me-
Any chance of digital pictures for these stress cracks and dings?
Can you also elaborate on the seriousness of these faults?
Other than that, this does look like what I am looking for.

Broker-
Problem being the boat is shrink wrapped BUT I may have a few in my files. I'll take a look . . . I think they are not very serious at all . . . mostly cosmetic . . . you could probably leave them alone and they'd probably be fine forever BUT cosmetically the boat would obviously look much better. . . . the boat looks fantastic from 15 feet away, hull is shiny and clean as in photos. You have to right on top of these to see them . . . not noticeable on casual observation. If it were me, and I bought the boat at a decent price, I'd probably considering painting the hull gunnel down to bootstripe. I believe a local quality yard quoted somewhere around $8,000 Entire hull from Gunnel to boot stripe to paint the boat (Imron) , as originally done by Hatteras when new, . . . and the yards here tend to be " Very Expensive" to do business with. Let me take a look in files and I'll get back to you with what I find.