Considering 1975 36 Convertible, 3208 320's

[bhostrawser]

So I'm a newb here, please be gentle. I've tried searching the forums for all info I can find on the Series 1 36's, but I'm having trouble finding much.

I'm a sailor, on the west coast, moving up from the 10m sloop I've had for the last 15 years. I've got transatlantic experience and I've singlehanded down to central america and back, but through the years, I've managed to acquire a family. The sailboat is getting small, and I've come to realize that its time to move up to something not quite so tiny and tilty. I've done some trawlering and some sportfishing, and I've decided someting in the 35-40ft. range that I could cruise and fish would be ideal. I've always respected Hatts, and have been keeping my eye out.

There aren't many of them on the west coast, but recently one came up for sale. 1975, 36C repowered with 3208 320s in 2005. One owner for the last 28 years, an ex commercial fisherman. It is a dual-station, galley up layout, which is the one I would prefer. The boat is in pretty decent condition, it was regularly used and has good equipment. It is mostly original, with nothing fancy added, but it has a 5kw genset and updated electronics circa 2000. To my fairly trained eye, things are in the condition you would expect, mostly good, usable, but not pristine. Things like the AC don't work, the Halon? system is probably shot... I would consider those normal for that vintage.

I have a survey scheduled for next week, and a sea trial if that works out. I would like to ask, what are the known issues with this vintage, what should I check for, that type of thing. I've heard about the leaky windows, but otherwise don't know much about these boats. The asking price is around 50k, including gear, such as downriggers and pot puller. I think this is still a bit flexible depending on the survey, but with little availability on the west coast, or even of the series 1 36's anywhere, I'm having a tough time finding comparables.

Any help, thoughts, opinions would be appreciated.

 

[rsmith]

The 36 is a heavy capable offshore boat based on the original 34 hull. I ran many offshore charters in our 34 to the NE canyons which is a min 70nm trip each way. Problem is today for between 50-100k their are a lot more capable and larger Hatts available. I would say 30-35 k would be the right price if the boat fits your mission profile. I've seen a couple on ebay and thats about where they ended up.

 

[saltshaker]

The 36 is a heavy capable offshore boat based on the original 34 hull. I ran many offshore charters in our 34 to the NE canyons which is a min 70nm trip each way. Problem is today for between 50-100k their are a lot more capable and larger Hatts available. I would say 30-35 k would be the right price if the boat fits your mission profile. I've seen a couple on ebay and thats about where they ended up.

I agree except keep in mind he's on the west coast and prices are higher and selection is lower. 50K should buy you a pretty nice one, even on the west coast. I don't think non working AC is a small item. Regardless of the age of the boat, you should expect all systems to work properly or the price should be adjusted accordingly. Keep in mind a 36C can easily be shipped if the right boat is on the east coast. The shipping cost might be offset by the lower sale prices. Post some details as to her condition and deficiencies.

 

[jim rosenthal]

I agree. These are tough little boats (I've had one for over twenty years) but a boat that was used for commercial fishing may be somewhat beat up. 3208s are good engines from a reliability point of view, but they are heavy, and that isn't a lot of hp to drive this particular boat. Figure on a 18 kt cruise, maybe 22 kts WOT.

Electronics are one of the cheapest things to refit on a boat, and even if they are all shot I would not worry about them. 2000 is ancient history on electronics anyway. 2005 is a fairly recent repower for 3208s- get an engine survey, and if they pass decently, you are good to go with just routine maintenance. They probably have Twin Disc gears which will last forever if taken care of. The service access will be mediocre but bearable- these are relatively big engines in a relatively small engine room.

The fact that the AC units don't work isn't a plus- replacing them will cost you something. There were usually two of them- one for the salon and one for the forward stateroom. On most boats, the OEM AC equipment had the compressors in the engine room, and the air-handler/evaporator units in the living spaces. Copper piping connected them. Some of these are still running after many years; some will require replacing. If you want AC, you are looking at some serious money to redo these, so it would be worth finding out WHY they don't work etc. NO AC unit ever "just needs recharged" in my experience.

Other things that may bear close scrutiny:
-the decks and cockpit surrounds are cored with balsa, which rots. Sound the deck carefully. If screw holes have been drilled in the deck, assume the core underneath is likely to be rotten.

-the Hynautic steering on these boats is very reliable. However the copper tubing that connects all the components ages and may leak. Look for damage to the steering lines. All of the components can be rebuilt.

-many of these boats have had electrical system refits and add-ons. Some done well, some not so well. The basic electrical systems were very well made, but they are forty years old or older. The surveyor should look at them carefully.

-same with through-hulls. All old, unless replaced.

-tanks, with diesel, should be fine. You would have the larger tanks with this boat, 300 total, not 250 as my older one has.

-5kW genset is the minimum you would need, but it may be cooler out there than it is here. If it is in good shape, it should be adequate but not as big as you would have bought had you done it yourself.

-windows will leak. Not much to do about that.


Interesting you wanted the galley-up model. Not many of those were made. They do have more sleeping spaces, nice if you have children to tote around.

If you want to send me a PM with the listing information, I will take a look and email you back. If the boat is basically sound and the systems are in decent shape, I think you could be okay in the 35-40K$ range.

 

[bhostrawser]

Thanks guys, really appreciate your input. Yeah, isn't everything more expensive out here? Also, well, the water temp and air temps are a LOT lower. I'm up north by SF, so I could live without the AC but the heater would be important, and that is an Espar that does work. It would probably make sense for me to post the survey and see what you guys think. That happens next Thursday, so I'll post that as soon as I get it.

Thanks again,
Brent

 

[jim rosenthal]

I thought of a couple more things: the safety rail on these boats is assembled of bronze stanchion bases and stainless tubing with bronze unions. The bases are screwed to the toe rail with bronze bolts which over time decay from corrosion, making the rail unstable. I had to drill out what was left of the bolts and re-secure the rail bases with stainless bolts. (there is a metal plate laminated into the toe rail which receives the bolts) Also the samson post on the foredeck is held to the (cored!) deck with bronze bolts. That should be taken up and resecured with stainless bolts and backing plates, the original setup isn't as good as it could be. I can send you some photos but this isn't difficult.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Let us know. Incidentally, this model was a popular one- it was built from (I think) 1968 or 60 up until 1977. I think they made 190 of them or something like that. The later ones, like the one you are viewing, had bigger tanks and also fiberglass exhaust pipes glassed into the transom, which is a nice improvement. The older boats had metal exhaust flanges. They can be changed out, but it ain't cheap.

 

[saltshaker]

It's also one of the most popular Hatteras for complete refits. It's a great hull and the size is manageable. Very economical to run with the right power. Very few boats in this size range compare.

 

[Maynard Rupp]

For a few more bucks you can buy a series II 36. These boats are much bigger and more modern than the early ones. A completely different and awesome boat. Eveything is much bigger and easier to access. We have a 1986 one and love it. Some have the galley up on the entire port side of the salon. Our galley is down a few steps and to starboard under the windshield. My wife loves the galley.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Hatteras Yachts are sort of thin on the ground on the West Coast. He may not be able to find one. You are right that the interior accommodations are better on the Series II 36C. They are a lot slower and use more fuel, though.

 

[Mike36c]

While the 3208 is a nice motor it's a tight fit in a series one 36. I had V8 Cummins before I repowered and a circus performer was required to crawl around those beasts. I also had my boat shipped from Texas to Florida, it's not scary expensive but requires fly bridge removal. Personally I would shop around, right the find one with 6BTA's, negotiate, then truck it.

 

[SeaEric]

With the right trucker and the windshield removed, it is possible to truck a series I 36 with the flybridge on. I know this because I passed Jim Rosenthal's boat on I-95 one day. It was being moved to Slane's and it had the bridge in place. It's way easier to truck a taller boat when you get west of the Mississippi.

 

[rsmith]

Like Mike said, the best deal on any boat today is to find one that the seller dumped a bunch of $$ in at the top of the market and now has gone begging. I'm pretty sure the 3208 is a nonlinered "throw away block" so thats something to keep in mind. we had the 3160 predacessor to that in our 34 and scuffed a piston which scored the cylinder beyond limits totaling the block. The plus side is there are a kazillion 3208's out there so parts and short blocks are easy to come by.

 

[bhostrawser]

Hatteras Yachts are sort of thin on the ground on the West Coast. He may not be able to find one. You are right that the interior accommodations are better on the Series II 36C. They are a lot slower and use more fuel, though.

This is very true, I've been looking for a Series 2, but they are rarely available and way out of my range when they are. I did look at a 37 not long ago, but it seemed like a dog, very underpowered, and had not been used much in recent years so there were a lot of smaller issues starting to build.

 

[saltshaker]

There's a big difference between the 36C I, 36C II and the 37C. The newer boats are bigger, heavier, thirstier and slower. They take a fair amount of HP to get over the hump. They are much roomier inside and offer a much improved bridge and interior layout. Choose the one that best suits your needs. The 36C I is a great boat. I don't think you'll be disappointed and if maintained, there's always a market for them. As stated earlier they are very popular boats to refit. If this one doesn't work out, there are usually a number of refit ones out there. Inventory seems a bit low right now but that changes all the time.

 

[rmatt]

Like Mike said, the best deal on any boat today is to find one that the seller dumped a bunch of $$ in at the top of the market and now has gone begging. I'm pretty sure the 3208 is a nonlinered "throw away block" so thats something to keep in mind. we had the 3160 predacessor to that in our 34 and scuffed a piston which scored the cylinder beyond limits totaling the block. The plus side is there are a kazillion 3208's out there so parts and short blocks are easy to come by.

Correct in that the Cat 3208 is a dry sleeved (no liner) engine. It is certainly not a throw away engine. Cat makes a liner for the 3208. The block is bored to to accept the liner, liner pressed into the block and it's back to standard. May not be cheap but salvageable. Assuming the block damage is still in the parameters of the repair sleeve.

 

[bhostrawser]

I managed to get a couple basic photos. The 3208's were fresh in 2005, and only have 700 hours on them now, so I'd like to hope that while they are a tight fit, and heavy, they will be adequate for years to come. And yes, if I could find a low hour 6BTA powered one in good shape for under 50k, I'd take it! Maybe I should start looking east, since there are a lot more boats out there, but I figure its gonna be 10k to ship from coast to coast, pretty easy, plus time out there to get it all surveyed and sea trialed.

I've got a couple more pics and some basic specs to post, and survey on Thursday.

Thanks again for all the information, its a great thing to have such a helpful community.

 

[bhostrawser]

I realize engine room pics would be more informative... I'll have those later this week.

 

[bhostrawser]

Engines
Engine Brand: Caterpillar
Engine(s) Total Power: 640 HP
Engine Model: 3208T
Engine Type: Inboard
Drive Type: Direct Drive
Cruising Speed: 17 knots @ 2400 RPM
Maximum Speed: 24 knots
Year Built: 2005
Engine Hours: 700
Westerbeke Generator 5.0 KW approximately 1250 hours
Trim Tabs

Tanks
Fresh Water Tanks: 70
Fuel Tanks: 2 (150 Gallons)
Holding Tanks: 25

Electronics
Lower Station

Furuno 48 mi Array Radar
Furuno Depth Sounder Mdl FCD6000L
Furuno GPS 31
Furuno Auto Pilot
Echo Tec CTM 950 - Navigation Plotter
Di Tec Mdl 2000 Salt water Temperature
Icon VHF Mld 759 Radio
Alpine 6 CD Player
Compass

Upper Station

Furuno 48 mi Array Radar
Raymarine Plotter/Depth Sounder w/1000 watt Transducer
Furuno GPS 31
Furuno Auto Pilot
Compass

Outside Equipment/Extras
Electric windlass - may be inop

Accommodations
Entry from either the transom gate or from a side gunnels into a spacious aft cockpit.To starboard the ladder to the bridge, a fish tackle station, refrigerator/ icemaker and sink. Also to starboard is a crab-lobster pot puller. To port is either rod holder or gaff holder under the gunnel and on the cabin bulkhead are rocker lanuncher rod holders. Enter through the solid cabin door to port is a full size refrigerator/freezer and galley with microwave,stove oven and sink. To starboard is an L shaped settee( has full rod storage underneath cushions) upolstered in Leather with a hi-Lo table one has almost a 360 deg view. Forward is the lower helm station. Forward is 3 steps down to the Head and shower to port and a double bunk sleeping area to starboard. Finally, The master stateroom with a side double, completes the layout of the boat.

Salon - Galley- Cabins-Heads
Salon L shaped settee with leather and new drapes. Hi-Lo Ajustable table, seats 6 persons, Dimmable Halogen Ceiling lights. Plus Lower helm and Galley to port.

Galley: Has 3 burner princess stove with oven,Litton Microwave, Norcold full size 6.4 cubic ft capacity refigerator/freezer, single large sink. 6 gal hot water heater.

Cabins
Mid cabin open to aisle, stacked single bunks with storage under
Forward Cabin side double with storage under and lockers

Head Area
Electric head with Y valve and 20 gal holding tank
Shower stall with door
Large storage cabinet

Forward Deck hoist for dingy
Zodiac 11' Dingy
6 Hp Mercury O/B 2 stroke
Outriggers for fishing
Electrodyn Crab-Lobster trap puller
Bait tank aft rail mounted
Large cooler for fish
Espar Diesel forced air heater
Flow scan instrument to measure fuel consumption

 

[Avenger]

3208s are good engines from a reliability point of view, but they are heavy, and that isn't a lot of hp to drive this particular boat. Figure on a 18 kt cruise, maybe 22 kts WOT.

Other things that may bear close scrutiny:
-the decks and cockpit surrounds are cored with balsa, which rots. Sound the deck carefully. If screw holes have been drilled in the deck, assume the core underneath is likely to be rotten.

The speed estimate sounds low. Mine can beat those numbers and it only has 260s. Core issues are definitely something to be aware of particularly if things have been added.

While the 3208 is a nice motor it's a tight fit in a series one 36. I had V8 Cummins before I repowered and a circus performer was required to crawl around those beasts.

This is true. That is one bilge full o' iron. It will be even worse with the galley up configuration.

Like Mike said, the best deal on any boat today is to find one that the seller dumped a bunch of $$ in at the top of the market and now has gone begging. I'm pretty sure the 3208 is a nonlinered "throw away block" so thats something to keep in mind. we had the 3160 predacessor to that in our 34 and scuffed a piston which scored the cylinder beyond limits totaling the block. The plus side is there are a kazillion 3208's out there so parts and short blocks are easy to come by.

By that standard the Cummins Bs are throwaways too. BTW, all factory CAT remans are sleeved back to standard. But they're pretty tough in the moderate HP ranges and, as stated, there's tons of parts both used and aftermarket avaialble.