Hatteras Resale Prices

[z28jimi]

I'm certainly not one of the younger generation of buyers with plenty of disposable income, but for me, this time around, I'm going for newer, fully aware that in some respects, newer boats are inferior to the classics, and in some respects, superior. Our original search was for a Hatteras Yacht Fish, but at the time we were searching, none were available within a reasonable proximity at a reasonable price. (There were a couple on the left coast, but a cross country trip for a hope-it-works survey didn't appeal to us.)
We found our 56' Ocean CPMY that ticked all the boxes except for the name. What I found, in our seven years of ownership, is that a large, older boat (it was 20 years old when we bought) requires a LOT of upkeep. This wasn't our first boat...I knew it would require a lot of maintenance...I just wasn't expecting a LOT of maintenance. It got to the point that the enjoyment time/maintenance time ratio got seriously upside down.
There are some on this forum who would lay that firmly at the feet of the brand name, but I disagree. I'll grant that in some, maybe many respects, Ocean and Hatteras quality is quite different, but I still think that the maintenance needs of an older boat, even a Hatteras, are more than I'm willing to bite off. To support that thesis, all I have to do is read almost any of the threads here.
I'd love to have the 58' Yacht Fish we originally sought, but only if I was as young as I was seven years ago. That ain't happening, so I'm going for newer, and betting that statistics will help me spend more time enjoying the boat than maintaining/repairing/upgrading it.
My hat is off to those of you who have the time and temperament to keep the old Hatts running. They are certainly great boats. Just don't look down your noses at those who aren't similarly inclined. There's room enough on the water for all of us.
And despite my impending move to the dark side, I intend to stay around here...this is a great source of much valuable information, no matter what boat you float.

 

[saltshaker]

Yes you can compare the two choices, it is what $300K will buy you today. The question for the buyer is which does he want to own given the disparity in ongoing cost and insurability, not to mention the ability to get financing.

Many are choosing the lesser spacer for the lesser ongoing costs, better insurance, availability of financing, etc. Plus the classic look that I so appreciate, is not necessarily what the generation behind me appreciates.

Demand goes down and so do prices.

Pete

I agree with Pascal, apples and oranges. Yes some buyers prefer a smaller boat to something like a 53 but others don't. They are different markets. If that comparison held true there would be more mid 30s boats being built and sold. If you look at what's selling new and used, it's under 30ft or 50ft and up. Look at Viking. They've started building smaller boats under 50ft but most of their sales are for the 65ft and bigger boats.

 

[Pete]

I agree with Pascal, apples and oranges. Yes some buyers prefer a smaller boat to something like a 53 but others don't. They are different markets. If that comparison held true there would be more mid 30s boats being built and sold. If you look at what's selling new and used, it's under 30ft or 50ft and up. Look at Viking. They've started building smaller boats under 50ft but most of their sales are for the 65ft and bigger boats.

The vast, vast majority of boat buyers come to the table with an upper limit on what they are able/willing to spend. At that point the choices are new/newer, smaller, underway on the water time, limited maintenance, versus much older, larger, less underway time, more maintenance.

I did not even stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but even I know that given a fixed inventory (30 year and older Hatteras'), there is one overwhelming reason for prices dropping, and that is less demand. We can all have opinions on why demand is down for our favorite boats, but there is no debate that demand is down.

Pete

 

[Seapig100]

You must be a jack of all trades to own one of these older boats, your garage needs to be full of tools, and you need time lots of time. Of all these things needed my guess is time is the hardest to come by. People making the money it takes to own these boats just don't have the time to maintain them and the younger generation is much more specialized in their skill sets. If you are not a jack of all trades you better have very deep pockets. Those with very deep pockets can afford to spend 500k on a newer boat and have less to maintain. I enjoy working on them and my son is learning skills that people are paying big bucks for so I somehow have justified the purchase.

 

[racclarkson@gmail.com]

I did not even stay at a Holiday Inn last night,

That's evident. Holiday Inn Express.

You know I'm just funning with you, right?

 

[racclarkson@gmail.com]

You must be a jack of all trades to own one of these older boats, your garage needs to be full of tools,

I can put a number on that for you if you like. I took out #350 of ballast when I brought my tools onboard.

 

[saltshaker]

The vast, vast majority of boat buyers come to the table with an upper limit on what they are able/willing to spend. At that point the choices are new/newer, smaller, underway on the water time, limited maintenance, versus much older, larger, less underway time, more maintenance.

I did not even stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but even I know that given a fixed inventory (30 year and older Hatteras'), there is one overwhelming reason for prices dropping, and that is less demand. We can all have opinions on why demand is down for our favorite boats, but there is no debate that demand is down.

Pete

I think you're still missing the point that you can't compare a 53 Hatt to a 35 Carver. Yes demand is down for these older boats for many reasons but that doesn't mean the 53 Hatt buyers are now buying mid 30s cheap boat. Boating has changed drastically and buyers are very different. By me I keep seeing more new 45-60ft boats every day. Mostly enclosed express types that run fast with good economy. Most are well over $1 mil

 

[Seapig100]

I think you're still missing the point that you can't compare a 53 Hatt to a 35 Carver. Yes demand is down for these older boats for many reasons but that doesn't mean the 53 Hatt buyers are now buying mid 30s cheap boat. Boating has changed drastically and buyers are very different. By me I keep seeing more new 45-60ft boats every day. Mostly enclosed express types that run fast with good economy. Most are well over $1 mil

I will probably never have the means to spend a million+ on a boat. However am older boat that I can fix myself is affordable and enjoyable.

 

[Pascal]

What runs most buyers off these days is lack of performance unless shopping for a trawler but then those shopping for a trawler complain about the less efficient hull design at hull speed

Nowadays most 50/60 footers easily cruise at 20/25 kts something a classic 53 can't do.

Otherwise in all fairness there with most systems maintenance on a properly maintained and regularly upgraded 1970s 53 MY isn't much worst than on a 10 year old "modern" boat Key word: maintained

For instance: generators. Unless you have the original 45 year old ohno, that s not going to make much of difference. Same with air conditioning... I ve replaced three compressors and 2 air handlers on a 2003 70 footer inused to run. Props, shaft alignment, curled bearings, stuffing boxes... doesn't matter if all that stuff is on a 1970 53MY or a 2009 59 Marquis

The key is upgrade and knowing when to stop patching up old systems even though it can be painful

I think a properly upgraded classic hatt can be as easy to maintain as a 10 to 15 year old "modern" boat of similar size at least it s been my experience with 10 years running a number of more recent boats

 

[krush]

If that comparison held true there would be more mid 30s boats being built and sold. If you look at what's selling new and used, it's under 30ft or 50ft and up. Look at Viking. They've started building smaller boats under 50ft but most of their sales are for the 65ft and bigger boats.

Well, the 30-45 foot boating market is dominated by SeaRay and that group. Now, to us on these here forums, that's not a fair comparison. BUT, to the average boater on the water, a boat is a boat. Hatteras stopped making boats in the 30-45 foot range nearly 20 years ago.

Also, the flush deck MY design is obsolete and never was good. Nearly every modern MY is a raised pilot house with a cockpit. And there is a reason. Sportfish are all pretty much the same with small styling updates over the years, but nothing major changed....except larger ones have enclosed bridge with internal staircase (very nice feature).

I could have bought a larger boat, but I wanted fuel efficiency, and realized I don't need a bigger boat. The old 41c is a very efficient hull, and the repower makes for great cruising speeds. It was totally refit in late 90's with all new wiring, lots of woodwork...but now even all that is 20 years old. It's solid bones, but it's keeping me busy updated the obsolete stuff.

I also got the old 41c because I wanted an inside station for crappy cold weather, even if only usable going slow (which, the 41c planes flat, especially with modern engines, so it can be used at speed).


If I ever moved up/on it could only be a hatteras if it was 1) a convertible with enclosed bridge and internal staircase (modern 60c, unless modified), or b) 63' raised pilot house (made early 2000's). And these are a little bigger than I really would desire, prefer something in the 50's.

OR I could dive into something like this, which isn't a hatteras, but also could be lots more time on the (maybe not out in the ocean) and much cheaper over all: http://www.samsmarine.com/forums/showthread.php?29086-Greenline-40-Hybrid.-I-hate-to-admit

Also, new hull designs that are long and narrow, or catamarans are options too. Fuel isn't as high as it was a few years ago, but it isn't $0.75 a gallon like it was pre 2001, either.

 

[Pete]

I think you're still missing the point that you can't compare a 53 Hatt to a 35 Carver. Yes demand is down for these older boats for many reasons but that doesn't mean the 53 Hatt buyers are now buying mid 30s cheap boat. Boating has changed drastically and buyers are very different. By me I keep seeing more new 45-60ft boats every day. Mostly enclosed express types that run fast with good economy. Most are well over $1 mil

Let me try again, the comparison point is one and only one, the same point a potential buyer starts with. The buyer has decided to spend no more than $350K of discretionary funds. The buyer could buy a plane, exotic car, a second home, but our buyer has decided to buy a boat. So the comparison point is "what can I get for my $350K and what are the ongoing variable costs with my choice". The buyer can choose any brand, any size, that meets his anchor point, $350K purchase price. And to use your chosen boats, a 53 Hatteras is one option along with all of it's attributes, another is a 35 Carver with all it's attributes. Each has different attributes and different negatives to be considered. That is the comparison being made.

Pete

 

[Chasemmc]

The newer generations don't have the mechanical skills to maintain a mechanical pencil let alone a 45~60 boat. If they can't swipe it or watch it on u-tube, they are clueless. Good thing Mommy lets them live at home and the Mommies in Congress keep them on the parents health care until 47 or so.

A recent book by a well known author, whom I won't mention as I don't want to get political and bruise anyone's safe space, labels them intelligent idiots. He/she/it (trying to be inclusive) defines that term as someone whom with sufficient research has the intellectual capacity to write a 30 page white paper on changing a tire, but if stuck on the side on the road with a flat would remain stranded until only his/her/its bleached bones remained.

As Rob mentioned earlier, if it flies, floats, or is focused on providing carnal pleasure its cheaper to rent. That could really be said for all boats new or old. I would think if you added up the cost of ownership and pushed it against chartering, chartering even with a with a captain would be cheaper. Now I don't think those that own boats are dumb, they just enjoy understanding and mastering systems, making them work, and the freedom to go whenever the fudge they want.

For those of us who own a MY, the justification is a little easier as they double as condos and even if you rip the running gear off one it can be plugged and parked for a snow bunny. A gulf ocean front condo 3 bedroom 3 bath goes for 750 and yes it does require maintenance (at least the fees) and appreciates (2008~11 excepted). And yes they will allow you to make payments which suprisingly are about the same as keeping an old HAT. So that HAT won't be worth anything when I'm done with it, I don't give a fig cause I'll be dead anyway so my wife's cabana boy can figure it out.

For me, I'm not going fast anywhere anymore. I am not in a hurry to accumulate more stuff or keep all the plates spinning. Let's be honest, most of the gain goes to the leaches in Washington anyway (sorry for the politics, but you don't pay taxes on what you don't have to earn). I also am not rushing off Saturday morning in a hot hurry to get to the Grounds cause I only have two days off and the other day is devoted to keeping the nag gaged.

So the comments made by most are right on the spot. If you are hammered for time, working your A$$ off trying to pay the gangsters in D.C., and will make payments to have it now, a classic HAT is not your boat. Get a swoopy looking 1/4" cored hull oil can that the first time you stuff the bow it goes missing, the fore-deck has so many angles that you need suction cup shoes to stay on board, and you need a computer degree if the engines cough. Firmly grab your ankles when its time to be serviced.

However, if your reasonably handy (let say can change your own mower blades), don't have to stay on the hamster wheel servicing payments, and value safety over swoopy, a HAT's hard to beat. Plus the systems are simple and armed with standard tools can be pretty much kept in shape given enough time.

Now I think I started this thread thinking about value in an improving economy. I wasn't' trying to compare it to 4 million dollar gel coat wonder. I am curious if the brokers or sellers on the forum were seeing a pick up in activity or a more positive attitude. I am not thinking about selling, I plan on using the boat to go to Valhalla, like the Vikings.

I know the conventional wisdom is the Gen X'ers and Millennial's are minimalists, but I think that is because their entire post graduate lives have been in an economy that doesn't allow hedonism in any form. Let them experience 5% growth for a few years and they'll be plenty interested in toys and trinkets including boats. Maybe those overprices center consoles, or perhaps a something more family friendly like a HAT. Oh, and you can keep your doctor....

 

[Pete]

That's evident. Holiday Inn Express.

You know I'm just funning with you, right?

Now I know what the problem is, wrong hotel. For sure it will be a Holiday Inn Express next time. I can't wait to be brilliant.

Pete

 

[racclarkson@gmail.com]

The newer generations don't have the mechanical skills to maintain a mechanical pencil let alone a 45~60 boat. If they can't swipe it or watch it on u-tube, they are clueless. Good thing Mommy lets them live at home and the Mommies in Congress keep them on the parents health care until 47 or so.A recent book by a well known author, whom I won't mention as I don't want to get political and bruise anyone's safe space, labels them intelligent idiots. He/she/it (trying to be inclusive) defines that term as someone whom with sufficient research has the intellectual capacity to write a 30 page white paper on changing a tire, but if stuck on the side on the road with a flat would remain stranded until only his/her/its bleached bones remained.As Rob mentioned earlier, if it flies, floats, or is focused on providing carnal pleasure its cheaper to rent. That could really be said for all boats new or old. I would think if you added up the cost of ownership and pushed it against chartering, chartering even with a with a captain would be cheaper. Now I don't think those that own boats are dumb, they just enjoy understanding and mastering systems, making them work, and the freedom to go whenever the fudge they want.For those of us who own a MY, the justification is a little easier as they double as condos and even if you rip the running gear off one it can be plugged and parked for a snow bunny. A gulf ocean front condo 3 bedroom 3 bath goes for 750 and yes it does require maintenance (at least the fees) and appreciates (2008~11 excepted). And yes they will allow you to make payments which suprisingly are about the same as keeping an old HAT. So that HAT won't be worth anything when I'm done with it, I don't give a fig cause I'll be dead anyway so my wife's cabana boy can figure it out.For me, I'm not going fast anywhere anymore. I am not in a hurry to accumulate more stuff or keep all the plates spinning. Let's be honest, most of the gain goes to the leaches in Washington anyway (sorry for the politics, but you don't pay taxes on what you don't have to earn). I also am not rushing off Saturday morning in a hot hurry to get to the Grounds cause I only have two days off and the other day is devoted to keeping the nag gaged.So the comments made by most are right on the spot. If you are hammered for time, working your A$$ off trying to pay the gangsters in D.C., and will make payments to have it now, a classic HAT is not your boat. Get a swoopy looking 1/4" cored hull oil can that the first time you stuff the bow it goes missing, the fore-deck has so many angles that you need suction cup shoes to stay on board, and you need a computer degree if the engines cough. Firmly grab your ankles when its time to be serviced.However, if your reasonably handy (let say can change your own mower blades), don't have to stay on the hamster wheel servicing payments, and value safety over swoopy, a HAT's hard to beat. Plus the systems are simple and armed with standard tools can be pretty much kept in shape given enough time.Now I think I started this thread thinking about value in an improving economy. I wasn't' trying to compare it to 4 million dollar gel coat wonder. I am curious if the brokers or sellers on the forum were seeing a pick up in activity or a more positive attitude. I am not thinking about selling, I plan on using the boat to go to Valhalla, like the Vikings.I know the conventional wisdom is the Gen X'ers and Millennial's are minimalists, but I think that is because their entire post graduate lives have been in an economy that doesn't allow hedonism in any form. Let them experience 5% growth for a few years and they'll be plenty interested in toys and trinkets including boats. Maybe those overprices center consoles, or perhaps a something more family friendly like a HAT. Oh, and you can keep your doctor....

New meds?

 

[Pascal]

The flush deck is not a good design?? How many have you owned run or been on!!! It is probably the best design one can have as everything is on one level. No steps, pilothouse by the spring lines... there is a reason Hargrave 50 then 53 was ground breaking and led to so many others. Look at every broward, burger and so many others. All flush decks

The hard part in designing a good flush deck is that it hard to do under 60/65 which is why Hargrave design was so ground breaking.

Don't get me wrong there are some benefits to the sunken salon and cockpit found on boats like Flemmings (lower CG for one) but from a practical stand point it a hard to beat a flush deck

 

[Passages]

^ What Pascal said.

Our 63 MY is a flush deck and a major selling factor (for us).

 

[racclarkson@gmail.com]

And then there’s what you want to use your boat for. That affects value, right? I wanted two things when I bought Aslan. I wanted to be the waker instead of the wakee for a change; the other was the ability to comfortably run offshore either by choice or by circumstance. My old Hatt is heavy, so she don’t pound. So it’s 1800 RPM on the river or 6’ or a bit more out on patrol. Can't do that in your SeaRay. Gotta hold on up there for sure, but momma feels safe and we all know about momma.

Ran into a guy with a pretty new 48' or 50' Sabre at Southport last month. He was taking a lay-day because his crew (wife and kids) was in a frenzied state of quasi-mutiny. I was admiring his boat and asked him what she cruised at. “Oh not as fast as you, about 32 knots.” He was surprised I did just 19 knots. “But,” he added, “I have to slow down to about 14 or 15 knots when the waves are more than two feet ‘cause my wife don’t like it rough. That’s why we're taking the day off." Noticing I had a wife with me, he asked, "How much do you have to slow down?”

This was his first boat (of any size at least) and he pontificated on how he had to run outside because of the sorry state of the waterway and his draft (maybe 4’??). Said he was running from Southport to Charleston the next day, outside. Does momma know?, I thought to myself. I said the forecast was for 3-4 and storms. He said that was preferable to the waterway hazards, notwithstanding the fact that I was there with him after having just run up from Georgetown on the ICW carrying close to a 6’ draft.

You turn left out of Southport for sea and right for the waterway. I think momma must have heard the forecast, 'cause he turned right and shorted the first marker in front of God and and most everybody. Those that missed it, didn't; he was there for a spell.

Turns out he was right after all; it is kinda shallow in spots.

 

[krush]

The flush deck is not a good design?? How many have you owned run or been on!!! It is probably the best design one can have as everything is on one level.

Who still makes one? They have no cockpits. If they do have a cockpit, it's not a real cockpit.

The pilothouse is only used for operating the boat. Having a couple steps to get to it is no issue.

The cockpit and salon should be close to the same level.

People buy a boat (as opposed to a ship) to be near the water.

 

[Boatsb]

Krush your too young to understand.

People buy boats to sit on the aft deck and watch the sun go down.

Your thinking of using a boat for fishing, watersports, swimming, kayaking, diving and other active leisure time activities.

Thats not what motoryachts were made for.

 

[Pascal]

Who still makes one? They have no cockpits. If they do have a cockpit, it's not a real cockpit.

The pilothouse is only used for operating the boat. Having a couple steps to get to it is no issue.

The cockpit and salon should be close to the same level.

People buy a boat (as opposed to a ship) to be near the water.

A I said, how many FD have you operated? If you had you d understand how practical they are especially with a cockpit or a large swim platform.

Who makes them these days? Where do I start... ocean Alexander, ferreti, azmutt, sunseeker, choy lee, hargrave, outer reef, aicon, horizon, hatteras, absolute, princess, neptunus, grand Alaskan,... the list goes on, pretty much the vast majority of yacht builders. Some may not have a lower helm especially when they have a skylounge but with the salon, size decks, aft deck all on one level they sure are flush decks.

I dont dispute the appeal of a cockpit but a higher aft deck has many benefits. Not everybody cares to fish... ad nowadays most motoryachts tow a cetnerconsole for fishing. We spend as much a 4 months a year in the Exumas and about half the motoryachts we see down there tow a CC in the 25 to 35 foot range. Even the big sportfish guys do... AT least half of the 65 to 85 sportfish we see have a 30' plus CC. last year I rode on a 76 Viking towing a 36 CC at a slow 28 knots...