Finally!

[Genesis]

Yeah, that's one way to go, and it works.

My boat has the under-cockpit vents, and I like 'em. Some don't, but I do. They take no salt spray while running and as a consequence the engine room has FAR fewer corrosion issues. I talked to Slane about the side vent retrofit but decided not to do it - I have no airflow issues when running with my boat at all, and the engine room remains at an acceptable temperature. I have a remote RF thermometer in the engine room that reads on the bridge at the top of the ER right over the genset (the hottest place, generally) its typically 20 degrees hotter than ambient under full power. That's not bad at all.

Side vents are great, but you really need to have a filtration system and dorade box with drains in there to handle the spray, otherwise the salt spray getting sucked in will do hellish things to everything in there over time.

 

[Liquid Asset]

Since the starboard motor is smoking with the engine room door open I definetly think It is the Airseps. I looked at them tonight without taking them oof and they are definetly dirty. I ordered new ones today and am going to install them tomorow and do a test run. I am betting that they will cure the problem. I think by looking at them that they are pretty old and possibly will not come clean anyway. I have mixed emotions about reusable/cleanable filters, but I know that Airseps are the way to go on Detroits.

I did some checking on the Vacuflush tonight and I have power to the circuit for both heads. The Master is blowing the circuit braker and it was the one that was working. The guest is just flat out not working. I need to find a wiring diagram because I am not sure what was done with these things. They are definetly not up to Hatteras wiring standars once they pass the junction plate that is in the foward bilge. Looks like somone got a case of Lazy ass when wiring these things. I am also going to just pull the entire system and rebuild so that I know what I have. I dont want to screw with this crap all the time. I want working heads.

Do yall think I would be better to just replace the vacume pumps/accumulator tank with the integrated units or rebuild the acumulator and vacume pump back to workign order. I thiknk i have space for both vacume/acumulator one piece units.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[OldHatt45]

Genesis,
If I had started with the "under the cockpit" air vents I probably would have the same feeling. But my boat had the "Ram Air" vents which suck up all the salt spray imagineable ;-)
I did in fact, put in a filtration system and drain when I did the job ;-)

Liquid Asset,
When you go to buy your Air Sep filters, look at the K & N replacements. They are the same size, and material. And generally much cheaper! K & N also makes the cleaning kit. Just a thought.

OldHatt45

 

[MikeP]

Did you actually order the airseps? If not, then change your mind and go to RACOR CCVs and some separate K&N filters. I went through this same issue a year ago. Based on info from Genesis, who also USED to use the Airseps, I went with the CCV's. If it's not too late, I suggest you do the same; it's a much better system.

 

[34Hatt]

Re: Fuel & Snake Oil

Don't go crazy cutting holes and polishing yet. Last summer there was a 60' Bertram in Montauk only a couple years old. Smoked like crazy and was getting worst. H.O.Penn certified Cat mechanics came out to the boat 3 times and could find nothing wrong. Finally they said they wanted to change all the Injectors price quote $30,000.00. They are electronic motors and each had 16 injectors. Owner decide to give the AJX Perfect Fuel a try well guess what it cleared up... Pretty good for a Snake Oil, I feel that anyone that calls it a snake oil has not tried it. Also there has been other members of this forum who have tried it and claimed the have had good result with the diesel and gas products. So it will cost you about $110.00 for the TCS & TMS but that sounds a lot cheaper then a lot of the other choice's you are thinking of. Heck that is 39 gals worth of fuel in the North East.
Dan

 

[Genesis]

Yep. Airseps suck (literally) - if you like oil-fouled turbos and aftercoolers they're great, but most of us think that's a serious pain in the maintenance azz....

 

[Liquid Asset]

Is there a part number for the K&N and the Racor CCV? I can handle doing the work, I just need a little push in the right direction with this.

 

[Traveler 45C]

OldHatt,

The Slane vents made that much of a difference? Do they come with a filtration system? If not, what did you install? Which engines do you have?

Genesis,

What is a dorade box?

My engine room hatch is definitely harder to open when I’m running. The suction in there is significant but I don’t blow any black smoke.

 

[Genesis]

Traveller - get a manometer, and figure out what you're pulling for intake vacuum. That is the only way to know for sure if you have a problem or not.

Realize that the hatch is quite large, heavy, and in addition when under power your boat is operating at a bow-up angle (usually 3-5 degrees), plus of course the boat is moving.

You may or may not have an airflow problem, and the only way to know is to measure. Airflow problems are extremely damaging to engines - so is salt spray!

A dorade box is a box constructed such that air and entrained water drops come in, and the drops are flung against a surface and coalesced due to the path the airflow takes. The water is allowed to run out, and the air continues in. They're part and parcel of any well-design vent system on a boat. Unfortunately, many engine room air vent systems don't include them as they DO restrict airflow to some extent, and thus raise the size of the vents needed.

In addition you want a coalescing filter (e.g. spun fiberglass in a plastic - not paper - frame) to help trap salt particles that continue onward.

Done right, you can have nearly salt-mist-free air taken in through side vents. But vent plates alone do not do it, and done wrong you will have horrible corrosion problems below decks in your engine room.

 

[Traveler 45C]

I’ll get the manometer on the list.

The heavier hatch is definitely cause by suction, I can hear and feel the air going past. And, when the hatch is open, the salon door gets heavier…

I would think that Hatt would have installed dorade boxes and filters on our boats. I’ll check mine out.

Thanks.

 

[Genesis]

Ok, that's an issue

You probably have an issue that needs some investigation then.....

 

[Liquid Asset]

How do I determine the corect Racor CCV? I see there are multiple sizes and I do not know which one. Plus, does anyone have a source and part number for the K &N filters?

 

[Genesis]

There's an application guide on Racor's web page.... failing that, call them.

 

[Liquid Asset]

Genesis,
You said I can get replacement 32v motors for the Vacuflush vacuum units. Where can I get these? I need two and no one has them that I can find.

 

[jim rosenthal]

I also use Racor CCVs, I bought them from Seaboard Marine in Oxnard, CA. Call them and talk to Tony Athens, the guru. He can set you up with CCVs including all the plumbing you will need, and S&B filters which are similar to K&N but half the price and bigger. My engines run better with these than they ever did with Airseps. There are some basic flaws in the Airsep design that make it very likely they will do the engine more harm than good, and you don't have much say over what the Airseps do once they are fitted. I set my CCVs up as oil separation and collection devices- I drain them manually- which seems the safest and best way to do it. I would rather have to drain a lot of oil out of them, and know that I had a serious blow-by problem, than just feed it back into the turbo inlet and gum up the intake path of the engines.
Tony gave me everything I needed to do the install and it was duck soup. Everything I have ever bought from him has fit the first time and worked fine. I highly recommend him. Not the cheapest, but the best.

 

[Genesis]

Genesis,
You said I can get replacement 32v motors for the Vacuflush vacuum units. Where can I get these? I need two and no one has them that I can find.

Hmmm... 32V motors may be a problem. I know 24s are readily available.

Try calling Sealand directly - if they're still available they will know.

(If not, do you have a 12V house system anywhere? You could use 12V for the pump motors if necessary if so.)

 

[rmaher]

There is a 32v sealand vacuflush pump (Item number: 4568064750) on ebay but it ends in 6 hours!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SEALAND-VACUFLUSH-GENERATOR-MOTOR-32V_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ26449QQitemZ4568064750QQrdZ1

Hope it helps!

 

[Liquid Asset]

I found that, fortunetly I am the current high bidder.

 

[OldHatt45]

Traveller45c,

While what Genesis says is valid, In this case, I Have personal experience. On the early 70's 45's (and this is Directly from Tom Slane) they were experimenting with "the RAM AIR Concept" and the air vents are toooo small. The original Air Vents provide 66 square inches of Intake area. I have 871TI's which according to Detroit are capable of developing 450HP (according to Hatteras they are rated at 435HP). The formula used for determining intake area necessary is Horsepower divided by 3.3. In my case that would be 450/3.3 = 136.36 Square Inches (minimum to support 450HP). Roughly double that provided by the stock Hatteras Air Vents. The Slane version vents provide 234 square inches of intake area. Do I need to say anymore ;-)

Now go ahead and get the manometer as Genesis said, and do your measuring. Then get on the phone to Tom, and tell him what your manometer said and act surprised when he tells you what I just said. (lol)

Oh, by the way Traveller, you'll probably pick up half a knot in the process (cooler engine room, cooler fuel, more horsepower, etc.....) and you can talk to a Detroit engineer, just call them, they'll be only too happy to answer your questions.

As far as Filtration goes, I went to Home Depot and got 4 Furnace type Air filters (the kind with the aluminium backing. Cut them to fit (got a couple of pieces out of each one. Put Duct tape on the exposed edges, slid them in place and put two screws up from the Engine room to hold them in place.

I buy new filters every winter, and as part of my commissioning exercise, I slide the old ones out and put the new ones in.

The Dorade boxes????? But I believe what they are is basically drains. and when you see the new vents from Tom, you figure out whether or not you want to put them in. I leave that to you.

Genesis,
Realizing you have way more experience then me, I respect and value your opinions. But, in this case, I've done my homework. And what I've stated here is fact. In almost any other case, I would most certainly defer to your suggestion, but these old 45's are a known quantity. ;-)

OldHatt45

 

[Genesis]

Heh, the ram air thing is a different matter. And regardless of original configuration, if you've got a significant vacuum on the hatch when running there's a problem and one way or another you NEED to fix it.

Slane's vents are a decent solution, and sure are pretty, but no solution is perfect. Giving up the cockpit air induction is something I wasn't willing to do when on my boat, at full cruise, I had no significant vacuum and no temperature rise problems. I also have no corrosion problems of significance in the engine room and didn't feel like having them added to the mix!

If 'ya got a problem with the vacuum in the ER while running, then that's a different matter, and the configuration on these things HAS changed. All depends on the particulars of your boat and what's been done since it left the original yard.

And yes, Hatt has screwed up a time or three. Ask me about how they secured the head plumbing if you want to hear some swearing on the other end of the phone sometime......