I hope you can pay cash

[Passages]

Good table.

First, actual sold numbers must be taken with a grain of salt as brokers tend to inflate them to bolster a perception that they can get top dollar for their listings. Perfect example is the boat with the ask of 229 and a claimed sold price of 227 two years later. Yeah, right.

Still, there is some good data there. My take away is it takes on average 1-2years to sell a big boat and giving an initial offer 30% off ask will not insult anyone.

Even this may be generous since only about 4 boats have sold since the credit crunch.

 

[Brian Degulis]

You can pick just about any size or style of Hat. There will be a general asking price range and most have been listed forever. The intial asking price has come down a little but not that much. Then a boat will apear that is well below all the others usually because it badly run down and would need as much or more put into it to bring it up to the condition of the higher priced boats. But the boats that have been greatly reduced apear to be the only boats selling. So what does that mean? Who's buying them perhaps people that can't aford a boat in good condition? So what will become of these boats will they be brought back or will they become dock queens?

Brian

 

[captddis]

You can pick just about any size or style of Hat. There will be a general asking price range and most have been listed forever. The intial asking price has come down a little but not that much. Then a boat will apear that is well below all the others usually because it badly run down and would need as much or more put into it to bring it up to the condition of the higher priced boats. But the boats that have been greatly reduced apear to be the only boats selling. So what does that mean? Who's buying them perhaps people that can't aford a boat in good condition? So what will become of these boats will they be brought back or will they become dock queens?

Brian

The dreamers will let them fall into greater disrepair and then they will be abondened or sold to the next dreamer who can not afford to repair the boat.

By far the best deal is to pay more and buy a well maintained boat that the owner is ready to sell. The fixer uppers are never a deal and in the end you have as much or more into the fixer upper as you would have paid for a turn key boat. Except with the well maintained boat you would not have the grief of doing the repairs.

 

[Walter P]

The dreamers will let them fall into greater disrepair and then they will be abondened or sold to the next dreamer who can not afford to repair the boat.

By far the best deal is to pay more and buy a well maintained boat that the owner is ready to sell. The fixer uppers are never a deal and in the end you have as much or more into the fixer upper as you would have paid for a turn key boat. Except with the well maintained boat you would not have the grief of doing the repairs.

Please define 'Grief". Depending on the severity of the damage/neglect, some folks actually like doing "upgrades". A good case in point on one extreme is Yachtsmanbill. The man is incredible both in quality and quantity of work. His perserverance is inspiring to me. His project is much greater than I would ever attempt, even when I was younger but just by following his posts and pictures, it's pretty obvious that there is a man who loves his work.

Most of our boats have something that could probably stand some attention. That's one of the reasons we buy these old girls. Of course since they haven't been built in quite a few years, we don't have much choice but to rebuild or refurbish them.

I do agree with you however that the better financial deal is probably to buy the best one available for a little more money rather than buying the most run down model for a little less up front and spending many boat bucks bringing it back. If you need to pay others to do the upgrades, it's usually a really bad deal.

Walt

 

[captddis]

Please define 'Grief". Depending on the severity of the damage/neglect, some folks actually like doing "upgrades". A good case in point on one extreme is Yachtsmanbill. The man is incredible both in quality and quantity of work. His perserverance is inspiring to me. His project is much greater than I would ever attempt, even when I was younger but just by following his posts and pictures, it's pretty obvious that there is a man who loves his work.

Most of our boats have something that could probably stand some attention. That's one of the reasons we buy these old girls. Of course since they haven't been built in quite a few years, we don't have much choice but to rebuild or refurbish them.

I do agree with you however that the better financial deal is probably to buy the best one available for a little more money rather than buying the most run down model for a little less up front and spending many boat bucks bringing it back. If you need to pay others to do the upgrades, it's usually a really bad deal.

Walt

Sounds like you took offense, none intended. I have always bought old boats. My current 46C is no different. I knew the boat since new and knew the history, I maintained it for the first 13 years of its life. I do all my own work except for painting on anything other than a small area.
The boat was in very good unmolested condition when I bought it @ 20 yrs old in 2002.


I have done the following:
Replace stbd 8V92 and rebuild gearbox
Rebuild port engine and gear
replace orig 15 kw Onan with new 13.5 kw Onan
installed new Furuno 1942 64 mi radar
install Simrad pilot
replace 2 of the 3 Cruisair units
remove pulpit and replace a 3' x 3' section of deck coring and rebuild the pulpit, install new teak inlay
Install new GM windlass
Install Datamarine log
replace all canvas
repair both Sealand headsso they work properly
Replace copper lines for steering with new copper
replace water heater
clean paint and detail engine room and under aft deck
paint gunnels and deck
repair, fill holes on aft deck and paint
new carpet
new micro
reveneer fwd bulkhead in salon
repair icemaker
replace glass on port side salon window
reveneer cabinet doors on bridge
replace shaft log hoses
replace AC strainer and replace hoses and fittings
install Garmin GPS
and about a million smaller things that I can't think of at the moment.

The engine rebuilds were heavy work and the first one sent me to see the neurosurgeon with a blown disc.
The deck repair was a 3 month job of sitting in the rope locker in August and cutting out the core with a rotozip, then making sure everything was dry.
Then epoxying over your head all the time trying to keep everything else clean. If that is not grief then I do not know what is.

Pulling the shafts was grief for sure.

Hatt bolted the AC units to the platform over the fuel tank, the steel bolts with locknuts were installed then the sole was lowered in place. It was a PITA getting the bolts to snap so I could remove the units.



I could go on but I am sure you get the idea. Oh yeah, I was told that I "stold" the boat when I bought it. I am 100,000 over market value on it right now!! I have the boat in bristol cond and everything works like it should and has been done the best way possible. I also have the scars to prove it.

 

[krush]

So the moral of the story is to get filthy rich and buy a new boat and run it until it needs an oil change. Then sell it or sink it and buy another new boat LOL joking!

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Please define 'Grief". Depending on the severity of the damage/neglect, some folks actually like doing "upgrades". A good case in point on one extreme is Yachtsmanbill. The man is incredible both in quality and quantity of work. His perserverance is inspiring to me. His project is much greater than I would ever attempt, even when I was younger but just by following his posts and pictures, it's pretty obvious that there is a man who loves his work.

Most of our boats have something that could probably stand some attention. That's one of the reasons we buy these old girls. Of course since they haven't been built in quite a few years, we don't have much choice but to rebuild or refurbish them.

I do agree with you however that the better financial deal is probably to buy the best one available for a little more money rather than buying the most run down model for a little less up front and spending many boat bucks bringing it back. If you need to pay others to do the upgrades, it's usually a really bad deal.

Walt

Thanks Walt... I call it BOCD ...boating obsesive compulsive disorder... I just wonder where in life I would be if I didnt have the "habit" LOL ! Sometimes I wonder if its' INNATE or INNANE !! ws

 

[TopHattandTails]

First - boats are money losers. Don't buy one with the dream of breaking even on the way out. We all know this. The best we can hope to do is to not get killed on the way out. If money was the reason "us boaters" got into boating and bought boats - we'll none of us would be here. I recently purchased this June - sure I could have beat the seller up another $5k - but I might have also lost the season. Being a broker in other markets (not boats), I would suggest making offers at whatever price you feel comfortable (e.g. - can afford, feel comfortable with). If that's 30% off list - great. If that's 10% off ask - great. The idea is to find the best quality boat for the money (and distance to home for fuel burn). One method I have found to be useful is that IF the boat is owned by the brokerage (e.g. a trade boat). Ask the brokerage to participate in the purchase price (e.g make up the difference). This especially works when the salesman are NOT on commission, but on salary AND the boat is owned by the brokerage. Beating the sales person up on commission usually is not fruitful - you can typically get more from the seller (especially if the boat is owned by the brokerage - e.g. trade) and all you accomplish is getting a non helpful sales person - who you will likely need in cleaning up the transaction with documentation papers, loan docs, PO help, etc...) after the close of escrow. The other option is to have the seller / brokerage complete the survey repairs prior to delivery. This will save you serious $$ on repair items that your insurance may require to be completed. So - yes, you could see a boat purchased slightly below list with 2 years marketing time - but there may be a serious seller concession / cash back to the buyer included...

Just my $0.02. I think it better that we're on the water, rather than trying to save a few hundred bucks!

 

[Brian Degulis]

Please define 'Grief". Depending on the severity of the damage/neglect, some folks actually like doing "upgrades". A good case in point on one extreme is Yachtsmanbill. The man is incredible both in quality and quantity of work. His perserverance is inspiring to me. His project is much greater than I would ever attempt, even when I was younger but just by following his posts and pictures, it's pretty obvious that there is a man who loves his work.

Most of our boats have something that could probably stand some attention. That's one of the reasons we buy these old girls. Of course since they haven't been built in quite a few years, we don't have much choice but to rebuild or refurbish them.

I do agree with you however that the better financial deal is probably to buy the best one available for a little more money rather than buying the most run down model for a little less up front and spending many boat bucks bringing it back. If you need to pay others to do the upgrades, it's usually a really bad deal.

Walt

Any boat you find will need lots of stuff plenty to keep you busy. What dave is talking about is the infamous "PROJECT BOAT". I've never seen one sold that isn't still a "PROJECT BOAT" today I'm sure there are some somewhere and I bet those people would tell you all about the grief. I bet they would also tell you It cost more to get to the same condition they would have been with a better boat.

Brian

 

[captddis]

A smart man once said" boats are an expense not an investment".

 

[captddis]

I might start a grief thread and show the video of removing the old engine in the dark of night and getting it in to the cockpit. Give YB some competition.

 

[Brian Degulis]

A smart man once said" boats are an expense not an investment".

Every time my wife sorts thru the bills for our boat she says the same thing "thank god for towboats"

Brian

 

[captddis]

Every time my wife sorts thru the bills for our boat she says the same thing "thank god for towboats"

Brian

I am sure it will warm your heart to know that we used one of your barges to lift the engine and tranny off the aft deck.

 

[Brian Degulis]

Oh that cetainly does warm my heart and since I know your a true profesional that likes to have the right equiptment on hand maybe you should consider buying one of your own?

Brian

 

[captddis]

Do I get factory direct pricing? What about 120 days same as cash.

 

[Walter P]

Captddis...

Sorry if I gave the impression that I took offense about anything. I really didn't. Everyone has their own threshold on what's "grief". Sure to some having to apply a coat of varnish to a handrail is grief, but to others it's therapy. I must admit however that there has been plenty of jobs on my boat that I won't get into for various reasons, thereby avoiding the grief factor. Electrical issues are "grief" issues to me, so I seek advice and/or farm those projects out.

A quick aside if I may..... Years ago I stayed at a marina on the banana river for a winter or two. While there I met some really nice folks. One in particular comes to mind. This gentleman had a very large house on Merritt Island with his own dock etc, but kept his boat at our marina. One evening while we were all sitting around having some drinks and snacks, I asked him why he doesn't keep his boat at his own dock rather than pay for a slip. Actually he hardly ever went aboard his own boat and never took it out. His explaination was pretty funny, but it's probably pretty true. He said that boats are a PITA, which is why his was named "Preperation H", but it gave him an excuse to come down and have a good time with his fellow boat owners.

Walt

 

[nyrussell]

Heck, we could be spending the money on the house instead... LOL I et the same comment about the boat as about the houses we owned... "What? Why? How much?" and the infamous statement while painting one day (last day she painted too... "This is mindless and stupid."

So grief is whatever we consider it to be. And we have a project boat going now in the marina. I do wish him a lot of luck too.

 

[Brian Degulis]

Do I get factory direct pricing? What about 120 days same as cash.

No but Our new president will be intiating a Tug and Barge assitance program it uses tax payer money to assist people who don't like to work. Oh wait a minute you won't qualify maybe you can find someone nearby maybe in south Saint Pete to get it for you?

Brian

 

[captddis]

No but Our new president will be intiating a Tug and Barge assitance program it uses tax payer money to assist people who don't like to work. Oh wait a minute you won't qualify maybe you can find someone nearby maybe in south Saint Pete to get it for you?

Brian

I am already an Italian/ Jew/ limey. If that is not enough minority, maybe I will change my name to Kunta Kinte.

 

[nyrussell]

Nope, got a bigger problem!!!! not one of the approved ones LOL