Engine room/Genny Room overhead insulation material?

[MikeP]

I recall this coming up before but can't seem to find it...

The underside of the galley floor above the genny room and the underside of the floor in the salon over the Eng rooms has insulation that sort of looks like compressed fiberglass insulation with a white, textured outer surface. I have noticed in the genny room that it is beginning to shed white particles in some areas. The engine rooms don't seem to be doing it. The insulation material itself does not seem to be degrading, it is the white, outer layer that is shedding particles - like large dust particles. Is that outer layer just paint?

It seems that a couple of solutions might be possible -

1. Seal the white surface with something or repaint (if that's what it is). This would probably work for a while but I doubt it would last long term since it would applied on top of the shedding surface.

2. Replace the insulation with new material - big PITA.

3 Ignore it and vacuum up the dust particles occasionally. (Current procedure)

What have others done with this?

 

[saltshaker]

I replaced all mine with Soundown. Mine was shedding and needed to be done plus I was repowering at the time so it made sense to do it at that point. I would address it as you don't want that dust getting into the engine side of the generator. If it's in good shape otherwise, you can paint it. I've never done it but others claim it works. If it's only a few sections, SAMs might have the material. It comes out easily and is screwed in place with no glue.

 

[rsmith]

I have the same problem but the cloth covering is starting to come loose in the corners. Back in the mid 90's I had a friend with a 53c covered his ER in a marine grade acoustic foam. It had a layer of some type of sound deadening plastic funning through the middle. The noise reduction was so great he threw away the sound covers on the gennys. After 5 years the foam turned into that foam rot where it starts falling apart and turns into black goo. I bought enough at the time to do mine too but never got around to it. When I opened the boxes it was the same mess even though it was not exposed to heat or moisture. $2k worth of the crap ended up at the curb.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I painted mine in the Gen room several years ago and it still looks good and no shedding.

 

[Walter P]

I used Soundown on bulkheads and overhead as well as the door leading to the engine room.. Major difference. Not cheap but easy to install except bulkheads which required removal and reinstallation of wires, tubing, brackets etc. Looks good and really brightens up the ER with its shiny alum (Mylar?) outer skin.

Walt

 

[saltshaker]

The Soundown won't do that. Mine was 10 years old and still looked like new when I sold the boat. Pretty sure its still in great shape. The difference in sound absorption is huge. Key is to make sure there are minimal gaps. If you remove the wall panels in the salon and insulate behind them, you'll be amazed how much quieter the boat is.

 

[bobk]

Years back the auto industry used a fireproof sound deadening rubber on the fire wall. I had a source of it some 30 years ago when I was doing research in the rubber industry. It is very dense and heavy but flexible enough to simply tack it up over what ever you are trying to 'protect'.

Bobk

 

[Angela]

I recall this coming up before but can't seem to find it...

The underside of the galley floor above the genny room and the underside of the floor in the salon over the Eng rooms has insulation that sort of looks like compressed fiberglass insulation with a white, textured outer surface. I have noticed in the genny room that it is beginning to shed white particles in some areas. The engine rooms don't seem to be doing it. The insulation material itself does not seem to be degrading, it is the white, outer layer that is shedding particles - like large dust particles. Is that outer layer just paint?

It seems that a couple of solutions might be possible -

1. Seal the white surface with something or repaint (if that's what it is). This would probably work for a while but I doubt it would last long term since it would applied on top of the shedding surface.

2. Replace the insulation with new material - big PITA.

3 Ignore it and vacuum up the dust particles occasionally. (Current procedure)

What have others done with this?

Our boats are the same age, and I've got the same problem. I've been doing #3 for a long time; I doubt #1 will work - I considered that and came to the belief that anything I put on it will simply fall off with the underlying material (akin to painting over peeling paint or rust thinking it won't lift); and I'm going to have to do #2. So, just suck it up and do #2. It looks like I can just apply a new insulating material over the old. I only have to do this in my genny room. The ER ceilings are lined with aluminum sheeting.

 

[MikeP]

Thanks all! In any case it will be a next year "thing to deal with" and it's good to know that the existing insulation is not glued in.

For now it is only occurring in the Generator room and only on the panels above the batteries on the starboard side. Why just the starboard, I have no idea. If I brush against other panels, they will shed some particles but they haven't SO FAR been dumping it on their own.

 

[rsmith]

Acid fumes??? Mine is the same way over the battery banks

 

[MikeP]

Acid fumes??? Mine is the same way over the battery banks

Seems logical to me but I would think the port and starboard would do the same thing. The Outback inverter charges all batts as one combined bank so they don't see different charge rates.

 

[saltshaker]

It's not a bad job and you'll be amazed at how easy it all comes apart. I did mine and only 1 screw out of about 1000 was hard to get out. The panels popped right out. Biggest pain is removing anything that's attached to the bulkheads or overheads. If you only do the overhead it's a breeze. When you're ready to do it I can give you some tips on what to buy and how to install. By far one of the best upgrades I've ever done on any of my boats.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

It's not a bad job and you'll be amazed at how easy it all comes apart. I did mine and only 1 screw out of about 1000 was hard to get out. The panels popped right out. Biggest pain is removing anything that's attached to the bulkheads or overheads. If you only do the overhead it's a breeze. When you're ready to do it I can give you some tips on what to buy and how to install. By far one of the best upgrades I've ever done on any of my boats.

Okay. I'm convinced. What are the tips?

 

[johnjen50]

Me too. And where did you get the Soundown? My boat had both engines rebuilt about 250 hours ago before I bought it and thy did not replace a lot of the insulation. I would love it to be quieter.

 

[MikeP]

I'll "third" that, tips will be much appreciated!

 

[SeaEric]

I found the Soundown and related products on Amazon.

 

[saltshaker]

I did mine back in 2002 but they still make the same products. I sold that boat almost 5 years ago so I’m going on memory for the specifics regarding size of materials. I purchased everything through the yard that was doing the repower but they gave me the same pricing as if I bought it direct from Soundown. I went with the foam/barrier/foam composite sheets. They'll make them up with different materials and different thickness depending on your needs and space. I used a vinyl barrier sandwiched between two layers of foam. I remember it being 4" but it may have been 3", I think I have some scrap pieces in the garage and will check. Product came in 4'x4' sheets. I ordered mine with white mylar facing. The facing is pretty tough and has a fabric weave similar to some packing tapes. I also ordered mine with a self-adhesive backing instead of using a brush on or spray product. That setup worked great for me and I never had an issue with the product or installation for the years I had it. I used fasteners on all panels except for the ER door and that held up perfectly. Soundown sells fasteners but I opted to use stainless screws and fender washers. I went a bit heavy on the fasteners as I wasn't sure how well the adhesion would hold. I probably could have gone smaller but better safe than sorry. I have some boxes left over and will check to see what size fasteners I bought. I think screws and washers were much easier to deal with and offered more flexibility over Soundown’s hanging pins. Wear gloves and a mask when dealing with the old insulation. It does shed and the fibers become airborne when you start taking things apart. If you can remove the old insulation intact they work great as templates. If not either measure well or cut cardboard templates for each piece. The original insulation should be screwed into place with no adhesive. That’s how they came from the factory. Unscew each panel and they should pop out easily either by pulling from the screws or using a putty knife to pry them loose. All of mine came right out with little to no effort. I did all the overheads first because some of the bulkhead insulation may cover part of the overhead making a clean tight fit more difficult. If you have any hatches you can remove and work on upside down, start with those to get a feel for what works best for you. I cut everything slightly larger and trimmed the vinyl barrier a hair more to ensure a snug fit without any gaps. Map out your pieces to minimize waste and do the largest sections first. I cut mine using a sharp utility knife. I used the ones that have the long blades that you snap off to refresh. I liked these because you can extend them and get a deeper cut. You can use a saw to cut the panels but I found it difficult to get a real clean cut as the foam would stick to the blade and tear. Once cut dry fit the piece. Once you have a tight fit, tape the ends of the piece with matching mylar tape you get from soundown. You'll need to peel back the backing for the self-adhesive layer slightly to wrap the tape. Apply the tape to the mylar side first and run it the entire length before folding over the foam. You can lift the tape off the mylar but once it's on the foam you can't remove it without ruining the tape or tearing the foam. Once the piece is taped up, do another dry fit and make sure you put the piece up the same as the dry fit. Some panels may not be as square as they appear and rotating the panel may not give you the same fit. Once you place the panels with the adhesive exposed you don't want to remove or try to shift them. Remove the protective backing and line the panel up to one edge first and lightly set in place. If the fit is good, press it in firmly. Coat each screw with a small amount of light grease. If you don’t do this the foam will start to wrap around the screw about half way through the first layer. I did not predrill and holes. When you screw in the fasteners make sure you don't compress the foam too much. I let it compress slightly for a tight fit and even look. I screwed each piece in at the corners about 3"-4" in from the edges. I added additional fasteners every 12” or less. You’ll set the pattern based on the individual panels but I tried to keep mine consistent with adjoining panels. All of this was pretty easy to do and very straight forward. The materials are very easy to work with and top quality.

 

[douglasl]

Jack,

How heavy were the pieces? I've read about some Soundown pieces being about 2 lbs per sq foot.

Was the total weight added make any significant GPM difference?

 

[saltshaker]

Weight wasn't that bad and not enough that it was of any concern. Not that much square footage to begin with. I was repowering to bigger engines so I can't say if there was any cost to performance or NMPG

 

[Avenger]

When we did my father's boat with Soundown the liner was lead. They probably don't offer that anymore, since it's not PC. Heavy stuff, but it worked very well.