florida check in

[Pascal]

Rob, so sorry to hear about the loss of your boat. It s a live aboard worst nightmare. Back in 2017, when Irma hit us here in Miami I couldn’t move my boat which was awaiting repower. I ran to Eleuthera with the 84 i captained back then thinking it was the last time I saw her. She survived, damaged but survived.

 

[Pascal]

Sky....I know your question was addressed to Rob and focussed on Legacy Marina but this same question has been asked by many. There is an assumption that there is somewhere to go! Where? Yes....one could head east upstream of Franklin Lock but then? There are essentially no facilities and those few had no slips. So what is a liveaboard to do....drop anchor and pray the storm remains on a NE path and that the winds aren't too strong?
A day before, the storm surge map didn't seem to suggest Fort Myers would be inundated keeping in mind the City ( and Legacy Marina) are about 10 miles (+/-) upstream from the Gulf. Our boat was seasonally docked at a well-protected marina closer to the Gulf. That marina was also extensively damaged but I think only 4 boats were lost. Oft times, it's a "damned if you do; damned if you don't scenario".

The NHC sites has every advisory for every storm in its archives and it s a great tool to understand the forecasts, and their limitations. 36 hours (Tuesday morning )before landfall the NHC upped the surge forecast for Ft Myers :

“* Middle of Longboat Key to Bonita Beach, including Charlotte
Harbor...8-12 ft”
https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2022/al09/al092022.public.018.shtml?

If anything, for boats in the charlotte harbir/fort Myers area the solution was pretty easy: go east on the OWW. It is worth noting that the USACOE extended the lock hours from 5pm to 10pm to allow vessel to reach safe harbor. For just about every boat, with the extended hours, the OWW could be done in a single day.

Yes finding dockage isn’t easy but there is plenty of anchorage space in the St Lucie area

The NHC also repeatedly warned the public that because of the angle at which Ian approaches the west coast, the margin of error were significantly higher than normal. Something we ve seen in the past with storms like Charlie

One thing I be always looked at when dealing with hurricanes is to pay close attention not only to the NHC forecasts but with the trend. Ian was a classic example of this and if you look at the graphic archives you can see it

https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2022/IAN_graphics.php?product=5day_cone_with_line_and_wind

Starting Sunday morning the forecast track and the landfall area started shifted east from the panhandle to the big bend and down the coast. That is a big huge red flag. The NHC never drastically shift their forecasts, it’s always gradual and that s the trend you have to look at.

Hurricane planning is tricky but the best option is always to get out of the way. It s not always easy especially when a storm approaches the coast at a shallow angle. In Florida we are lucky to have the OWW.

 

[JuiceClark]

I am calmer than my family and friends think I should be, but I am sorry to say that 2 years and 1 month to the week that we moved aboard Pau Hana and moved her to Fort Myers, our boat is gone. When the back side of the eyewall came up the Caloosahatchie River, it broke Legacy Harbor Marina apart. While Pau Hana's moorings held, the docks did not, and she was carried into a concrete pier across the entrance fairway. She was pinned there by the storm, and the rest of the marina dock sections shattered her into multiple pieces. My wife and I had evacuated to the marina hotel, and were on the second floor when she went down. The storm surge actually was up to the hood on my Chevy pickup in the marina parking lot, which was higher elevation than the hotel parking lot.

I have truly enjoyed being part of this group, and will continue to periodically log on, but right now I can't begin to even comprehend our loss. We lost everything except 3 changes of clothes, and while we have moved to a rented house 3 blocks from the marina, I still have a hard time driving by.

We are still awaiting action from our insurance company, who is stalling pending "assessment" of the damages. I've sent them pictures of the remains, to no avail. Currently we have no plan beyond the next year or so, and are deeply grateful to our friends and family who've reached out to help us with clothes, accommodations until we found a place, and a vehicle. Anyone reading this who thinks Enterprise Car Rental is a solid, reputable company, I am sorry for your delusion. Their conduct over the past 3 weeks was shameful at best, criminal at worst, and the storm does not justify the way I was treated by their Fort Myers/Boy Scout Road location.

Thank you for the advice, and camaraderie over the last 2 years. We were finally in a position mechanically and otherwise to start short cruises on Pau Hana, and in 12 short hours our dream was destroyed. The cherry on top was that this was my 57th birthday. Cruel irony that!

Rob Waldrop

I'm so sorry about everything. You were in the best marina in town, with new and very nice, big concrete docks and pilings. You're miles upriver from me. I'd have thought that would be the place to be.

Rest assured it was a perfect strike and there's not a damned thing we could've done about it.

The weathermen kept saying it was going North until the last minute. Well, Naples was worse hit than North of here because the backside was worse. Upriver could have been worse as well. Moving was a bad bet.
The back side pushed the water in at a new high tide. It stalled and pivoted right here...giving us 6+ hours of eye wall winds. NOBODY could have predicted anything like it. Anyone who says you should have known to do this or that doesn't know what they're talking about. I can't even recall a Cat5 stalling over a populated area like this. Has it ever happened?

Being behind my house is what saved my boat. There weren't any other big boats around, tied by the unsalted, which could damage mine. NINE boats were floating loose in my canal the day after the storm. Fortunately, they were small lift boats like gnats on the Hatt.

I only have a couple pairs of old shoes right now and we're definitely starting over. The house is now gutted and I'm living on the boat while construction begins. My family will return next week so the kids can return to school - but not to the Sanibel School which was outstanding. Sucks. Adding some insult to all the injury, everything to be replaced will be purchased for almost double the price of just a few years ago...and waiting months to get what used to be readily available.

We truly won the sh*t lottery with this one...100 year storm at the worst time.

 

[Bob Quinn]

I'm guessing marina dockage prices will go through the roof, for what's left of intact one if any.

 

[Bugsy]

Pascal....

So say again.....where are you going when you get past Franklin Lock? Lots of anchorages near Stuart?
That transit takes all of a day. You have Wednesday and Thursday to plan for; undertake; and, complete the journey.
Prescient as you suggest, one pursues the opportunity. No slips available so you drop your anchor. And the winds on Friday in the Stuart area were reported at 50 mph +!
We were in Guadeloupe ( Des Haies) when Lennie was reported. It was an anomoly hurricane moving from West to East forecast to cross over the VI. Where would YOU go?

We headed to St.Kitt's when going to Basseterre became untenable. We were going to haul. The harbour manager told us....two days before the hurricane's arrival; "Get out of here....now!" We thought Oliver's on St.Maarten would be safe but they didn't answer calls. Long story but we headed to Simpson Bay. As we waited for the bridge to the lagoon, we saw megayacht after megayacht depart some heading West towards the Virgins and others headed toward Antigua. What did they know? Yet others were like us....waiting and hoping to get into the lagoon.
The hurricane turned East and missed the Virgins and hit St.Maarten. Many lives were lost and hundreds of boats sunk.
It's easy to sit in one's armchair where all of the choices are obvious and the correct decision clear but those luxuries are rarely enjoyed by the poor souls in the bull's eye of an approaching hurricane.

 

[Pascal]

I remember Lenny pretty well as we were in the process of selling our house on St Barths. It was a freak storm, the only hurricane moving from west to east. Because of its approach from the west it created massive swells which caused a lot of issues on the west side of the island where most harbors are located. Indeed Deshaye must have been rough. Obviously back then technology and communication was limited but heading north to St Kitts and SXM was probably the worst option since SXM had the highest probs according to the NHC. In this case the safest way was south either around the tip of Basseterre and to Pointe a Pitre / Gosier which has great protection from the west or further south to Martinique although the swells would have still been bad with all the anchorages and dockage on the west side

The point of my post is to share what I have learned dealing with hurricanes as far back as the mid 80s having to deal with both home, boat and plane. As I said it is not easy and in some locations it can be tricky depending on which way the storm is coming. But sitting in the face of an approaching major hurricane isn’t a viable option

Again, the Corps of Engineers extended the locks operating hours before the storm to 10pm allowing transit of the OWW in a single day. By Tuesday morning the NHC forecast clearly showed Ft Myers behind close to the bullseye and in any case in the worst quadrant of the storm. That was the time leave. Anchor overnight around port St Lucie then move south the next day before the wind picked up. At this time of the year, before the snowbird arrive, there is a lot of available dockage even if that meant a few hours running down to Lake worth or even FTL

At this time of the year, you have to pay very close attention. As early as Saturday, as the timing of Ian turn to the NW then N was still uncertain, I had already started to make plans and run what ifs scenario for my own boat as well as the 116 I run. I had even called a buddy of mine who would have run my 53 and follow the 116 should we have to move.

The level of destruction in Ft Myers is heartbreaking but a lot of it was preventable.

Thankfully nowadays not only have the forecasts become very accurate but we have the tools to access the data and make decision, a luxury you don’t have 23 years ago for Lenny

 

[Dan Mapes]

Yesterday, actually by accident, we wound up on Estero Blvd on Ft. Myers Beach. We intended to turn left on Pine Ridge Rd from San Carlos but the police had set up all sorts of barricades and before we knew it we were on Ft. Myers Beach. Commercial boats were piled up on San Carlos, and the fishing fleet observed from the bridge to the beach was all piled up as well. These are all large commercial fishing boats. They are piled up like toys. Furniture, appliances, drywall, name it, was piled up high along the streets everywhere.

It's one thing to look at the destruction using the satellite link. It's a whole different perspective driving through it. We made it down Estero quite a ways before we turned around. One may see roofs on the sat image but there is nothing under that roof.

We were surprised to see the rack storage places had survived quite well.

"The level of destruction in Ft Myers is heartbreaking but a lot of it was preventable."

Maybe some of the deaths were preventable with an earlier evac order. Certainly some boats could have been saved as well. But to say a lot of this was preventable is a quite a stretch. I get the impression folks rode out Irma and thought this could not be much worse.

 

[rwaldrop13]

Thank you to everyone that replied, especially Pascal and Juiceclark- It's also important to consider that my wife is working for Lee Health, and was not able to just up and leave like we would have liked. The marina parking lot was higher elevation than most of downtown, and it still flooded to the hood on a full-size pickup. The storm surge lifted the dock sections completely off the pilings, and in fact 3 different pieces from different parts of the marina were sitting in the park lined up as if they were set there with a crane. We have no plans for another boat right now, I still plan to get my 100-ton license, but for now we're basically starting from 0.

 

[rwaldrop13]

Yesterday, actually by accident, we wound up on Estero Blvd on Ft. Myers Beach. We intended to turn left on Pine Ridge Rd from San Carlos but the police had set up all sorts of barricades and before we knew it we were on Ft. Myers Beach. Commercial boats were piled up on San Carlos, and the fishing fleet observed from the bridge to the beach was all piled up as well. These are all large commercial fishing boats. They are piled up like toys. Furniture, appliances, drywall, name it, was piled up high along the streets everywhere.

It's one thing to look at the destruction using the satellite link. It's a whole different perspective driving through it. We made it down Estero quite a ways before we turned around. One may see roofs on the sat image but there is nothing under that roof.

We were surprised to see the rack storage places had survived quite well.

"The level of destruction in Ft Myers is heartbreaking but a lot of it was preventable."

Maybe some of the deaths were preventable with an earlier evac order. Certainly some boats could have been saved as well. But to say a lot of this was preventable is a quite a stretch. I get the impression folks rode out Irma and thought this could not be much worse.

We didn't have the option to leave as far as doing OWW transit - See my other post - and the locks were NOT operating as described, since they were closing them Monday that week and not reopening per the USCG boat crews that originally were to ride out the storm at Legacy Harbor then got orders to leave Monday morning and be in Stuart Monday night.

 

[zigzag930]

Rob, very sorry for you and the family. We spent the entire storm pacing and watching Katerina (docked behind our home) hoping she'd make it though the storm. By a miracle she survived intact, with extremely minimal damage (one antenna and a stand-off).

We have a friend on a 58LRC that was at Ft. Myers City docks. He bolted for the OWW and found a marina in LaBelle where he rode out the storm with no damage. Sounds like that would have been a good choice for a lot of boat owners in the Ft. Myers area, but there is no way there would have been space for a fraction of all the boats. Timing was also a big issue and the track didn't turn south until it was too late to move.

We are in Punta Gorda, so with our LRC, it's a long slow ride to get to Label. Probably would have taken two days from here and we didn't believe the storm was aiming for us until too late.

I do hope you find another boat of your dreams at some point and continue with your lifelong plans.

 

[Pascal]

I had checked the lock operations starting Thursday and Friday in case Ian made an early turn and came our way. This is the notice of safe harbor passage issued by the COE extending hours from Sunday on until 6 hours before landfall or 35kts wind

https://www.saj.usace.army.mil/Miss...Lock-Operations-during-Tropical-Depression-9/

 

[rwaldrop13]

Everything I have heard says the lock operations were not in accordance with what was published. The USCG boats were told they had until 3PM Monday that week to get across Okeechobee, and we were told Tuesday morning the locks were not reopening until after the storm passed. Either way, we are no longer liveaboards, and are rebuilding our lives. While we didn't lose things like photo albums, or Christmas ornaments, we lost something we just can't replace. Financially or otherwise.

 

[Captain Ralph]

Everything I have heard says the lock operations were not in accordance with what was published. The USCG boats were told they had until 3PM Monday that week to get across Okeechobee, and we were told Tuesday morning the locks were not reopening until after the storm passed. Either way, we are no longer liveaboards, and are rebuilding our lives. While we didn't lose things like photo albums, or Christmas ornaments, we lost something we just can't replace. Financially or otherwise.

I'm not in this but I do have a question about printed, posted, emergency material vs from what you heard.

Where did you hear this, from who did you hear this and have you questioned them from where they heard this info from?

I am sorry for your loss. I'm not picking a fit here at all. Just mis-information drives me nuts.
I'm up river from Jax. I knew the water way locks were open.

 

[Retired1]

So basically-there’s people on this forum who think those who owned big boats should had fled inland towards, or even past the lake, is that what I’m reading? Pray tell exactly HOW the logistics of getting off the boat, and back to your homes would work? Gonna take someone with a car to pick you up, right? Let’s say you have someone who isn’t busy taking care of their own property, how exactly are they supposed to find you? There’s not a “river road” along the route. And then if miraculously they find you, exactly how are you going to get off the boat to shore? Swim? Otherwise there’s a tender to deal with isn’t there? OR is there some big rock candy marina I’m not aware of?
But if you have no one to pick you up, you think you’re just going to call a taxi to pick you up? That will work in a urban environment, but certainly not in rural areas. Which reminds me-there’s literally bulls in many of those fields on both sides of the OWW. THEN you will have to get back there don’t you? This is why people stay, never mind that these storms regularly track differently at the last moment.

Deaths from tobacco, diabetes, and heart disease is the number one cause of American deaths, there’s warning labels on most, and the dangers are well known, yet there’s cigarette smoking drunk fat fucks every where. If they don’t care about themselves, what makes you think they care about others? Especially the man made possessions (such as boats) of others? Just yesterday (kinda slow on that weren’t they? Busy pushing covid I reckon)the CDC released the fact that 7,231 Floridians alone died of drug overdoses in just 2020 alone. Maybe in 2025 they’ll tell us about this year?

I rode out Andrew on my boat up the Miami River, but had the “feeling” I should get up there over a week early, so was in the sheds of Florida Yacht Basin before others. My car happened to be in the body shop after being wacked by a tourist who had run a red light on the beach. The Rental Company wanted their car back before the storms arrival, so no car during or for weeks afterwards. Glad I had a Hobie Power Skiff with a 75 hp Yamaha, as that was our transport for weeks afterwards. It took a solid week before the sheds had cleared enough yachts to even get out Can’t even imagine the logistics in a rural area.

At that time I owned a Yacht Brokerage that was at a new marina (behind a high rise, it’s changed names so many times since I have no idea it’s name today) in North Bay Village. I personally anchored out my big boat listings of out-of-country owners- no problems other than a lot of mud to clean off all the anchor rodes. Other who didn’t put out ALl their rode- lost their boats entirely. One was eventually found up on a lawn of , up the canal of a house in Baypoint (gated community on Biscayne around 45th st) IRONICALLY I had several owners who wanted to “sell” their boats to the Insurance companies, bribed the dockmaster to allow them to leave their SeaRays in the marina. No prep at all. They were ok afterwards, with no damage. Boy were they pissed. Lol

 

[Pascal]

As I said early, it is not easy juggling home, business and boat.

One solution is to have made arrangements ahead of times with a couple of captains who could have been hired to move the boat. The cost is minimal compared to even just the hurricane deductible. In many cases your insurance will cover some of the relocation expenses just like that often cover a haul out for a named storm.

back in 2017 when I told a couple of dock neighbors that I was taking the 84 to Eleuthera, I remember them looking at me like I was nuts. In the end 200 boats were sunk in coconut grove. Granted sailboats and smaller boats couldn’t have done that run but a dozen big sport fish and MY were destroyed that could have been saved.

Boat ownership in hurricane prone areas require planning and prepping.

 

[Retired1]

Pascal, not being argumentative at all. I totally respect your opinions, but those opinions are based on the reality of Miami and Fort Lauderdale, where there’s a endless amount of qualified captains living in concrete building they don’t have to worry about- available, and dozens and dozens of boat yards with qualified workers. That doesn’t exist outside of south Florida. Over on the West Coast of Florida, most qualified captains are spoken for, and the free lancer’s likely live in one story stick built (if lucky) dwellings that need protection, and likely aren’t qualified to run large vessels.
Heck, the only marinas in Fort Myers that could even haul a big boat was (past tense) on the beach, and Owl Creek (are they still there, as I couldn’t find any recent online info from them?) which is safely east of I-75,but limited in their onland storage. That’s it. Naples and Bradenton are your next big haul out facilities.

When I moved up to Fort Pierce (so central to everywhere I used to have to either fly or drive to in Florida) when I lived in Miami, but I stupidly didn’t factor in the availability flights to and from areas outside of Florida -that were so easily booked down there) in 2014 I didn’t intend to retire, but my trusted captain, an all around one man service department who could do anything perfectly-unexpectedly got rich when his mother died, and he bought a big boat and retired!
Yeah, there’s some boatyards here, one that bills like Rybovich but delivered subpar work, (that my customers blamed me for, despite me paying the bills). I had independent contractors (they looked ok)come back to boats and steal stuff.
Captains here? No man, not the ones I met, who are likely now on the CDC overdose list! Even at the fancy $$$ yard, we suspected them high.

I retired in 2019. It’s just not possible to run a first class operation here. Heck, even the Marine Connection Liquidators who probably have everything you would need in their extensive shelves and piles-make YOU go dig for it.
That all said, the only thing I miss about Miami is the night time boating which was sublime! Traffic? What traffic?

 

[Pascal]

Back in 2016 we had to do a survey on an 84 that was in Naples and we had to do it in Ft Myers. Forgot the name but from what I saw it s gone now. So years Ft Myers was the only options for big boats.

I know there are a few Hatteras owners / captains here, I m sure that like me, they would make themselves available to move boats outside our home area.

 

[zigzag930]

We are in Punta Gorda. Ian's eye came directly over us here.

Going to be a real PITA to find a place to haul our 58LRC. Ft. Myers was really the only relatively close option that could haul 50+tons or 18' beam.

Now the options are even more limited. Maybe Naples, but most likely Tampa....

Sad times for everyone over here, but people are mostly in good spirits - despite many losing everything.

Today, I received this link of drone footage of San Carlos Island in Ft. Myers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_MAgCgkmCE

Watching it almost made me cry. Our 48' sailboat (which we sold 3 weeks before the storm) is laying there among all the others.

Seems like there isn't a good way to remove these boats from the mangroves without cutting them up. Especially those that aren't close the the edge of the water or land. Unbelievable.

 

[Bob Quinn]

So...... did anyone Forest Gump it? Just gotta ask!

 

[Pascal]

My point of view is that hauling out where a major hurricane is going to hit is not going to help as the storm surge will either float the boats up of the blocks or the wind is going to topple all of them like dominoes.

The only safe course of action is to move away from the bullseye, or Forrest-Gumping it as Bob so eloquently stated