Missing kids in Fla

[TROUBLE]

I think one of the saddest things here is at what point do the Parents give up? And how do you do that.

Art

 

[Freeebird]

I think one of the saddest things here is at what point do the Parents give up? And how do you do that.

Art

Makes everything else brought up in this thread insignificant, huh?

 

[Garyd1]

Amen, better be a strong family of faith. They are not dead just in a different place. Heaven, and heaven is real! God's speed young men see you when we get there so we can slap you upside your head and ask you what were you thinking?

The family must be devastated, relying on the Lord is the only way to get through this the only way. Too sad for words. Hurts just to think about that kind of pain. :-(

 

[thoward]

If the parents don't insist on safety why should it be government enforced.

Because taxpayers foot the bill and government employees are forced to risk their lives to save individuals who did not feel the necessity to take personal responsibility for their own safety. A PLB is $250, if you can't afford that you shouldn't be in FEDERAL waters.

 

[Boatsb]

Because taxpayers foot the bill and government employees are forced to risk their lives to save individuals who did not feel the necessity to take personal responsibility for their own safety. A PLB is $250, if you can't afford that you shouldn't be in FEDERAL waters.

No its time to let people take responsibility for their actions. The people in Sar volunteer because they want to. No one made them join. As much as I value their lives and what they do its not forced. We don't need more government regulations. We need less. Too bad you can't get over thinking your smarter than everyone else and belong to the ruling class.

 

[Freeebird]

No its time to let people take responsibility for their actions. The people in Sar volunteer because they want to. No one made them join. As much as I value their lives and what they do its not forced. We don't need more government regulations. We need less. Too bad you can't get over thinking your smarter than everyone else and belong to the ruling class.

Damn, dude, I love ya, but give it a rest already.

As for the parents, they claim the boys were not allowed to take the boat into the open ocean. As parents, we would like to think our kids would do exactly as we tell them, and that they will do exactly as they promise, but get real. Boys will be boys.

Seems to me that mandatory tracking devices on boats could be the answer. Hell, big brother is tracking us anyway, so maybe we could even write them off while saving taxpayers millions of dollars.

Seriously, getting into the blame game is pointless, and there's always the inevitable knee jerk reaction as to how we could prevent this from happening again. There are always lessons to be learned, and history will always repeat itself in such things as this.

 

[Boatsb]

Damn, dude, I love ya, but give it a rest already.

As for the parents, they claim the boys were not allowed to take the boat into the open ocean. As parents, we would like to think our kids would do exactly as we tell them, and that they will do exactly as they promise, but get real. Boys will be boys.

Seems to me that mandatory tracking devices on boats could be the answer. Hell, big brother is tracking us anyway, so maybe we could even write them off while saving taxpayers millions of dollars.

Seriously, getting into the blame game is pointless, and there's always the inevitable knee jerk reaction as to how we could prevent this from happening again. There are always lessons to be learned, and history will always repeat itself in such things as this.

Sorry but I can't stand the bs every time someone uses a sad situation like this to take away our freedoms. Some idiot shoots someone so we ban guns. Kids are lost at sea so we track all boats. Sadly we have people that use these sad situations for their bs agenda of control.

Yes the parents lost their children . I lost a cousin and a step brother when I was young but didn't want to put trackers in everyone to track them. When my son starts driving I'm going to be a nervous wreck but I won't put a gps locater on him. Just his phone.

If g-d wanted us all to be safe he wouldn't have given us curiosity and adrenaline.

 

[captddis]

It seems that everytime that someones irresponsible kid gets killed, the parents lobby for some stupid law that makes them feel better.

A boat load of kids here ran into a breakwater in the dark. Guess what? They lobbied to get the breakwater torn down.

We don't need any more laws. Teach common sense instead.

 

[saltshaker]

I'm not sure what the answer is here but safety should be a high priority, for boaters and SAR personnel. I'm not a big fan of government telling me to wear a seatbelt or bike helmet but you can't deny those laws save lives and resources. I do agree that we should be responsible for taking safety precautions but the reality is many are not. If you want to look at the parenting aspect, a child shouldn'nt be at risk just because his parents didn't think or act responsibly. In NJ you have to wear a bike helmet if you are under 17. Most here do it. When I'm in states that don't require a helmet, I rarely see kids with them. Same with the seat belt laws. Most didn't wear them when it wasn't required. What happened here is tragic and would seem that that the parents thought they took necessary precautions. These boys knew better but as Randy said, "Boys will be boys." None of us know what really happened and if an Epirb or a PLB would have changed the outcome but I think it's reasonable to say they wouldn't have hurt and could have greatly aided the SAR effort. My deepest sympathies go out to these families.

 

[Freeebird]

Sorry but I can't stand the bs every time someone uses a sad situation like this to take away our freedoms. Some idiot shoots someone so we ban guns. Kids are lost at sea so we track all boats. Sadly we have people that use these sad situations for their bs agenda of control.

Yes the parents lost their children . I lost a cousin and a step brother when I was young but didn't want to put trackers in everyone to track them. When my son starts driving I'm going to be a nervous wreck but I won't put a gps locater on him. Just his phone.

If g-d wanted us all to be safe he wouldn't have given us curiosity and adrenaline.

First, I was referring to the personal attack and "ruling class" comment which was unnecessary.

I'm not a fan of big government and government intrusion either, but please explain to me how mandating safety equipment on your boat takes away any of your freedom. Does having a PFD for everyone onboard take away your freedom (freedom to drown)? Fire extinguishers (freedom to burn)? Horn (freedom from signaling)? Would you have that equipment on your boat if it weren't required?

I'm sure the answer is, yes, but I dare say there are a number of folks who simply wouldn't spend a few bucks to buy such equipment if it weren't required and didn't come with the boat. I'll readily admit that I don't own a PLB, but I can tell you, that's going to change. Look at the resources that were utilized to locate these kids who were only a short distance offshore, and all they found was their capsized boat. There's a good chance they died with land in sight. Mandating modern electronic safety devices isn't remotely the same as gun control, it would just be one more step in the safety chain to bring boaters into the 21st century.

I'll counter your last comment by stating if God (I'm Baptist, we can spell it out ) didn't want us to be safe on the sea, He wouldn't have given us the PLB, EPIRB, VHF, SSB, RADAR (all government mind control gizmos, but tinfoil repels it), or the electronic depth finder.

Speaking of God fixing things, I sure wish He would inspire SOMEBODY to fix this blasted forum so you can type posts using Firefox without having them run into oblivion as one line!

 

[Boatsb]

First, I was referring to the personal attack and "ruling class" comment which was unnecessary.

I'm not a fan of big government and government intrusion either, but please explain to me how mandating safety equipment on your boat takes away any of your freedom. Does having a PFD for everyone onboard take away your freedom (freedom to drown)? Fire extinguishers (freedom to burn)? Horn (freedom from signaling)? Would you have that equipment on your boat if it weren't required?

I'm sure the answer is, yes, but I dare say there are a number of folks who simply wouldn't spend a few bucks to buy such equipment if it weren't required and didn't come with the boat. I'll readily admit that I don't own a PLB, but I can tell you, that's going to change. Look at the resources that were utilized to locate these kids who were only a short distance offshore, and all they found was their capsized boat. There's a good chance they died with land in sight. Mandating modern electronic safety devices isn't remotely the same as gun control, it would just be one more step in the safety chain to bring boaters into the 21st century.

I'll counter your last comment by stating if God (I'm Baptist, we can spell it out ) didn't want us to be safe on the sea, He wouldn't have given us the PLB, EPIRB, VHF, SSB, RADAR (all government mind control gizmos, but tinfoil repels it), or the electronic depth finder.

Speaking of God fixing things, I sure wish He would inspire SOMEBODY to fix this blasted forum so you can type posts using Firefox without having them run into oblivion as one line!

First off. Baptists shouldn't use firefox. It's just not right.

My ruling class comment is based on my seeing so many times that "they know what's good for us so we should do as we are told.". It's politicians and their friends.

As for safety gear being mandatory. I'm all for the pfd's, fire extinguisher, first aid kit and such. I also believe you rented an epirb and raft for a long crossing. Didn't have to but you knew enough. Would I set out for the bahamas without them? No. I also would not set out alone. Buddy boating is a great way to improve safety and increase the enjoyment of the lifestyle. Even off shore fishing I always have contact with other vessels in the area to keep an eye on each other.

Mandatory epirbs won't help unless properly registered and deployed. Most boaters have no idea how to use the vhf. Having a mandatory device that won't be used is no help and sets a false sense of security. I could almost predict more people in trouble because they think they're safer.

 

[Garyd1]

Randy I am shocked you are in favor of more regulation.

I do not think the government should try to figure out every way a human can screw up and then charge us taxes up the wazoo to regulate every possible situation.

We must get back to the individuals being responsible for themselves. They should never turn their life over to anyone ever. Whether it be a doctor, dentist or boat captain.

Like I said the biker dude can ride wild and free but not the car guy we MUST have airbags seat belts and shoulder harnesses. BLAH SHEEEITTTTTTT. Get the government out of our lives!!!!!! The biker dude is free and the rest of us need to be as free. If you hurt another human you are liable. Including if you murder an unborn baby.

 

[thoward]

Given the choice between gov mandated flairs and an Epirb offshore, I'd take the epirb every day. Technology has improved and, if the data supports, the USCG requirements should reflect that. It is not about being smarter than any one else. It is about using the modern technology to save lives nation wide.

 

[Boatsb]

Given the choice between gov mandated flairs and an Epirb offshore, I'd take the epirb every day. Technology has improved and, if the data supports, the USCG requirements should reflect that. It is not about being smarter than any one else. It is about using the modern technology to save lives nation wide.

I choose to carry both. No need for some ahole politician to make a new law to add to the government oversight and overhead. No its not an opportunity for a new political appointee. We do t need a boating safety czar.

Our legislators are some of the most self important morons ever to roam the earth. We have a district to pander to blacks from Jacksonville to south Kissimmee that incorporates almost every black community in 200 mile area just to keep the incompetent Corin brown in power. She's famous for a statement about not wanting to be confused by the facts. It's the perfect exam of how our government will do what it wants not what's right and they will put an idiot in the position to pander to a special interest.

For you guys up north she's our version of Chuck rangle.
[


Boating is supposed to be a pleasure not a chore. Safety is the responsibility of the boater not the government. Having the basics is one thing. Forcing more on us is just another way to increase the number of stops and boardings.

 

[GJH]

Randy I am shocked you are in favor of more regulation.

I do not think the government should try to figure out every way a human can screw up and then charge us taxes up the wazoo to regulate every possible situation.

We must get back to the individuals being responsible for themselves. They should never turn their life over to anyone ever. Whether it be a doctor, dentist or boat captain.

Like I said the biker dude can ride wild and free but not the car guy we MUST have airbags seat belts and shoulder harnesses. BLAH SHEEEITTTTTTT. Get the government out of our lives!!!!!! The biker dude is free and the rest of us need to be as free. If you hurt another human you are liable. Including if you murder an unborn baby.

So Gary why don't you just come out and say you are opposed to all the government money, time and resources spent on the search for those boys. Its a defensible position; perfectly in line with the anti-nanny state mentality. And anyway according to you they are on their way to heaven so why would you want to save them from getting to a better place? That's really what your posts sound like to me.

 

[Freeebird]

Why does anybody think this would involve politicians or more taxes? I still don't get the loss of freedom bit either, but just butter my butt and call me a libtard.

Mandating another piece of safety equipment will do nothing more than cost boaters a few bucks and save a few lives. Spare me the "nobody will know how to use it" crap as automatic EPIRB's can take care of that. I'm betting that if one had been installed on the boat in question, those boys would have been found. Not criticizing the parents by any means, but you can bet they're second guessing all this too.

As for the helmet/motorcycle analogy, I don't see it. Besides, most states require riders to wear helmets as it makes it easier to identify the body.

 

[Freeebird]

So Gary why don't you just come out and say you are opposed to all the government money, time and resources spent on the search for those boys. Its a defensible position; perfectly in line with the anti-nanny state mentality. And anyway according to you they are on their way to heaven so why would you want to save them from getting to a better place? That's really what your posts sound like to me.

Huh?

I'll let Gary address that one, but seriously?

 

[Garyd1]

Well two things. The family actually was pretty well funded and the volunteers covered a pretty wide area.

And No I do not believe we should spend millions of dollars on trying to save someone from doing something stupid while we spend millions of dollars funding the murder of babies.

The government is the problem not the solution. In fact if we all had more of our money in our pocket the money from donations to help these folks would of covered a better search than the government provided.

The only thing the government can do is manage a military during a war. Other than that they suck at everything and I mean everything. Every government entity I've been involved with is just plain wasteful and bad. Independent business would do better at every task bar none.

We must reduce the size of our government and peoples reliance on them!

Finally it was not the governments money it is our money!!!!!!! You can not get one dollar of government money until you take that one dollar from one of us. Let me have it and let me decide where to spend it. I guarantee there would of been a better search and a more complete search if we had all the money in our pockets the government wastes on pure BS.

 

[Freeebird]

A perfectly good rescue/hope thread shot to hell. Not exactly our finest hour. May God bless those kids, their families, and those who tried to reunite them.

 

[Garyd1]

That is your opinion. Actually this is how things improve. We know that the government will not help fix this but just make it worse. We need to educate and train everyone better and let them decide if they want to purchase an epirb. I bet without any government intervention epirb sales increase.

But most of all people must take responsibility for their actions.