Been lurking a while here, now made an offer on an old Hatt

[Bernd1972]

Hello all, I guess after reading here for a while it´s time to introduce myself. My name is Bernd, I´m from Germany and just sold my last boat, a 65ft. wooden classic. Now I just made my first visit to an older Hatteras 58YF and I made an offer for it.

However, there are, of course, a good number of details that nee attention or replacement. For instance the boat was repowered some time ago with, from my point of view, a pair of really powerful, more recent engingines that are certainly more desireable than the old Detroits.
However, that lead to the funny fact that the boat is now 24V for the engines, for some weird preference of the now selling owner the hotel load is 12V and the fresh water pump and heads are still original Galley maid stuff at 32V which are now operated on 36V since over here in Europe 8V batteries are rather exotic stuff.

Some windows are leaking and some electrical solutions are requesting for qualified attention.
Besides that I´ll certainly find a good number of other details that will have to be taken care of. If every bit would be done by a yard that project might be beyond reason, but I´ve been in the boat business for 17 years now and am qualified to do most of the jobs myself.

Am I crazy to venture into such a project? I hope not and I believe the boat is well worth the required love and care.

However, apart from that and some dull paint on the superstructure the boat is pretty nice and I guess it´ll be my next boat and project.

 

[wpc691]

Wilkommen an bord, Bernd, und viel Glück! You’ll find lots of very knowledgeable help here.

 

[longhrnfan]

Hello all, I guess after reading here for a while it´s time to introduce myself. My name is Bernd, I´m from Germany and just sold my last boat, a 65ft. wooden classic. Now I just made my first visit to an older Hatteras 58YF and I made an offer for it.

However, there are, of course, a good number of details that nee attention or replacement. For instance the boat was repowered some time ago with, from my point of view, a pair of really powerful, more recent engingines that are certainly more desireable than the old Detroits.
However, that lead to the funny fact that the boat is now 24V for the engines, for some weird preference of the now selling owner the hotel load is 12V and the fresh water pump and heads are still original Galley maid stuff at 32V which are now operated on 36V since over here in Europe 8V batteries are rather exotic stuff.

Some windows are leaking and some electrical solutions are requesting for qualified attention.
Besides that I´ll certainly find a good number of other details that will have to be taken care of. If every bit would be done by a yard that project might be beyon reason, but I´ve been in the boat business for 17 years now and am qualified to do most of the jobs myself.

Am I crazy to venture into such a project? I hope not and I believe the boat is well worth the required love and care.

However, apart from that and some dull paint on the superstructure the boat is pretty nice and I guess it´ll be my next boat and project.

Lets see some photos!

 

[oscarvan]

Gruss Gott Bernd. Is it crazy to put more money than it will ever be worth in a MB W100 (600) ? Yes, but it's a lot of fun to drive and that is priceless. These boats were built well and have a level of character that is not for sale otherwise. It's worth it in enjoyment to do them up, and gründlich at that..... Have fun with it!

And that's my story and I am sticking to it!

 

[Bernd1972]

Thanks to everybody here for that nice welcome.

The boat I´m most probably going to buy (if nothing serious fails during the sea trial which is still to happen) is 45 years old now, looks structurally sound, but has lots of minor things that´ll need attention. Pretty questionable electrics that have been frankensteined with dubious home depot and self-built parts, but unspoiled interiour except for one panel in the salon that has been ruined with lots of screw holes, cables through it and other weird stuff.

The engines are certainly something to be happy with, a pair of MAN 8-cylinders with about 650 bhp each and only 1200 hours on them. Real beasts, even compared to the original Detroit 8-71 Ti (even though they´re aboout the same weight).
The boat is stabilized, unfortunatelly with a system from a dutch manufacturer who ran out of business about a decade ago and spares for their electronics are no longer availeable.
Got three autopilot systems of which 2 are functional (one aging Furuno and one recent Raymarine)
Bathrooms are candidates for a refurbishment, but the galley is excellent except for upholstry.
However, there are so many "little" and not so little things that need attention, some urgently like the hose clamps of the exhaust piping (not good on a boat that partially floats on it´s exhaust sytem), some rather unimportant or mainly cosmetical.

But once done it´ll be a nice vessel. I am just a little concernend about travel resttrictions during the upcoming month over here in Europe due to that nasty Covid-story...

 

[jim rosenthal]

All of our boats are old at this point, some older than others. I'm not sure Hatteras expected them to be around forty or fifty years along... some of the systems age better than others.

If you buy the boat, get organized, work from the keel up with safety first and then mechanicals and last of all appearances. Good luck with it all, and if you buy the boat, welcome to the asylum.

 

[Bernd1972]

Allready started sourcing stuff for some minor refit work. By the way, has anybody here an opinion about non-Detroit engines on old Hatts?
MAN D2848 here, 680hp each 1250 hours so far and much stronger shafts and slightly bigger props... Same weight as the detroits though.

 

[Pascal]

Welcome

Biggest issue with MANs is maintenance and service cost. Usually much higher than MTUs or Cats. Have the engines surveyed carefully along with oil analysis.

The butchered electrical system is a concern. This is where most boat fires start. I can’t understand why anyone would convert the house side down to 12v instead of 24v. If they kept the original wiring, 32 to 12v is a big step down which the wiring may not be able to safely handle.

Electrical work can get VERY expensive when contracted to a yard...

 

[krush]

Maybe MAN parts and mechanics are cheaper in Germany?

Where do you boat, on the rivers or on the Baltic?

 

[jim rosenthal]

What Krush said... some of the cost differential between MANs and Caterpillars or Cummins might be due to the fact that all that stuff has to be shipped over here.....

In any case, more than likely you'll have the fastest one of that model. Wish you many years of enjoyment with her.

 

[Bernd1972]

Thanks for your thoughts. Indeed the spare parts prices for MAN engines are quite normal here as these MAN engines are also very common mid-sized industrial engines over here in Europe. For some reason MTU, which is Mercedes by the way, tends to be more expensive over here.

I don´t think that this Hatt will be one of the fastest of its kind as the enginess are slightly downrated I guess. Also the KoopNautic stabilizers add some drag.
However, I won´t expect to get considerably more than 20 kts out of that one which is ridiculously fast for that kind of boat anyway. Cruising with 8kts /850rpm or 12kts/1300rpm, occasionally going moderately fast with 15-16kts/1700-1900rpm just to prevent the turbos from becoming coal mines will do the trick for me.

Pascal: Actually the electrics are messy, but that´s due to too many different currents for my taste. The water stuff and toilets, unfortunatelly also the oversized MUIR horizontal windlass are still the 32V stuff running off a 36V battery group. That´s the only electric group with high ampere loads except for the bowthrusters. I´d like to get rid of that 36V cirquits and rededicate the batteries as a second 12V group.

There´s a beautiful multivoltage fridge/freezer combination (230V/12V) with stainess steel inside and external compressor in the genset room below the galley. Illumination is on 12V LED lights, navigation and autopilot is 12V, also the bowthriusters (yes, for whatever reason it got two bowthrusters!).

The engines are 24V with additional really big alternators for 12V and 36V (which asks for a Victron Quattro to reduce genset use while under way) and then there is there is the old air condition stuff running on 110V from a converter off the typical european 230V/50Hz electrics that are also delivered by the 17kW ONAN genset.

So too many different voltages and too many battery groups here for my taste. I firmly believe that the electrical system needs a diet and a good cleanup. Also the old converter for 110V 220V with voltage stabilizer needs to go as it´s pretty useless over here. Less complex electrics with neat and clean installation will be my preference. Fortunatelly I am qualified to do that nonsense myself.

I guess many things happen when a boat is with the same owner for a very long time without "social controll" by buyers and surveyors. Owners develope habits to do things in a way that somehow works. This boat has been within the same owner family for 4 decades! And while the senior spent enormous money on modernisations and upgrades (the MAN engines and new shafts/props, excellent "new" galley, perhaps 15 years old now and still like new) the junior (who is certainly no yongster anymore by now) has spent quite some on gadgets while neglecting things like windows or cleaning up the electrical systems. As a result the boat now has 3 autopilot units installed of which 1 is not working. I do believe in redundancy, but having 2 autopilot pumps installed parallel in the hydraulics is asking for unccesary leaks. The boat has a FLIR cam, but no holding tanks so far. That much about gadgets...

However, other than a few things I´d call chaotic it is in overall good condition.So, as you see, plenty of "minor" projects to take care of.

When I get deeper into that stuff I might have one or two typical US Galley Maid components I can live without. (might become for sale here)

My intention is to use the boat in the mediterranean (and have it licensed for charter business after I got all important things cleaned up) as it would be a shame to use such a fine sea boat just on inland waterways.

 

[Bernd1972]

Allright, bought that beast. All unknown (but suspected) negative aspect with the boat during the sea trial were a dead radar antenna (3 years old Raymarine) and a blown aftercooler which the old owner took care of.
Other than that the boat was really nice, not to say impressive during the seatrial. We did 21kts with the engine rated at 480hp and quite huge stabilizers (continous heavy duty rating for the eingines),might be tempted to adjust the injection timing a little and open them up to M3 rating to get 540hp out of them. The full 680 hp would be completely nonsense as the economic sweet spot of the engines would go up in the rpm range to about 1600 and the sweet spot would become considerably narrower from what I read in the graphs.
The 58 Yf is allready a beast at 21 kts!
Anotheraspect I had to find out is that my girlfriend considered the boat somewhat noisy. Allright, the engines barking at idle sounded like angry Rottweil dogs. I have to agree to that, but i really liked that sound. Is that some kind of macho thing?
The boat currently is, and will be in the adriatic sea/mediterranean and I intend to make it a part time business for charter in Croatia. Beautiful coasts and good food. And it´s within reasonable driving range for me if i have to go down to the boat for a few weeks to do some work.
Just to bring the boat closer to my fantasy of it step by step. Exactly my kind of holiday...

 

[oscarvan]

Is that some kind of macho thing?

Who cares? I should and I do..... somewhat.

We are probably the last generation that gets to burn fossil fuel in noisy engines with reckless abandon and I am enjoying every minute of it........

(Not meant to start a political discussion...........)

 

[dar636]

Welcome Bernd, you picked a favorite boat of mine and found the right resource for Hatteras details, congratulations. We would love to see some pictures, and everyone here probably turns over the helm to the missus while underway long enough to stand in the cockpit and soak up the roar.

Perfectly normal.

 

[Bernd1972]

Boat is paid and I´ll be down at the boat next week so I guess i can dare to show a few first pics.

Helm station is pretty chaotic, 3 functional outopilot units of which two will blow the fuse when made to work since there are 2 electric helm pumps for them and the one used by both older units seems to be stuck, blocked or removed/blocked from the active steering pipes by shutoff valves. I´ll have to investigate...

 

[JuiceClark]

Boat is paid and I´ll be down at the boat next week so I guess i can dare to show a few first pics.

Helm station is pretty chaotic, 3 functional outopilot units of which two will blow the fuse when made to work since there are 2 electric helm pumps for them and the one used by both older units seems to be stuck, blocked or removed/blocked from the active steering pipes by shutoff valves. I´ll have to investigate...

Congratulations - it's such a classic beauty. You did well. I'd love to bounce around the Med on just that kind of boat one day!

The autopilot situation sounds entirely typical. Previous owners added things instead of replacing them. They thought they were being redundant, but instead made everything unreliable.
You know what to do: take your time, do one project at a time and do it correctly. Rip-out all the clutter and replace it with one top-of-the-line machine.

 

[Bernd1972]

No Detroits, sorry...

 

[oscarvan]

Looks very nice.....

 

[Bernd1972]

Congratulations - it's such a classic beauty. You did well. I'd love to bounce around the Med on just that kind of boat one day!

The autopilot situation sounds entirely typical. Previous owners added things instead of replacing them. They thought they were being redundant, but instead made everything unreliable.
You know what to do: take your time, do one project at a time and do it correctly. Rip-out all the clutter and replace it with one top-of-the-line machine.

Thank you. Concerning the autopilot units: Well, they were all top of the line at their time except for that Raymarine thing which is the most recent unit. Both the Sharp Marine and the Furuno Autopilot are standard units for small commercial vessels while Raymarine is boatyboaty. However, I believe the Raymarine unit is the one supposed to stay. Will redesign the whole helm station though, I guess it´s adequate when the instrument panel has to be cleaned up and stripped of obsolete stuff anyway.

But I´ll begin the project with a full paintjob in Oyster White (Epifanes 2K, custom mixed color to match the original color specifications)

Next is a door in the transom, new radar arch (the old one looks just a little small and I like something with a more massive appearance. Then I´ll do a new swim platform and clean up electrics and electronics. After that it´ll be furnitures in the salon and upgrades, all step by step.

Whoa! Will I have time to cruise on that boat with all these projects?

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Looks really nice.

Do you have any performance numbers with those engines? I would like to know how fast that boat runs and what size props and shafts you have.

Thank you.