Considering 1975 36 Convertible, 3208 320's

[bhostrawser]

Hatts are more rare on the west coast and the shipping from the east coast more expensive than you east coast guys realize, and the going prices reflect this. It was going to be $50k to ship and insure a 60C, and that was eight years ago! It simply won't pencil out for a $40k boat.
I know an excellent surveyor in SoCal named Bunker Hill, PM me if you need contact info.

Thanks for the recommendation. I may take you up on that. What is the mileage charge from SoCal to Santa Cruz? As far as surveyors go, ground tackle is right up there with propulsion, steerage, and emergency gear. Was there any inspection of the chain or rode? Nothing beyond, there is some chain there, maybe some line. It is connected properly? Is it worn, corroded, weak, undersized? In my book, the level of inspection I got was not an adequate job for the level of risk involved. Maybe thats just my cruising background talking. When I pay somebody for a skilled service, I am expecting that they do a better job than I could do in the same time. What I find out all too often, is that I am overly optmisitic.

That's what I was thinking unless he plans to put a lot of money into this boat to fix it. 2 years ago a West Coast buyer had a 58C under contract that was in Destin FL. After he got real estimates of shipping cost, he withdrew his offer. I was told his estimates ranged from 50K-75K. Same happened a few months ago with a 55C in Ft Lauderdale. Buyer from WA pulled out when he found out how much the shipping was. A 36C should be a lot less since it can be trucked, but it's still a decent chunk of change. He may do better with an East Coast boat if he can get a good one for similar money. The shipping could wash the repair cost and he'd have a better boat in the end. I don't think he'll get a great repowered 36C for 40K-50K so As Dave said, it doesn't look like it would add up to ship one.

It doesn't sound like the one he's looking at is all that bad. There are some issues to deal with and some won't be cheap but she does have newer power and the 3208's are great engines. I think he needs to do a bit more investigating as to the poor performance and maybe get a price adjustment on some of the more significant deficiencies. Remember he did say the boat was very clean, that's a big one for a boat of this vintage.

Yeah, I've put a few calls in and have a buddy who shipped his 38 footer out here about 10 years ago from North Carolina. At that time, he worked with a trucking company and found a low boy with an empty load headed west. That was 10k in 2000, before fuel prices jumped. He paid about 300k for the boat and it was shipped from Germany, so the expense was trivial... that weighs out much differently on a boat in the 40-50 range, as mentioned.

Given that I have a dual station, galley up in my backyard, in pretty decent shape, I'm going to explore it fully before bailing on that plan. I do need to know more about the bottom and running gear, and if I can get a price adjustment too.

I'm also sure the boat wasn't properly trimmed during our sea trial, we just had a tough time in the conditions with the swells so stacked up. I'm sure we were bow high. @2800, I still had some throttle to give but I wasn't really comfortable enough to push it, so it wasn't completely WOT.

The current owner is working on the list of items the surveyor found, good sign.

 

[Avenger]

If what you're saying about the props is correct you're going to need to put props on it to get it to run in any reasonable way. With 210 HP engines propped correctly the boat is going to be a slug to start with. If the props were de-pitched from that you'll be lucky to get it out of the hole downwind in a following sea. Forget re-tuning them. You'll probably have to go to maximum diameter which is around 22" IIRC and probably similar pitch to utilize all 320 horses. BTW, if they're really that unloaded they'll probably turn up to 3000 or even a little more before the governor stops them.

I wouldn't consider this a deal-breaker but you'll have to factor re-propping into your decision. Probably small change compared to other things, and she's going to be pretty fast when she's set up right.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Just to clarify, I don't think that being recommended by BoatUS means anything- except that by threatening to complain to BoatUS the surveyor may give him his money back for the crappy and mostly useless survey.

It's a shame he doesn't have more choices. This boat sounds like a project and a headache. I hope I am wrong.

 

[saltshaker]

Just to clarify, I don't think that being recommended by BoatUS means anything- except that by threatening to complain to BoatUS the surveyor may give him his money back for the crappy and mostly useless survey.

It's a shame he doesn't have more choices. This boat sounds like a project and a headache. I hope I am wrong.

My surveyor was by far the worse I've ever encountered. Complaining to BoatUS was useless.

 

[Mike36c]

Speaking of new props the shaft size might be an issue if running 2:1 gears and 1.5" shafts. That may be one explaination for the current undersized wheels. Something else to think about.

 

[saltshaker]

Speaking of new props the shaft size might be an issue if running 2:1 gears and 1.5" shafts. That may be one explaination for the current undersized wheels. Something else to think about.

Excellent point! If you give a good prop shop your engine specs and gear ratio, they'll tell you what size shafts and props you need. If you're a member, boatdiesel.com has a calculator you can use. If the shafts are undersized, that would be a deal breaker for me.

 

[Mike36c]

Excellent point! If you give a good prop shop your engine specs and gear ratio, they'll tell you what size shafts and props you need. If you're a member, boatdiesel.com has a calculator you can use. If the shafts are undersized, that would be a deal breaker for me.

I would even consider installing a borrowed set of props if the shafts are ok and run it hard. Who knows what's going happen when the turbos and cooling system see rated power for the first time.

 

[Boatsb]

Why try so hard to get the lipstick on the pig? If the boat is not right either but it at a price that allows you to redo it or look for something else. May not be a Hatt in the area but contrary to the beliefs of others on the website there are other quality boats available.

 

[jim rosenthal]

"My surveyor was by far the worse I've ever encountered. Complaining to BoatUS was useless."

I had a lousy survey done years ago when I bought Blue Note; the surveyor missed plenty of things that were easy to find. He was stupid and he was lazy. But by the time they were evident- not too long later- I already owned the boat. He had been recommended by BoatUS.

I called them and explained the situation to them. They sent out another surveyor, at their expense, and verified what he'd missed. Then they called him and suggested he return my survey fees. I advised them that if he would do that, I would graciously refrain from either suing him or beating his head in. I guess he saw it my way since he refunded the cost of the survey.

Now, years later, I am better informed and can look around and find my own surveyors. That is the advantage of staying in boating and in the same geographical area.

 

[bhostrawser]

Excellent point! If you give a good prop shop your engine specs and gear ratio, they'll tell you what size shafts and props you need. If you're a member, boatdiesel.com has a calculator you can use. If the shafts are undersized, that would be a deal breaker for me.

Ok, so this is a really good point to consider. I didn't measure the shafts myself, the survey says 2". And the odds of that being right are approximately 50/50. Yeah, I'm gonna run the data through boat diesel, since I have no idea if there is a good prop shop around. If the shafts are undersized, then yeah, that is probably a deal breaker for me too.

 

[saltshaker]

2" would be huge on a 36C. 1.75 would make more sense.

 

[bhostrawser]

"My surveyor was by far the worse I've ever encountered. Complaining to BoatUS was useless."

I had a lousy survey done years ago when I bought Blue Note; the surveyor missed plenty of things that were easy to find. He was stupid and he was lazy. But by the time they were evident- not too long later- I already owned the boat. He had been recommended by BoatUS.

I called them and explained the situation to them. They sent out another surveyor, at their expense, and verified what he'd missed. Then they called him and suggested he return my survey fees. I advised them that if he would do that, I would graciously refrain from either suing him or beating his head in. I guess he saw it my way since he refunded the cost of the survey.

Now, years later, I am better informed and can look around and find my own surveyors. That is the advantage of staying in boating and in the same geographical area.

The most disappointing thing about this whole surveyor malarky is that I specifically went back to this guy after he did what I considered a great job on my sloop 13 years ago. Over the weekend, while cleaning out some files, I came across that survey, and its goddamn night and day. 12 pages of info on that survey compared to 5 on this one. He went over every inch of that boat, noting the make/model/condition of everything.

And yeah, he went through ALL my ground tackle (Primary, secondary, stern), measured, and inspected, even checked out the rope/chain splices. It was really shocking to see the difference. I think what happened, is that a couple years ago, the survey co. owner, and very well known and respected surveyor Peter Minkiwitz passed. Seems like things have fallen off since then. Live and learn.

 

[bhostrawser]

2" would be huge on a 36C. 1.75 would make more sense.

I called the owner, he had zincs in his garage for the shafts, they are 1.5". He gave me the name of a prop shop he has used before, so I'll start calling around.

 

[Avenger]

1.5" is original. It MAY be possible to go to 1.75" by changine the bearings. Any bigger would require a lot of work. Chances are they're 1.5" which should be adequate with 1.5:1 gears. If that's what you actually have. You're really going to need to look at all this stuff firsthand to make an educated decision.

 

[bhostrawser]

1.5" is original. It MAY be possible to go to 1.75" by changine the bearings. Any bigger would require a lot of work. Chances are they're 1.5" which should be adequate with 1.5:1 gears. If that's what you actually have. You're really going to need to look at all this stuff firsthand to make an educated decision.

Survey says: Twin Disc 1.97:1 reduction gear

Boat Diesel says you are right about the 1.5:1 requiring 1.75", at a minimum safety factor
@ 1.97:1 requires 2" for the same safety factor. (2)

Interesting though: Boat Diesel also says that even for the orignal 210s @ 1.97:1, it would have needed 1.67", which means the factory setup was inadequate?

Owner is not going to understand/believe any of this, since he had been running without issues for several years.

 

[saltshaker]

I believe Hatteras uses a safety factor of 3. I would think 1.75" would be fine given the gears you have. Those engines are 2800RPM max right?

 

[saltshaker]

Sounds like you need to cut your losses or have a serious talk with the seller regarding price. You should call Tom Slane at Slane Marine. He is currently refitiing 4 36C's. He can tell you what your options are and what the cost should be to change out the shafts.

 

[bhostrawser]

I believe Hatteras uses a safety factor of 3. I would think 1.75" would be fine given the gears you have. Those engines are 2800RPM max right?

This is confusing, because according to boatdiesel.com, factory Hatteras was not even a factor of 2 with the 210s @1.97:1. Not sure what the max is, believe they are rated at 320@2800?

 

[saltshaker]

This is confusing, because according to boatdiesel.com, factory Hatteras was not even a factor of 2 with the 210s @1.97:1. Not sure what the max is, believe they are rated at 320@2800?

Talk to a good prop shop. You need to know the max rated HP and RPM, gear ratio and shaft material. Not sure what Hatteras was using back then but they should be Aquamet 22 or 19. There's a big difference in size required between different shafting so make sure you are entering the correct material. I just spoke to Tom and he said they run safety factors in the low to mid 3's, 5 is ideal but that's not easy to achieve. He said he hasn't had to change shafts on the 36C's he's repowered and has never had one break a shaft. He said you can get Aquamet 22 shafting with a torsional strength of 85,000 psi for 1.5" shafts. Standard is 65,000 but you can call and spec out higher. As always the keyway, fit and installation of the props are critical. See if the shafts have a spooned keyway as opposed to a squared off end. The old ones were squared and that is one reason for the higher safety factors. When I had my shafts made that was a big issue as that was relatively newer thinking. Don't give up just yet!

 

[Avenger]

Survey says: Twin Disc 1.97:1 reduction gear

You do see the problem with this statement, right?

Like Jack, I wouldn't give up either until all the facts are in. But you really do need to collect actual facts.