Flybridge Steering not working

[captscottc]

Okay, my flybridge steering is not operating, the wheel just easily spins and spins- no stop in either direction. Lower helm steering works fine. Reservoir in engine room is about half full. No leaks detected anywhere. I assume I have an upper helm pump failure. Is there a "fix" or is it a replacement thing.
Boat is a 1971 Hatt 38 Convertible.

Thanks!!

 

[Will]

Do you have a Hynautic Steering System? If so follow bleeding instructions on this site.
Will

 

[Boatsb]

probable leak in the upper helm or its tubing and leaked down. Minute leaks will allow it to lose its prime over time.

 

[captscottc]

Do you have a Hynautic Steering System? If so follow bleeding instructions on this site.
Will

I'm not sure, I assume Hynautic because it's original ?

 

[captscottc]

probable leak in the upper helm or its tubing and leaked down. Minute leaks will allow it to lose its prime over time.

So it's likely not a failure but a leak/prime problem? I checked for leaks and found none. It worked fine on one trip except for a few seconds when it seemed to "slip", then the next trip-no steering.

THANKS BIG TIME

 

[Boatsb]

Almost definitely Hynautic. Is it a round resevour with a plastic level tube and a pressure gauge and schraeder valve on the top?

 

[MikeP]

Seal leaks in the helm pumps are not rare which will cause what you describe. In any case, as noted, a lack of fluid in the pump is the problem. There is no "stop" in the helm steering system per se - the wheel "stops" when the steering gear is full port or starboard but the wheel can actually be turned infinitely with substantially increased pressure regardless. There is a pop-off incorporated in the pump. Rebuilding a pump is almost never necessary because as long as it has had proper fluid in it as opposed to water, for example, there is not really anything that is typically going to wear out - ball bearings, springs, and a cam.

Check the pressure at the Hyd reservoir - there should be a pressure gauge there. As I recall, pressure should be 25-30PSI. Pump it up with a bicycle pump (or CAREFULLY with your air compressor). The pressure of the reservoir ONLY serves to ensure the entire system has hydraulic fluid; the pressure of the reservoir has NO effect on steering effort.

 

[captddis]

Like Mike said, Your pressure is too low to keep the fluid up to the bridge.

 

[Pascal]

Yep, classic symptoms of pressure loss. Make sure fluid level is ok in the reservoir, then hook up a pump (I always keep a bike pump on the boat!) and bring it up to 20psi

Then crank one way till pressure builds up and you get a stop. Then repeat the other way.

Tha should be it

 

[MikeP]

"Then crank one way till pressure builds up and you get a stop. Then repeat the other way."

YEP - as Pascal notes, do it until pressure builds up, however many revolutions that takes. The Hynautic bleeding instructions say something like 40 or 50 revolutions but I have found it to take as many as 100 when I replaced pump seals! If you have pressure in the reservoir, the system will self-bleed eventually though if you had a major leak/lots of air in the lines, you could be cranking for quite a while!

 

[captscottc]

Awesome guys, Thanks. I'll check the pressure tomorrow. Now I know why there is a bike pump mounted on the aft bulkhead! LOL. Ok, now being the pressure is in fact low, did it just get low over time, or do I have a leak? I'm assuming a leak somewhere?
Hopefully I'll get a chance tomorrow and check it all out. What an awesome site this is eh?
This is her here (below).
Peace-

 

[MikeP]

If the pressure doesn't drop over several months, I wouldnt worry about it at all. If I pump ours up to 25, a year later it will be at 20. I treat it like a vehicle tire - it needs to be checked and air added occasionally but absent a relatively rapid drop in pressure or visible leakage, IMO it's a non-issue. The actual pressure is relatively unimportant as long as there is some pressure to keep fluid at the upper helm/throughout the system and prevent air bubbles.

FWIW, if you feel like going to the trouble, the best fluid is 5606 hydraulic oil - available on line or at any aircraft supply place. It's 1/4 the price of Hynautic's oil and is better in the system than ATF. It's hard to tell what is actually in the system since ATF is easy to get and cheap, it is often used. 5606 was what Hynautic used to recommend until they realized they could market their own oil and sell it at a premium price. ATF works but makes the steering stiffer than 5606/Hynautic fluid.

 

[sandspur1966]

It wouldnt surprise me that, if this a new boat to you, since the PO was dilligent enough to keep a bicycle pump mounted in the ER, he likely has a gallon of 5606 squirelled away aboard.

 

[bigbill]

scott, you will find that the pressure will drop some with cold weather also, so maybe it's not a leak. pump it up and see what happens. bigbill

 

[captscottc]

Awesome info guys. Now, (being ya'll got me going here), how do I tell what type/brand fluid is in the reservoir?
I looked all over the boat and didn't find any hyd fluid. Just a case of rotella and 4 quarts of transmission fluid, a dirt devil vac, a tackle box full of fresh water tackle , a huge orange survival/first aid box, about a dozen C-map floppies, charts of the Great Lakes and Pacific ocean (this boat got around ?) a quarter fifth of Jack and a pair of womens under wear.

No duct tape or bailing wire- go figure

 

[captscottc]

scott, you will find that the pressure will drop some with cold weather also, so maybe it's not a leak. pump it up and see what happens. bigbill

Thanks Bill

 

[Boatsb]

What engines do you have. transmission fluid is not used in most diesel boat transmissions.


That could be your answer.

 

[carolinacoast]

+1 on 5606 red hydraulic fluid. lower resistance on the steering. It also helps to notice a leak when they happen. Of course the comment from my wife about the boat bleeding downstairs is another story......

 

[captscottc]

Boatsb,
8/53 Detroits

 

[MikeP]

Hynautic fluid is clear - probably tend toward yellow/light brown over time. ATF can be red as is 5606. One way to tell them apart (learned this from an aircraft guy) is to get a couple of standard black O-rings and drop a ring in a sample of each fluid. The oring in the ATF will swell noticeably after a while; the one in 5606 will not. I suspect they might smell different when both are fresh from the can but both may smell quite different after being in a system for years.

I found that our boat had ATF in the steering so I flushed it/replaced it with 5606. As BoatsB noted, one clue was the fact that there was ATF on board and no machinery that actually used it. Now there is the rather common, partially used gallon can of 5606!