Denninger, have you lost your mind?

[Sparky1]

Dang Skip, that was a bit harsh.

 

[Boatsb]

If the administration keeps going like it is he will not be alone. Especially if you cant sell your hatt in a terrible market.

 

[Brian Degulis]

Dang Skip, that was a bit harsh.

The truth has a nasty little way of doing that.


Brian

 

[Sparky1]

Dang Skip, that was a bit harsh.

The truth has a nasty little way of doing that.


Brian

Yeah, but who are we to judge?

If the wife dumps my ass, I'll be uninsured as well as owning two Hatts. I'd hate to think of how I would be thought of on here if that happens if this is the way it works. Then again, I probably wouldn't come out of the divorce still owning two Hatts, so maybe I'm good.

 

[labrador]

Randy, whats harsh about it? I had a bad couple of years so what was the 1st thing to go? My Hat!!! I would never put my loved ones in that position if I had the assets to cover it. Some will and thats their choice, just don't make me pay thru taxes or any other way for their choice not to insure.

 

[Sparky1]

Randy, whats harsh about it? I had a bad couple of years so what was the 1st thing to go? My Hat!!! I would never put my loved ones in that position if I had the assets to cover it. Some will and thats their choice, just don't make me pay thru taxes or any other way for their choice not to insure.

I don't recall Bill supporting this health care crap, so I'm not sure where that's coming from. Outside of that, I'm not going to stand in judgment of someone, especially when I don't know all the facts.

Now when I see somebody standing in line to spend $200 on lottery tickets while their three kids behind them have no shoes, I'll pass judgment.

 

[Brian Degulis]

Yeah, but who are we to judge?

If the wife dumps my ass, I'll be uninsured as well as owning two Hatts. I'd hate to think of how I would be thought of on here if that happens if this is the way it works. Then again, I probably wouldn't come out of the divorce still owning two Hatts, so maybe I'm good.

Well yeah if you chose to keep 2 Hats and then asked for the taxpayers to buy you health insurance I think you be thought of as a freeloader.
I have no problem judging my conscience is clear. People like to use words like government subsides or universal health care or public assistance. What they're really saying is I didn't prepare I didn't put in the effort or make the sacrifices so now I'm having trouble paying for my health care. So I want everyone who did put in the effort, made the sacrifices and prepared for the future to pay for my health care for me. Catastrophic coverage with a high deductible is readily available and not expensive but you have to plan ahead. It has to be a priority when your healthy so it's there when your not. I just don't believe in confiscating money from the responsible to prop up the irresponsible. That's not to say that I don't think anyone should help anyone else. I just don't believe government has the right to confiscate money from me then decide who gets it.

Brian

Brian

 

[Jaxfishgyd]

"Recession is when your neighbor loses his job.....

Depression is when you lose yours......

Recovery is when Obama loses his....."

Hey, it was on a t-shirt......

 

[Sparky1]

Well yeah if you chose to keep 2 Hats and then asked for the taxpayers to buy you health insurance I think you be thought of as a freeloader.
I have no problem judging my conscience is clear. People like to use words like government subsides or universal health care or public assistance. What they're really saying is I didn't prepare I didn't put in the effort or make the sacrifices so now I'm having trouble paying for my health care. So I want everyone who did put in the effort, made the sacrifices and prepared for the future to pay for my health care for me. Catastrophic coverage with a high deductible is readily available and not expensive but you have to plan ahead. It has to be a priority when your healthy so it's there when your not. I just don't believe in confiscating money from the responsible to prop up the irresponsible. That's not to say that I don't think anyone should help anyone else. I just don't believe government has the right to confiscate money from me then decide who gets it.

Brian

Brian

Damn, this reading comprehension problem on here seems to be contagious. Bill didn't say anything about expecting taxpayers to pick up the tab on his health insurance, and neither did I.

Other than that, we're in total agreement on everything else you said. How about you Bill? LOL

 

[Brian Degulis]

Damn, this reading comprehension problem on here seems to be contagious. Bill didn't say anything about expecting taxpayers to pick up the tab on his health insurance, and neither did I.

Other than that, we're in total agreement on everything else you said. How about you Bill? LOL

I know you didn't and I know your not for that sort of thing I know because I've been reading your posts. I've been reading Trojans also and I'll admit that does efect my interpertation of what he writes but her's what he wrote.

"Do you really think people getting minimum wages in this economy can afford health insurance let alone office calls. I have 6 family members with children that can't find work and have no insurance. Who is going to help them when they get ill. The same hospital that treated my best friend. Something needs to change. Free trade SUCKS it won't work in the USA. The housing issue didn't cause the recession it was FREE TRADE. The recession will not be over until our pay is the same as the countries we trade with. Our congress is blind. I don't see any pay cuts in Washington. Wake up America. If you want to see the country in 6 to 10 years just look at South America. There rich and there are dirt poor no in between. Reagan and Clinton were our worst presidents.

I don't think those are the words of someone who's against using taxpayer dollars to spread the wealth around.

Brian

 

[Sparky1]

I know you didn't and I know your not for that sort of thing I know because I've been reading your posts. I've been reading Trojans also and I'll admit that does efect my interpertation of what he writes but her's what he wrote.

"Do you really think people getting minimum wages in this economy can afford health insurance let alone office calls. I have 6 family members with children that can't find work and have no insurance. Who is going to help them when they get ill. The same hospital that treated my best friend. Something needs to change. Free trade SUCKS it won't work in the USA. The housing issue didn't cause the recession it was FREE TRADE. The recession will not be over until our pay is the same as the countries we trade with. Our congress is blind. I don't see any pay cuts in Washington. Wake up America. If you want to see the country in 6 to 10 years just look at South America. There rich and there are dirt poor no in between. Reagan and Clinton were our worst presidents.

I don't think those are the words of someone who's against using taxpayer dollars to spread the wealth around.

Brian

Well, I guess now I know why certain things were said on this thread not having noticed that quote from Bill.

Sorry your kids are out of work there Bill and have no insurance, but I'm afraid my sympathy doesn't translate into my feeling good about paying for their care. No offense, but that's what family and even churches are for. At least that's the way it used to be.

Seems to me that too many people have forgotten how their parents and/or grandparents survived without that big ole' government tit. Nobody in this country starved to death in daily life 75 or so years ago, and I venture to guess that not that many were denied medical care when they needed it... not white folks anyway, but let's not go there.

I'm thinking there's a lesson to be learned by looking back to the way things used to be when people took care of themselves, their families, and their friends. Used to be some were offended at the prospect of accepting charity. Now it seems there are far too many who are demanding it as a right.

 

[Trojan]

Well, I guess now I know why certain things were said on this thread not having noticed that quote from Bill.

Sorry your kids are out of work there Bill and have no insurance, but I'm afraid my sympathy doesn't translate into my feeling good about paying for their care. No offense, but that's what family and even churches are for. At least that's the way it used to be.

Seems to me that too many people have forgotten how their parents and/or grandparents survived without that big ole' government tit. Nobody in this country starved to death in daily life 75 or so years ago, and I venture to guess that not that many were denied medical care when they needed it... not white folks anyway, but let's not go there.

I'm thinking there's a lesson to be learned by looking back to the way things used to be when people took care of themselves, their families, and their friends. Used to be some were offended at the prospect of accepting charity. Now it seems there are far too many who are demanding it as a right.

I suppose you have $378.000 laying around to pay for a quad bypass.
People didn't live to be 85 back in the sixties.You can't begin to compare the medical equipment or services of the sixties to today's. Just my pacemaker price alone jumped from $75,000 to $127,000from 1996 to 2002. I'm now due anytime for a new one. What will the price be this time. I'm lucky to even have insurance. And yes many old people did starve back then. They also ate dog food, used candles and went bare foot. Along with freezing to death in the winter. The one thing that halted the depression was the war . It provided jobs for everyone. The fifties and sixties had lowsey medical. Xray was the latest machine. People sold there homes to pay for hospital bills. if they had one. People then didn't take care of there selves. Who are you kidding. Drinking, smoking and chew was a common thing. Of course people didn't go to the hospital then. There was nothing they could do except minor surgery. You died in your home. You need to walk in there shoes. I don't wish you bad luck, but you need a taste of poverty. Churches provide more today than they ever did. My children won't go without food if I can prevent it. You have been living fat to long. You can't get jobs if there not there and you can't sell to people with no money. Until your hurt you don't know pain. How did they treat cancer back than, pneumonia. whooping cough. They didn't you died. They didn't even call it cancer then. It didn't have a name. I don't ever want to see the fifties or sixties again. Don't ever think that you could live like we did back then. You would never make it in there or my shoes. I would gladly give some of my money for medical if it was used correctly. Your day will come. When your young your invincible. Wait till you get some age you will change your mind. My mother and father are 93 years of age and I provide them with anything they need. On a lighter note, My father plays 18 holes of golf 3 or 4 days a week. Mom complains he doesn't take her with him.
BILL

 

[Sparky1]

Bill, you make valid points about the facts that people on average live longer these days and medical advancements are the reason that is true. No doubt it cost a lot of money for those advances and taking advantage of this new technology is an expensive proposition. I suppose that's the price we pay for playing God.

That still doesn't change the fact that health care is neither a God given nor individual right. Hey, I've been down the poor road before, and I know what it feels like to be hungry, cold, and all alone with not so much as a telephone. As for insurance, I would be financially ruined right now had I had not been insured a few years ago and would most likely be dead had I not been able to get treatment, so I've been there / done that too.

Bottom line is, life is tough, but I don't expect anybody to pick up the tab when things go bad. Not saying that you do, but many fall into that category. There are jobs out there to be had, but many just don't want to work. Others think it is beneath them to accept a lower paying job than the one they lost. As long as there is an option to let somebody else take care of them, they won't have as much motivation to do it for themselves. It all comes back to personal responsibilty.

 

[Boatsb]

Give it up Randy. personal responsibility is long gone. need more cash make more kids. The taxpayers can afford it. Want a new place to live trash the old one. The rich landlord can afford it. Owe mone and don't want to pay it back File bankruptcy the people who trusted you to pay it back can afford it.

Society is so screwed up because everyone thinks the big companies can just absorb it.

Look at the cost of benefits and you will see why companies leave the country. Look at the cost of environmental BS ( no I do not defend dumping chemicals in the lake where your kids swim) from AGW and see why manufacturing is relocated. Free trade with countries that do not maintain similar levels of emission controls and employee benefits is not free trade. It's industrial suicide.

Do you really think the 535 idiots in DC don't know this? Do you think they care? They have health care and retirement plans that are protected from the damage they cause and that is no accident.

As it comes to living longer and the cost of it I hate to be a Darwinist but the uninsured should not collapse the system for the hard working just because they want the care. If they did not work for and plan for their medical needs why should we foot the bill. Somewhere there needs to be a differentiation between basic medical needs and advanced care.

 

[Genesis]

No, I have not lost my mind.

BTW I'll be happy to discuss this, but only where discourse is going to be reasonable and people will deal with reality.

By the way, we're all mortal.

Get over it.

 

[Brian Degulis]

It's all about how you see things. Some people look at all the self made millionaires in this country and see them as proof that they to can do it if they're willing to put in the effort and make the sacrifices. Others look at the self made millionaires and say they owe me. I feel sorry for the second group what a helpless feeling it must be to be dependant on Government.

Brian

 

[Sparky1]

No, I have not lost my mind.

BTW I'll be happy to discuss this, but only where discourse is going to be reasonable and people will deal with reality.

Where would that be?

 

[thoward]

No, I have not lost my mind.

BTW I'll be happy to discuss this, but only where discourse is going to be reasonable and people will deal with reality.

By the way, we're all mortal.

Get over it.

That is fine by me....

First and foremost, how do you allow Gov to set the price of health care but say you support a free market? They do not fit together.

100% insurance coverage is like a never ending stimulus to the health care industry. It falsely raises prices and consumers are cheering Drs on to "stick it to my insurance company". That is what needs to be regulated.

Also I was not clear on "accept anyone", are you including pre-existing conditions? People keep begging for that but it only serves to drive up costs.

I contend the best answer is to eliminate employer coverage and regulate insurance to catastrophic only with 2 "free" health exams per year.

Limit malpractice cases to those with a disciplinary board ruling of negligence.

Compile a "best practices" policy

Allow ER to refuse care to non-life threatening events.

 

[Brian Degulis]

Where would that be?

Well here you go starting trouble again. Karl is the voice of reason and a shining example of civil discourse and inteligent reasonable conversation. I offer the following quote as proof of that.

"
Re: Cap and trade - 06-29-2009, 08:35 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MOUTHPIECE?

Bite me you jackass.

Do go watch the video. Then go read The Ticker and judge for yourself, or why don't you do the honorable thing you spineless wimp and ask Randy or Stef yourself?" (Quote Genisis)



Brian

 

[Genesis]

That is fine by me....

First and foremost, how do you allow Gov to set the price of health care but say you support a free market? They do not fit together.

I said no such thing.

I said if you sell to one group without pre-existing condition and individual rating tests you must allow anyone else under the same circumstances to buy under the same price.

This is called Robinson-Patman and has applied for the purpose of Goods for quite some time. It is part of anti-trust law. What part of enforcing anti-trust law doesn't make sense?

100% insurance coverage is like a never ending stimulus to the health care industry. It falsely raises prices and consumers are cheering Drs on to "stick it to my insurance company". That is what needs to be regulated.

No, the free market says that if such is unsound it will lose, provided you cannot FORCE people into that model. Insisting on a major-medical option for only catastrophic conditions, level billing (no "screw you because you don't work for the right company" or "screw you because you choose to pay cash") will fix this.

Also I was not clear on "accept anyone", are you including pre-existing conditions? People keep begging for that but it only serves to drive up costs.

Of course I am. If I go to work for GM whether or not I have a pre-existing condition has NO BEARING on whether or not I can obtain insurance. Anyone should be able to buy under THEIR plan if they so choose, provided that GM has employees in your state.

I contend the best answer is to eliminate employer coverage and regulate insurance to catastrophic only with 2 "free" health exams per year.

There is no such thing as "free".

Further, what I proposed would eliminate the lock-in between employment and health care - you could buy any insurance policy from any carrier that offered insurance to anyone in your state, no matter who you worked for (including yourself.)

Breaking the employer/health-insurance lock is critical and my plan does that.

Limit malpractice cases to those with a disciplinary board ruling of negligence.

Compile a "best practices" policy

Solve the 80% of the problem first. The other 20% we'll deal with later (my plan is silent on this point intentionally, it is not an unintentional omission.)

Allow ER to refuse care to non-life threatening events.

They already can.