Boat Market

[thoward]

Ok guys just fishing..... if one were to say put up a 60C 1979 era that could use a little tlc but noting major what would be the interest? Have I purchased a boat like Randy that is out of reach for the majority? I bought this boat 6 years before "the plan" but couldn't walk away, what would happen if I had too? Again, I am just fishin..........

Ginger

 

[Boss Lady]

Ok guys just fishing..... if one were to say put up a 60C 1979 era that could use a little tlc but noting major what would be the interest? Have I purchased a boat like Randy that is out of reach for the majority? I bought this boat 6 years before "the plan" but couldn't walk away, what would happen if I had too? Again, I am just fishin..........

Ginger

Send pictures.. and of the boat too! LOL

 

[Freebird]

Ok guys just fishing..... if one were to say put up a 60C 1979 era that could use a little tlc but noting major what would be the interest? Have I purchased a boat like Randy that is out of reach for the majority? I bought this boat 6 years before "the plan" but couldn't walk away, what would happen if I had too? Again, I am just fishin..........

Ginger

Hi again Ginger,

It would seem my response of "yep" to the question you asked as it related to my statement regarding the sale of my 58 was deemed inappropriate as an answer to your question "Have I purchased a boat like Randy that is out of reach for the majority". I felt this question was directed at me, and I answered it accordingly.

I have since researched a previous conversation initiated by the zapper of my response which seems to indicate that boats such as ours have taken a substantial hit in recent months. He was fortunate enough to have sold his Hatteras at a time when the market netted him more money, 30% as I recall, than would be the case in today's market. This person is rarely wrong in his views, and I thought I was agreeing with his previous statement as it relates to the larger Hatteras yachts which you and I own.

In short, now is not a good time to be a seller. Now is a good time to be a buyer. Perhaps we would both be better off to trade our respective boats in order to receive the best of both worlds at this particular point in time. Could I interest you in a trade for a smaller Hatteras yacht? Perhaps you have grown tired of your husband smelling of fish only then being forced to cook the same. My 58 is much larger than your 60 as to interior volume, and I have grown to like fishing as a result of meeting members of this forum who enjoy that also.

Now that I am writing my fourth paragraph which also seems to be the source of aggravation for some, it would appear the simple answer of "yep" was all that was needed after all. Perhaps the proper use of the English language and the word "yes" would have avoided this misunderstanding.

I trust this explanation will not only provide an answer to your question, but will also prove that I do know a thing or two about Hatteras yachts and the boat business of which I have been a part for some 20 years now.

Perhaps I should have talked about the economy and how it relates to the safe business I have owned and operated for 26 years this August, but I am trying to keep my discussions or "ramblings" to the subject at hand. I am still a relative newcomer to this forum, but I believe I am finally starting to figure this thing out.

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Hi again Ginger,

It would seem my response of "yep" to the question you asked as it related to my statement regarding the sale of my 58 was deemed inappropriate as an answer to your question "Have I purchased a boat like Randy that is out of reach for the majority". I felt this question was directed at me, and I answered it accordingly.

I have since researched a previous conversation initiated by the zapper of my response which seems to indicate that boats such as ours have taken a substantial hit in recent months. He was fortunate enough to have sold his Hatteras at a time when the market netted him more money, 30% as I recall, than would be the case in today's market. This person is rarely wrong in his views, and I thought I was agreeing with his previous statement as it relates to the larger Hatteras yachts which you and I own.

In short, now is not a good time to be a seller. Now is a good time to be a buyer. Perhaps we would both be better off to trade our respective boats in order to receive the best of both worlds at this particular point in time. Could I interest you in a trade for a smaller Hatteras yacht? Perhaps you have grown tired of your husband smelling of fish only then being forced to cook the same. My 58 is much larger than your 60 as to interior volume, and I have grown to like fishing as a result of meeting members of this forum who enjoy that also.

Now that I am writing my fourth paragraph which also seems to be the source of aggravation for some, it would appear the simple answer of "yep" was all that was needed after all. Perhaps the proper use of the English language and the word "yes" would have avoided this misunderstanding.

I trust this explanation will not only provide an answer to your question, but will also prove that I do know a thing or two about Hatteras yachts and the boat business of which I have been a part for some 20 years now.

Perhaps I should have talked about the economy and how it relates to the safe business I have owned and operated for 26 years this August, but I am trying to keep my discussions or "ramblings" to the subject at hand. I am still a relative newcomer to this forum, but I believe I am finally starting to figure this thing out.

Holy Crap Batman-- S A C I I would ya'll ?? That aint saki neither. I know youve got a massa's degree in barbequeing, shootin' revenoors, and safe makin' but c'mon Forrest, ya gotta play ball too. I'll cutchall a check fer 30,000 right now for the freeturd and commence swappin' parts as soon as Ya'll kin idler up the river to the land of the free and the home of the brave. yachtsman gomer
SACII =stuff a cork inter it LOL ws

 

[thoward]

I was driving around Daytona today and thought of another reason for the slump in the boat market. Motorcycles! I would be willing to bet because they are the in thing it has drawn a large # of folks from boating. Only so much disposable income and da#$ are those bikes expensive.....

 

[eclipsarkanna]

Sorry on your theory about motorcycles impacting the boat market. I sold two Harleys 6 months ago for my "boat fund". One a brand new 100th Ann. (never used) and the other a 95th Ann Sportster 1200 - I got enough money from the sale of not one but 2 harleys to pay for 1/2 tank of fuel on a 53 Hatt. I really don't think that the motorcyle market (which is also tanking by the way) has anything to do with the large Yacht pricing downturn. Interesting theory but motorcycles are really REALLY inexpensive compared to boating. If I wasn't searching for a live-aboard (still cheaper than me building even a comparable sized cottage on my retirement lot), I couldn't remotely begin to afford a Hatteras of any size. And I see myself square in the middle of the middle class.

 

[ADaily3224]

Boating and the Economy:

I guess my outlook of boat prices and the economy is different. I'm in the Automobile business, that doesn't mean I'm the devil, we do provide goods and services. Our profit as a percentage of gross dollars are historically one of the lowest of any business. But that's not what I want to talk about. There's a lot of finger pointing and blaming going on, lots of opinions, conjecture, hand ringing. I see things completely differently, and let me preface this by providing a little background. Our business is in Western NY, basically a hard working blue collar community that is slowly but surely re-inventing itself. We have a skilled work force, albeit an ageing one, great natural resources, water, power, natural gas, and horrible winters. The weather is certainly an issue here. Our population has been declining over the past 20 years, although it has now stabilized and there are signs of growth. Our major industry is Automotive, the UAW is the number one employer followed by education, and medical. A quick side note on the medical, we are on the Canadian border, they have socialized medicine, need I say more. Formally business was led by, Steel, Grain, Shipping, Automotive.
What I am seeing is the inability of our younger people to engage in hard work. Don't shoot me on this. We employ 375 people, mostly young, I would say the average age of our staff is 30, but we have many in their early 20's and very few 50 or over, except me. The younger people just don't want to work, there is nothing left of the work ethic that I grew up with. I know that's a huge generalization, I have at least 15 positions I would like to fill and I can't find anyone who wants to work. When we interview and talk about hours and commitment, the perspective employee wants to know about vacations and benefits. We provide both, and in a very generous manner, 401K, medical, sick days, education, tool allowances, you name it. Our average sales person is 25 years old, can earn at a minimum of $50,000 to as much as $120,000, has to work 45 hours a week, two evenings, three Saturdays a month, but only 5 days a week, and has a full benefit package. For the life of me I can't get anyone to do it. We have an excellent reputation in our area, have been in business since 1969, have all new facilities, and 11 franchises. What's the deal, the deal is anyone under 30 that we interview thinks the world owes them a living. So, as I see it our biggest problem is our youth. In talking with other business managers, everyone is complaining about the same thing. These kids are being processed through expensive universities and no one is telling them "by the way it takes hard work". I am intrigued by statements in the media condemning companies for moving their business to foreign countries because of cheaper labor. I think they are moving because no one wants to work. They can't get people to do the work, and if they could the wages that certain factions are suggesting are obscene. So, that's what I think the problem is.
As far as boating in Western NY, it's excellent. We have no problem with slip availability, marina customer treatment, fuel prices, ability to get things done and at a fair price, places to go, it's all here but we do have a short boating season. It doesn't seem to stop people, Western New Yorkers really like their summer sports. It's funny, we have one of the largest Independent Sea Ray dealers, we used to have one of the largest Chris Craft dealers, and I think we have the number one Harley Davidson Dealer. As a percentage of total sales sports cars and convertibles rank very high here. Boat prices remain stable, it's a simple formula, if you have a nice, clean, well maintained boat, it sells for a strong price right away. If you don't, well you know the rest of the story. One thing I am noticing is an influx of southerners coming here for the summer, it's a pretty good idea if you ask me, and the locals love it. So, that's my opinion, based purely on my personal experience. I do not work for the department of economic development but my best friend does. He's trying to find a nice 48 Foot Hatteras LRC, check the prices on those if you think the market is soft!
Tony D

 

[Freebird]

Sorry on your theory about motorcycles impacting the boat market. I sold two Harleys 6 months ago for my "boat fund". One a brand new 100th Ann. (never used) and the other a 95th Ann Sportster 1200 - I got enough money from the sale of not one but 2 harleys to pay for 1/2 tank of fuel on a 53 Hatt. I really don't think that the motorcyle market (which is also tanking by the way) has anything to do with the large Yacht pricing downturn. Interesting theory but motorcycles are really REALLY inexpensive compared to boating. If I wasn't searching for a live-aboard (still cheaper than me building even a comparable sized cottage on my retirement lot), I couldn't remotely begin to afford a Hatteras of any size. And I see myself square in the middle of the middle class.

Well since you've already taken this thread a little off course with no fanfare, I felt the need to perpetuate it a little.

Sounds like you may be eligible to join an elite bunch of "jesters" on here who have been there, done that. Heck, you may even reach ungerground status before too long. I too parted with a 100th Anniversary Harley V-Rod, 100th Anniversary Ford Harley Edition pick up, and a custom made trailer that matched both. I sold these toys after very limited use because my little choo choo went "off-topic" for a couple of years.

You made mention of being interested in my 58TC which I am reluctantly placing on the aforementioned boat market (see, this is okay). You may also have noted I am going to sell my 2005 Harley Screamin' Eagle V-Rod. Maybe we can help each other in more ways than two!

Oh yeah, there may be a problem. Seems me and the misses had a little heart to heart among other things yesterday and last night. You may want to move quickly if you want that 58, then again, I may just give you the damn thing in a week or so and call it even!

 

[Freebird]

Holy Crap Batman-- S A C I I would ya'll ?? That aint saki neither. I know youve got a massa's degree in barbequeing, shootin' revenoors, and safe makin' but c'mon Forrest, ya gotta play ball too. I'll cutchall a check fer 30,000 right now for the freeturd and commence swappin' parts as soon as Ya'll kin idler up the river to the land of the free and the home of the brave. yachtsman gomer
SACII =stuff a cork inter it LOL ws

Mamma said never talk to strangers, especially those who is stranger than we wuz.

I may consider the sub plus $30k iffin you wanna trade. Otherwise, a floating single engine condo in Florida is more better than a headless and mattressly challenged beached submarine in Missississssipppeee.

You can keep the periscope if it's a deal breaker.

 

[Genesis]

I hear 'ya on the work ethic problem.

I got out of the "employing people" business 10 years ago, but I had a horrible problem getting people to just put in an honest 40 hours, say much less do anything more.

You'd think that people would take all the time and a half - or double time - they could get. I know I would, and did when I was younger. But nope.

If that problem doesn't get solved, we are in big trouble........ and other than some REAL hard times, where you live on a street for a while, I don't know how to fix it.

 

[Freebird]

I hear 'ya on the work ethic problem.

I got out of the "employing people" business 10 years ago, but I had a horrible problem getting people to just put in an honest 40 hours, say much less do anything more.

You'd think that people would take all the time and a half - or double time - they could get. I know I would, and did when I was younger. But nope.

If that problem doesn't get solved, we are in big trouble........ and other than some REAL hard times, where you live on a street for a while, I don't know how to fix it.

I have run my business as a one man band for all but two of my 25 years in business. I am constantly amazed by the lack of work ethic I see on a daily basis, especially in the marine industry. These folks, for the most part, simply do not give a damn.

I have employed only two people on a full-time basis since I started my business in 1981. One was too stupid to do me any good and actually lost me money. The second was smart enough to figure out a way to steal from me and eventually ended up being a competitor for the next 15 years or so until being forced out of business by yet to be paid vendors who are now holding the bag after filing a lawsuit only to find these folks lied about their financial status when they applied for credit. I came to the conclusion I would follow the old saying "If you want it done right, do it yourself". Many of you have adopted the same view when it comes to working on your boats.

Oh yeah, the second employee mentioned was my mother and her boyfriend who snooped around while I was gone only to "discover" the safe business! Paging Jerry Springer!

Ain't love grand?

 

[eclipsarkanna]

Freebird:

I sent you an email to your email site regarding the 58TC. I tried not to sidetrack the discussion re: harleys and was making a comment made by the fellow that felt the motorcycle market was contributing to the decline of the big boat market. As a footnote and not to perpetuate any further motorcycle discussion, my 100th Annie was a Dyna Superglide - the Buell V-rod is some bike for sure!

 

[Boss Lady]

I think there are many factors affecting the boat market. The biggest one is that the party is over. We have had a huge run up in real estate and many people have taken equity out of their houses and some are starting to see the hand writing on the wall and the boat market as well as the housing market have record inventories. Be prepared to sit on both or take a bath to get rid of it. I bought a Fountain 38 TE at the right time, and at market price it is still commanding $40-$50K more than I paid for it. I had boat dealer who used to call me about once a month trying to buy it, he no longer calls. This situation has never occurred in my lifetime on a boat. But we do live in some crazy times. I think this is due to the run up of boat prices at the same time that houses went crazy.

Here is a blog on the housing situation I like; http://florida-paradiselost.blogspot.com/

 

[Freebird]

I was driving around Daytona today and thought of another reason for the slump in the boat market. Motorcycles! I would be willing to bet because they are the in thing it has drawn a large # of folks from boating. Only so much disposable income and da#$ are those bikes expensive.....

I have to tell you, I do get the same feeling of freedom on my Harley as I do on a boat. Right up until the time I see a Town Car headed at me with no head above the steering wheel!

I've got right at $30K in my Hog, but it gets about 45 mpg. It is certainly no substitute for a boat, but you may not be that far off on you reasoning.

BTW tell Ginger I'll throw in the Hog if you guys want to trade boats!

Oh yeah, a V-rod is no Buell, it's a Porsche!!!

 

[thoward]

We live in an area with some of the niceest lakes in Florida. The number of boats on the lakes are down too. That is why I wonder if people are in to other trendy hobbies like motorcycles or karting.

I see lots of flats boats and I know lots of people with smaller CCs but the interest in big boats is not there. I am thinking outloud so bear with me....With all the coastal development both here and in the Bahamas I wonder if people are not opting for a mid size CC and staying at a resort. The mid size CC can get you there at 40+ knots and you stay in the hotel for what it costs to dock the boat. In the end you have less upkeep, the cost of monthly slippage is less and you can get there faster.

I am sure economics factors in to it but the time factor does as well. Ginger and I did not understand just how much time a boat like ours would take to maintain. Factor in the crappy winter seas and we have hardly used the boat in the past 4 months .

Freerangebird, no way, no how would you get me back on a bike with all the old non seeing, non hearing, mentally challanged yankees that cant dirve. That goes for the tourists too! I think if we were going to get rid of the 60'er we would get something in the 30'CC range. Hopefully the weather will turn around and we can remember why we got the boat in the first place....Oh and on the 58', why in the world would someone want a MY? SFs have big decks, lots of room and you can fish off them too .

 

[Genesis]

There is something to this.

I looked at taking Gigabite over to the Beau Rivage in Biloxi a few years ago. They wanted more for me to dock it there as a transient (so we could go play!) than it would cost to get a hotel room in the area!

Uh, no.

That sort of thing kills my desire to cruise REAL fast.

 

[eclipsarkanna]

Chris:

You are 100% correct on the real estate market. Although I am a pending boat buyer (and happy in a buyer's market) I am a seller in the Toronto real estate market on a large duplex and I am in shock at the prices. I am going to get LESS than I paid for it 3 years ago and am going to take a huge bath financially on that building. I have been in investment real estate (as a side line for my retirement for over 33 years) and its a major wake-up call. I was going to sell both but I can only afford to take a huge bath on one. So I know what you say about real estate and it is no doubt impacting the boat market. Had I been told by my realtor last month that my selling price would be what was expected (and not greedy by any stretch) then I wouldn't be waiting for the bottom in the boat market and would happily write a cheque at YW pricing. Now I expect reality in the large boat sale pricing the same way I have to face reality (and a bath - I will actually lose over $100,000 on a property in a high end part of Toronto that has been owned for 3 years and should have brought a $250,000 profit - that hurts and so boat owners are also going to "hurt").

Bill

 

[Freebird]

Freerangebird, no way, no how would you get me back on a bike with all the old non seeing, non hearing, mentally challanged yankees that cant dirve. That goes for the tourists too! I think if we were going to get rid of the 60'er we would get something in the 30'CC range. Hopefully the weather will turn around and we can remember why we got the boat in the first place....Oh and on the 58', why in the world would someone want a MY? SFs have big decks, lots of room and you can fish off them too.

Hell son, riding a motorcycle in Florida without a helmet while dodging Town Cars driven by geographically challenged blue haired snowbirds is better than any slalom course I've ever tried to ski on! It makes you appreciate the massive brakes and all the horses that Screamin' Eagle packs!

I have to tell you, if it were not for my desire to liveaboard a boat, a MY would not be my cup of tea, coffee, vodka... whatever. I do like convertibles and appreciate their versatility. At a minimum I can see a cockpit in my future. Nope, don't even go there!

I used to be a die hard go fast boater. I could see myself becoming one again as I can trailer one hell of a big go fast to wherever I want to cruise. No need for a marina when your boat is on a trailer.

As has been pointed out, I could get there faster, cheaper, and I can stay where I am going for less money as well, even if I go the hotel route. Those things can have a generator and AC for those boating "moments" many of us enjoy. You can write those off as second homes as well. Hell, for that matter, some of the best boat rides I've ever been on were on my boat while it was still on the trailer!

Looks like I could be looking for trades on my Hatts for a 40'+ go fast! Maybe a big Reggie Craft or one of those big Wellcrafts which I just forgot the name of. Nothing quite like launching off a wave at 90mph!

 

[Wild Bill]

And after a few of those 90 mph wave launches, they will be calling you decreped, cantankerous, arthriticBIRD. Then you'll be looking for that soft, slow, comfortable ride (I'm talking about boats here).

 

[Freebird]

Nah, after just one wake launch, I'll still just be Freebird. Just flying a little faster and higher, that's all!

It's those landings you have to watch out for!