Captain School

[Sparky1]

Here you go Pascal. Actually I just made this up as I'm a real fast typer.

 

[Pascal]

well, then you need call the USCG office where you will be filing your paperwork and discuss this issue with them. It's good practice to keep some important paperwork, like bill of sale, registration copies, etc... at least for a few years jsut in case. for instance, keeping a copy of the reg. or doc. at home/office just in case the original gets lost or damaged on the boat.

only the National Maritime Center or the local office can help you with that.

regulations are not written by schools, they can be found in CFR46. again, look at teh link I posted from the USCG NMC, you will find direct links to CFR46.

incl:


§ 10.428 Service requirements for master
of near coastal steam or motor
vessels of not more than 100 gross
tons.
(a) The minimum service required to
qualify an applicant for a license as
master of near coastal steam or motor
vessels of not more than 100 gross tons
is two years total service in the deck
department of steam or motor, sail, or
auxiliary sail vessels on ocean or near
coastal waters. Service on Great Lakes
and inland waters may substitute for
up to one year of the required service.

from http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=46&PART=10&SECTION=428&YEAR=2002&TYPE=PDF


§ 10.422 Tonnage limitations and qualifying
requirements for licenses as
master or mate of vessels of not
more than 200 gross tons.
(a) Except as noted in paragraph (e),
all licenses issued for master or mate
of vessels of not more than 200 gross
tons are issued in 50 gross ton increments
based on the applicant’s qualifying
experience. The license is limited
to the maximum tonnage on which at
least 25 percent of the required experience
was obtained, or 150 percent of the
maximum tonnage on which at least 50
percent of the service was obtained,
whichever is higher. Limitations are in
multiples of 50 gross tons using the
next higher figure when an intermediate
tonnage is calculated.
(b) The tonnage limitation on these
licenses may be raised upon completion
of:
(1) At least 45 days of additional service
on deck on a vessel of a higher tonnage
for a tonnage increase on a mate’s
license; or,
(2) At least 90 days of additional service
on deck on a vessel of a higher tonnage
for a tonnage increase on a master’s
license; or,
(3) Additional service, which, when
combined with all previously accumulated
service, will qualify the applicant
for a higher tonnage license under the
basic formula; or,
(4) Six months additional service in
the deck department on vessels within
the highest tonnage increment on the
license. In this case, the tonnage limitation
may be raised one increment.
(c) When the service is obtained on
vessels upon which licensed personnel
are not required, the OCMI must be
satisfied that the nature of this qualifying
service (i.e., size of vessel, route,
equipment, etc.) is a reasonable equivalent
to the duties performed on vessels
which are required to engage licensed
individuals.
(d) Service gained in the engineroom
on vessels of not more than 200 gross
tons may be creditable for up to 25 percent
of the deck service requirements
for mate.
(e) When the qualifying service is obtained
upon vessels of five gross tons or
less, the license will be limited to vessels
of not more than 25 gross tons.

from http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=46&PART=10&SECTION=422&YEAR=2002&TYPE=PDF

which brings me back to the accuracy of information provided by third parties.

in an earlier post i mentioned 125T license having seen that mentioned on the SeaSchool side. Well according to the CFR it doens't exist. it clearly states that all licenses under 200GT are issued in 50T increment, except the "baby" 25GT license.

bottom line, look it up in the CFR or check with the USCG office which will be checking your paperwork when you apply.

 

[Sparky1]

I don't see where the information you listed refutes what the school printed where tonnages and qualifications are concerned. It's not as though they would make this up. Seems to me it's much the same as inland vs international ROR where they use different verbage to say the same thing. Seems the USCG shares a lot in common with the IRS in that you have to read though and interpret 100 pages of legal BS to get to come up with a simple conclusion.

Again, I'll see if I can get to the class early to work on clarifying some of these issues where verification and tonnage is concerned. I don't want to take time away from others in the class by asking tons of questions which won't apply to anyone else there. That's why I've tried to learn as much as I can here.

 

[Pascal]

"I don't see where the information you listed refutes what the school printed where tonnages and qualifications are concerned"

do you see anything in the regs i posted which tells you that you need to get your off shore time on boats of a certain tonnage? this is the question you were asking:

"but that doesn't change the requirement for 180 days offshore over 50GT or the 360 days offshore over 34GT."

you need the time on boats over 34GT for a 100GT license, but you do not need to have your offshore time on boats over 34GT for a near coastal license.

Say you can document a minimum of:
-360 days over 34GT and
-360 days near coastal on any size boat
you will be illegible for a near coastal 100T master

it's all spelled out in the CFR, all in just one or two pages linked above. that's not "100 pages of legal BS".

if you think that's hard to understand, good luck with the Nav rules test!

 

[Sparky1]

you need the time on boats over 34GT for a 100GT license, but you do not need to have your offshore time on boats over 34GT for a near coastal license.

Say you can document a minimum of:
-360 days over 34GT and
-360 days near coastal on any size boat
you will be illegible for a near coastal 100T master

it's all spelled out in the CFR, all in just one or two pages linked above. that's not "100 pages of legal BS".

if you think that's hard to understand, good luck with the Nav rules test!

Luck will have nothing to do with it.

You stated you need to document a minimum of 360 days over 34GT to get a 100T master. That is EXACTLY what the sheet I posted says. But you go on to say 360 days near coastal on any size boat will accomplish the same thing. That's a bit contradictory, don't you think?

 

[Sparky1]

Let's go Googling.

http://www.qualitymaritime.info/serv01.htm#100TI

 

[Sparky1]

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/checklists/master_100.pdf

Note line 2 where it mentions "appropriate tonnage".

 

[stormchaser]

wow, and y'all thought I was an argumentative PITA? At least I only argue in political threads...

 

[Pascal]

Randy

i posted that USCG checklist 10 or 15 posts ago, i guess you didn't bother reading it...

item nr 2 of the checklist does not cover near shore qualification but recency requirements. Indeed, if you time on 34GT+ boat was 10 years ago and all your recent time (within 3 years) was on small boats, you will not qualify for the 100GT Master.


"You stated you need to document a minimum of 360 days over 34GT to get a 100T master. That is EXACTLY what the sheet I posted says. But you go on to say 360 days near coastal on any size boat will accomplish the same thing. That's a bit contradictory, don't you think?"

again, you didn't read what i said!

"Say you can document a minimum of:
-360 days over 34GT and
-360 days near coastal on any size boat
you will be illegible for a near coastal 100T master"

see the "AND"? that means that if both conditions are not met, you will not be illegible for a Near Coastal 100GT Master...

it helps to read posts. jsut like you obviously didnt' read the links and suggestions on how to calculate and estimate tonnage...

and btw, the Master is for the most part an open book exam where the most important skills is finding asnwers in the CFRs. Better start practicing.

i'm done, argue with yourself.

 

[Sparky1]

Randy

i posted that USCG checklist 10 or 15 posts ago, i guess you didn't bother reading it...

item nr 2 of the checklist does not cover near shore qualification but recency requirements. Indeed, if you time on 34GT+ boat was 10 years ago and all your recent time (within 3 years) was on small boats, you will not qualify for the 100GT Master.


"You stated you need to document a minimum of 360 days over 34GT to get a 100T master. That is EXACTLY what the sheet I posted says. But you go on to say 360 days near coastal on any size boat will accomplish the same thing. That's a bit contradictory, don't you think?"

again, you didn't read what i said!

"Say you can document a minimum of:
-360 days over 34GT and
-360 days near coastal on any size boat
you will be illegible for a near coastal 100T master"

see the "AND"? that means that if both conditions are not met, you will not be illegible for a Near Coastal 100GT Master...

it helps to read posts. jsut like you obviously didnt' read the links and suggestions on how to calculate and estimate tonnage...

and btw, the Master is for the most part an open book exam where the most important skills is finding asnwers in the CFRs. Better start practicing.

i'm done, argue with yourself.

I'm not arguing, I'm discussing. You're arguing.

First, the link you posted about calculating tonnage doesn't help in respect to the fact I no longer own the boats. Perhaps there was something deep down that I missed, but it spoke of many measurements which will not be able to be calculated by simply knowing the beam, width, and height of the boat.

Second, the sheet I posted clearly shows the required 720 days with half that being required to have been in NC waters. You seem to take exception with the statement that all those NC days have to have been on a vessel over 34GT OR 180 of those 360 have to have been on a vessel over 50GT.

Granted, I can't see where it says that in the USCG requirements, but I find it hard to believe the school's standards would be higher than those of the USCG. You will note I posted a link to yet another school which says the same thing.

Again, I'll get verification/clarification on these requirements from the instructor who I am confident will be able to direct me to the USCG requirements they echo. If anything, I hope you prove me/them to be wrong as it will be much easier to come up with the hours.

 

[Sparky1]

wow, and y'all thought I was an argumentative PITA? At least I only argue in political threads...

Ah, shut up stormy. Nobody "thinks" you're a PITA.

 

[2swift]

Ah, shut up stormy. Nobody "thinks" you're a PITA.

Speak for your self!







J/K Stormy

 

[Sparky1]

Just a quick update. I asked my instructor for clarification of the requirements they list, and he said the come straight from the USCG. He said he could tell me where to find them, but we were just too busy tonight, and I didn't want to pester him about after class.

We had a guy sign up late, and the instructor is spending time with him before and after the regular class as to have him put in as much time as all the rest of us. With that, we don't have as much time for side trips as we did when we first started. Turns out he lived in Venice, FL just as I did, so we've been to a lot of the same places and boated in the same areas. He's doing a great job with this class and keeps things on the lighter side. I guess that gives us something else in common.

 

[Pascal]

That s why I said for the most part... Indeed some sections of the 100 T master are not open book but the big section on minimum equipment is open book with the VCR so you need to learn how to dig the info

 

[Sparky1]

First, it's the USCG who sets the rules about which books can be open during a test, not the school. It is up to the school to comply, but they don't make the rules. That's why they are being audited more regularly.

The only open book allowed during the test is the Lights List & Coast Pilots. You're on your own with everything else. The only other aid that will be available is a worksheet with the forumlas for converting true to magnetic and time, distance, and speed formulas. As the instructor stated, knowing what to do with this information is far more important than memorizing the formulas.

Pascal, unless we just have a failure to communicate, your argument seems to be that offshore sea time is counted regardless of what size boat you acquired it on and it makes no difference where the 100T NC master is concerned. Common sense would dictate otherwise seeing as how there are 25T and 50T designations as well. Why would anybody want a lower tonnage rating if the requirements were the same, and why would the CG offer them?

 

[Pascal]

First, it's the USCG who sets the rules about which books can be open during a test, not the school. It is up to the school to comply, but they don't make the rules. That's why they are being audited more regularly.

The only open book allowed during the test is the Lights List & Coast Pilots. You're on your own with everything else. The only other aid that will be available is a worksheet with the forumlas for converting true to magnetic and time, distance, and speed formulas. As the instructor stated, knowing what to do with this information is far more important than memorizing the formulas.

Pascal, unless we just have a failure to communicate, your argument seems to be that offshore sea time is counted regardless of what size boat you acquired it on and it makes no difference where the 100T NC master is concerned. Common sense would dictate otherwise seeing as how there are 25T and 50T designations as well. Why would anybody want a lower tonnage rating if the requirements were the same, and why would the CG offer them?

correct, for the OUPV you only have the light list... it's for the master that you have all teh relevant CFR... a big pile of it!

i think we a failure to understand or read...

the requirements are NOT the same for 25, 50 or 100T they are are based on the size of boats you've run. I'm not going to retype the rules (see previous posts) but here are some examples...

if you have at least ...
360 days on 40GT, you will get a 100T license
180 days on 45GT you will get a 50T license
360 days on 20GT you will get a 50T license
180 days on 24GT you will get a 25T license

this is to determine the TONNAGE of your license (Master)

now, to determine whether you get an INLAND or NEAR COASTAL license (OUPV or Master), they look at how many days you have beyond the boundary lines regardless of what boat size that offshore time was done on.

if you think tonnage applies to determine INLAND / NEAR COASTAL , post the CFR... The CFR i posted clearly shows that tonnage is irrelevant to I / NC

 

[Sparky1]

correct, for the OUPV you only have the light list... it's for the master that you have all teh relevant CFR... a big pile of it!

i think we a failure to understand or read...

the requirements are NOT the same for 25, 50 or 100T they are are based on the size of boats you've run. I'm not going to retype the rules (see previous posts) but here are some examples...

if you have at least ...
360 days on 40GT, you will get a 100T license
180 days on 45GT you will get a 50T license
360 days on 20GT you will get a 50T license
180 days on 24GT you will get a 25T license

this is to determine the TONNAGE of your license (Master)

now, to determine whether you get an INLAND or NEAR COASTAL license (OUPV or Master), they look at how many days you have beyond the boundary lines regardless of what boat size that offshore time was done on.

if you think tonnage applies to determine INLAND / NEAR COASTAL , post the CFR... The CFR i posted clearly shows that tonnage is irrelevant to I / NC

We're working on the OUPV information now, so the instructor hasn't filled us in on what we'll be getting into with the Master upgrage. As for the tonnage/qualification info you posted above, isn't that what I posted before and you disagreed with?

I'm really not trying to argue (this time ), I'm just trying to make sure I undstand all this crap.

Here you go Pascal. Actually I just made this up as I'm a real fast typer.

 

[Pascal]

you said...

"Pascal, unless we just have a failure to communicate, your argument seems to be that offshore sea time is counted regardless of what size boat you acquired it on."

this is exactly what i've been trying to explain and this is what that flyer states. so i guess, as usual, you're arguing with yourself. have fun.

 

[Freeebird]

We give up.

 

[dreamweaver66]

Once I got my Captains License I started working for Tow Boat US here on the Potomac River. I run out of National Harbor and Smallwood State Park on the weekends.