Sam's is your source for Hatteras and Cabo Yacht parts.

Enter a part description OR part number to search the Hatteras/Cabo parts catalog:

Email Sam's or call 1-800-678-9230 to order parts.

Chartering Rules

  • Thread starter Thread starter SKYCHENEY
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 42
  • Views Views 55,821
SKYCHENEY

SKYCHENEY

Legendary Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2005
Messages
15,546
Status
  1. OWNER - I own a Hatteras Yacht
Hatteras Model
53' EXTENDED DECKHOUSE (1983 - 1988)
So not to pick on any one member, I thought maybe those in the know could go over those rules again regarding the Chartering of One's vessel. From what I gather, this needs to be done properly so as not to get into real trouble. I don't charter nor do I have any need or desire to do so, but I would like to know the rules as it seems there is quite alot of disinformation on this going around.
 
The rules seem pretty clear to me, but I would think the key to creative circumvention is not to get overly creative. The guy with the Sea Ray who got busted recently was pretty much flaunting his illegal charter and even defied an order to cease operations. I mean how dumb can you be?

I would think crystal clear separation of ownership/operation would be key, but attitude during boarding would certainly be a factor... or so I would think. If the operator were the least bit nervous, or the documents for ownership and the charter itself weren't crystal clear, they might go to greater lengths to look up your skirt.

I don't know where that smiley in the title came from.
 
Been running charters for about 12 years, as a captain, first on a 70 footer now on an 84

Under 100GT, 6 pax or less, easy. You can charter on a simple crewed charter contract, providing crew as well as fuel and supplies. Owner can be the captain

Over 100GT, same but up to 12 pax

Problem is that except for low end sailing charters and low key event, most charterers want to bring larger groups hence the use of the Bareboat charter. Originally bareboat was meant for larger vessels, often commercial, and long term which is why some feel that when used for day charter it is a loophole even though it is legal and approved by authorities

The boat is rented bare. Means no crew, charterer needs to provide provision, fuel etc. charterer must be able to pick his crew and fire/replace the crew if needed. Owner can not be the captain, crew or even be on board. Charterer must pay crew separately under a separate contract which should be on board the boat

Big red flags for USCG:
- bareboat charters advertised all inclusive (crew, food, fuel...). Not really illegal as long as you can prove otherwise but advertising it is a red flag
- owner captaining the boat under guise of an LLC or some other ownership scheme. One may get away with it during a routine boarding but in case of an accident or violation you can be sure the USCG or US attorneys office will quickly discover ownership

Induction to the above there are many rules incl commercial PFDs, safety gear, etc which apply

We used to do a lot of day charters as well as weekly charters in the Exumas with the 70. As many as 100/120 days a year. Things have changed in the day charter market. More boats, “cheaper” clientele, more wear and tear With the Lazzara 84 we pretty much only do weekly charters in the Exumas.
 
I believe there is also a stipulation concerning the owner specifying the hiring of a particular captain/crew for a bareboat charter. "Specifying" vs suggesting may be the key there, but it seems like a gray area if the owner supplies the name(s) of such to the party chartering the boat.
 
Freeebird said:
I believe there is also a stipulation concerning the owner specifying the hiring of a particular captain/crew for a bareboat charter. "Specifying" vs suggesting may be the key there, but it seems like a gray area if the owner supplies the name(s) of such to the party chartering the boat.
Click to expand...

Yeah that s all grey. In the real world, once you hit 50’ or so the captain will need to be approved by the insurance company so it is impractical to have the charterer pick just any captain

Also from a charterer perspective, you want a crew that s familiar with the boat and its systems. Things go much more smoothly this way. I ve seen charters anchored nearby where the crew spends 20 minutes launching the tender or the jet ski, mostly because they re not familiar with the rigging and set up. 20 wasted minutes out of a 4 hour charter ...

Another thing about the charter market. Charterers want newer boats. The only way you’re going to get older boats like our old hatts busy is by lowering the rates. The obvious result is that the people paying $1500 for a day charter are not really the kind of crowd you want on your boat compared to those willing to pay $4500... and for the crew the $4500 charter will result in at least $1000 tip.

For the owner, chartering is a way of covering at least some of the expenses and since the boat is a business you get tax benefits. But if it is your own boat, you won’t get much business with a 6 pax limit...
 
What about the boat? I remember when I was on Angela's boat, there were taller railings with extra safety lines on them and the engine rooms had some special insulation. Is that mandatory to charter? What's the rule on that stuff?
 
SKYCHENEY said:
What about the boat? I remember when I was on Angela's boat, there were taller railings with extra safety lines on them and the engine rooms had some special insulation. Is that mandatory to charter? What's the rule on that stuff?
Click to expand...

That was all the result of the boat having previously been modified to obtain a COI which allowed it to carry more than six paying passengers. It's not required for uninspected vessels.
 
My boat, a 58’ MY, had a COI for 49 passengers (way too many if you ask me!). I’m friends with the previous owner who undertook that modification. He said it cost him around $200,000 for the modifications to get the certificate, just in case anyone is wondering about the cost to do that. You can tell at first glance out there what’s an inspected vessel and what’s not - the hand rails are a dead giveaway.
 
Pascal said:
More info

https://homeport.uscg.mil/Lists/Con...4&Source=/Lists/Content/DispForm.aspx?ID=1724

https://www.luxyachts.com/resources/USCG-Charter-Brochure.pdf

There is also the fine print on the reverse side of documentation certificates stating that the documentation is INVALID when operated for purpose other than solely for recreation by a non US citizen. In plain English...if you charter your US flagged boat, the captain MUST BE US CITIZEN. Not just a US resident.
Click to expand...
No offense, but what does that have to do with anything unless the plan is to save a few bucks by hiring an illegal immigrant to run a bareboat charter while paying them less than a US citizen?

"Hey, Jose, when you finish the roof, take these gringo's for a boat ride."
 
Freeebird said:
No offense, but what does that have to do with anything unless the plan is to save a few bucks by hiring an illegal immigrant to run a bareboat charter while paying them less than a US citizen?

"Hey, Jose, when you finish the roof, take these gringo's for a boat ride."
Click to expand...

Hmmm.... read his post again. Slowly.

A resident is not an illegal immigrant. A resident is someone who can live, and WORK in the US. They have a RESIDENT visa, a SS#, they pay taxes and are entitled to all the same benefits a citizen is. The only thing they can NOT do is vote, and be a Captain on a US flagged vessel. And I think be an employee of the FBI/NSA and CIA... but I'm not sure about that.

This is the heritage of marine law that dates waaaay back. At this point it makes no sense, but that happens. By comparison you do NOT need to be a US citizen to be the Captain on a US flagged airplane, either in domestic or flag (international) operations.

And I wasn't. I immigrated in 1982 from The Netherlands, legally, had my resident visa and was happily piloting an aircraft for a major US airline until ...... 9/11. Suddenly things got mighty restrictive. The company had to submit to the FAA every time a non-citizen went into a simulator for training, customs got nasty and so on and so forth. Typical knee jerk reaction but that's another story. I know the folks in the marine business saw the same, take the TWIC card for instance.

So I did the thing and me and 1000 other fine folks stood there with a little stars and stripes in our hands and recited the pledge of allegiance, well I did, and one other guy, most people mumbled something, and whopdeedoo we're a son of Uncle Sam.

Ironically at the time I had no intention of being a boat captain, now with retirement looming and a bunch of shirts with epaulettes in the closet..... you never know. I have an expired 6 pack, gonna have to renew that and may have to test Pascals theory that you can't sell a sunset cruise to 6 or less people..... I won't have to do it to make a living, but if I can make enough to fill up the tanks for my winter trek to Florida that would be pretty cool.
 
Last edited:
oscarvan said:
Hmmm.... read his post again. Slowly.

A resident is not an illegal immigrant. A resident is someone who can live, and WORK in the US. They have a RESIDENT visa, a SS#, they pay taxes and are entitled to all the same benefits a citizen is. The only thing they can NOT do is vote, and be a Captain on a US flagged vessel. And I think be an employee of the FBI/NSA and CIA... but I'm not sure about that.

This is the heritage of marine law that dates waaaay back. At this point it makes no sense, but that happens. By comparison you do NOT need to be a US citizen to be the Captain on a US flagged airplane, either in domestic or flag (international) operations.

And I wasn't. I immigrated in 1982 from The Netherlands, legally, had my resident visa and was happily piloting an aircraft for a major US airline until ...... 9/11. Suddenly things got mighty restrictive. The company had to submit to the FAA every time a non-citizen went into a simulator for training, customs got nasty and so on and so forth. Typical knee jerk reaction but that's another story. I know the folks in the marine business saw the same, take the TWIC card for instance.

So I did the thing and me and 1000 other fine folks stood there with a little stars and stripes in our hands and recited the pledge of allegiance, well I did, and one other guy, most people mumbled something, and whopdeedoo we're a son of Uncle Sam.

Ironically at the time I had no intention of being a boat captain, now with retirement looming and a bunch of shirts with epaulettes in the closet..... you never know. I have an expired 6 pack, gonna have to renew that and may have to test Pascals theory that you can't sell a sunset cruise to 6 or less people..... I won't have to do it to make a living, but if I can make enough to fill up the tanks for my winter trek to Florida that would be pretty cool.
Click to expand...
Google, "sarcasm", and get back to me.

The main point was that the point Pascal made was not really relevant to the topic at hand... or the posts that lead this particular conversation.
 
Freeebird said:
No offense, but what does that have to do with anything unless the plan is to save a few bucks by hiring an illegal immigrant to run a bareboat charter while paying them less than a US citizen?

"Hey, Jose, when you finish the roof, take these gringo's for a boat ride."
Click to expand...

It is very relevant as Bareboat charters do not require a licensed captain but whoever operates the boat must be a US citizen if the boat is Documented which is likely.

And if you own a documented boat, you can not hire a legal resident allien 6 pack captain to run it.
 
Last edited:
Pascal said:
It is very relevant as Bareboat charters do not require a licensed captain but whoever operates the boat must be a US citizen if the boat is Documented which is likely.

And if you own a documented boat, you can not hire a legal resident allien 6 pack captain to run it.
Click to expand...
And YOU can't legally hire ANYBODY to run it as the owner who is offering a bareboat charter. :p

I suppose that does bring up an interesting point, especially for owners in south Florida. If you offer your boat as a true bareboat charter, would you be required by law to rent the boat only to a US citizen?

Seriously, I think we're getting into silly territory here where citizenship issues and bareboat chartering are concerned, but it does make for interesting conversation. Has your accent ever raised any eyebrows with the Coasties? :D

Yes, I'm just messing with you.
 
Freeebird said:
And YOU can't legally hire ANYBODY to run it as the owner who is offering a bareboat charter. :p

I suppose that does bring up an interesting point, especially for owners in south Florida. If you offer your boat as a true bareboat charter, would you be required by law to rent the boat only to a US citizen?

Seriously, I think we're getting into silly territory here where citizenship issues and bareboat chartering are concerned, but it does make for interesting conversation.
Click to expand...

This thread is about chartering rules. I don’t think that the captain citizenship is silly territory as if an owner hires a non US citizen to captain the boat, even on a crewed 6 pack charter, the documentation certificate will be void and the owner exposed to fines.
 
I won’t be posting any more videos on this site. It seems to bother some people, so…….. If you want to see this video “Don’t get stopped, get legal” or any others that I refer to in the future, feel free to see them on our YouTube channel linked in my signature. (I was told I could say that) lol

USGWorkshop.webp


You've never seen me advertise our company. (Because it's not allowed) Miami Cruise Yacht Charters. We specialize in preparing and managing yacht charters for owners. Our first step is to get the owner's boat compliant with ALL law enforcement regulations. Then we market and manage the boat and its charters.


We are currently writing a book for publication were boat owners can get all the information they need in one place, to operate legally. Once it’s complete and signed off by each department, I’ll share a link so you can get a copy.


Here are a SOME of the topics I cover.
  • What’s the difference between types of “charter” and “Bareboat”?
  • What is:
1. Coast Guard Safety Inspection
2. Un-inspected Passenger Vessel
3. Inspected, Un-inspected Passenger Vessel
4. Inspected Passenger Vessel
  • Definition of “Charterer”
  • Relinquishing Ownership
  • Onboard “required publications”
  • Onboard “required documentation”
  • Onboard “required equipment”
  • Stability Certificate
  • COI
  • Types of Registration Endorsements
  • Staff (Safety essential and non-safety essential)
  • Sewage and trash out plan
  • Fire Safety Equipment and inspections
  • Personal Safety Equipment

We charge our customers for this service. That’s why I don’t share this information publicly, as we are not allowed to advertise on this site. But like I said, once the book is published, I’ll share it with this site members.
 
This thread came up in conversation at our marina. A question came up whether the same rules apply to a foreign built vessel. Say if someone owned a Nordhavn or such. I am not aware of any distinction but I thought I'd put the question out there.
 
Passages said:
This thread came up in conversation at our marina. A question came up whether the same rules apply to a foreign built vessel. Say if someone owned a Nordhavn or such. I am not aware of any distinction but I thought I'd put the question out there.
Click to expand...

Rules are basically the same except that Foreign vessels cannot get certified as "Inspected Vessel". The can be "Inspected - Uninspected Vessel" They can be used for charter and bareboat. Not sure if that was your question.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
38,156
Messages
448,757
Members
12,482
Latest member
UnaVida

Latest Posts

Trending content

Back
Top Bottom