Adding Amtico

[MikeP]

In the next week or so I will be pulling up the remaining carpet in the salon and replacing it with Amtico to match the Amtico "teak/holly" that I installed in the forward portion of the salon (and most of the rest of the boat) 8 years ago. This will be a challenge because I installed all the boat's amtico in random cut fashion. So when I remove the carpet, the ends of the amtico "boards" will be in a straight line. Installing new amtico directly against the existing boards will produce a terrible looking seam across the salon just aft of the side doors. So…that can't happen.

I have to figure out how to deal with this. The best way appearance-wise would be to pull up most of the the existing boards from the point where they meet the carpet back to where the meet the previous board and laying new full length boards, which would automatically end up "random cut." The problem is the amtico is laid with two-part (epoxy) adhesive and pulling up any of the boards will probably rip sections of the sub floor up with it. I have a Dremel Fein tool clone that may be able to slice the amtico from the subfloor though it would be a slow, tedious job.

We have thought about a piece of board laying across the joint, perpendicular to the boards and then laying the new amtico against that. I have seen plenty of hardwood floors that do exactly that. It would be very easy but I don't think it would look nearly as good as continuous random cut boards because it sort of separates the space - like the Amtico/Carpet does now - which we are trying to eliminate.

If anyone has any ideas re this, I'd like to hear them!

 

[magnawake]

I would call the Amtico people and see what they think your best option would be. I'm sure they have crossed this problem many times. Your cutting tool with that flat blade might do the trick, but your still gonna need to cut between the boards also, unless they are nailed together. Either way, your right, its not going to be easy. Maybe a threshold peace of molding running across, but still not the look you want. Dang..... I bet a good floor installer could give you lots of help.

 

[Tinman]

Maybe a tile or stone flat threshold.

 

[Vincentc]

Some type of transition sounds like a lot less work. Posting a photo might generate some creative input from the forum.

 

[Bill Allen]

We had nu teak installed in the heads and galley. The guy used oak strips (tapered at both sides) to cover all the transitions between the carpet and the doorways. I think it looks very nice and breaks it up. It's been down for three years and still looks very nice. Bill

 

[bobk]

Mike, the odds are that the new Amtico will not match the old after all those years, so I would think finding a way to provide a visual break would be best. A picture or drawing of the area would help, but here are some thoughts.

Insert a wood or Amtico strip perpendicular to the existing.

Change the direction of the new. 45 or 90 degrees.

Create a diamond pattern for the remainder of the saloon. Perhaps end it with a run of fore/aft to match the existing.

Design in square or rectangular 'boxes' by carrying perpendicular strip concept around the saloon.

My preference would be to use all carpet, but we like to be barefoot.

Bobk

 

[MikeP]

The Admiral made a rather concise point re this a few minutes ago when she asked, "If this was an engine you were working on, what would you do? Would you try to figure out a way to make it work well enough to get by or would your tear it back down to whatever level was necessary to do it right?"

So I guess the Dremel/Fein tool clone will get a workout!

I'll post some pics when I get started...

 

[bobk]

The Admiral made a rather concise point re this a few minutes ago when she asked, "If this was an engine you were working on, what would you do? Would you try to figure out a way to make it work well enough to get by or would your tear it back down to whatever level was necessary to do it right?"

So I guess the Dremel/Fein tool clone will get a workout!

I'll post some pics when I get started...

Does this mean all the Amtico has to go??

Bobk

 

[SeaEric]

You could create a decorative border for the "salon" area which would require weaving the new amtico to the old only at the far ends width wise.

 

[MikeP]

The new amtico matches the old so that's not an issue. Despite my comment that I'd pull up some of the old amtico, after both of us looking at it, it appears that what might look perfectly OK is to put one of the 1/4" strips of "holly" across the current end of the teak/holly (where the carpet joins) and then proceed from there with the new Amtico. One thing that I didn't think about is that a 5x7 oriental carpet will be acting as an area rug that will cover much of the area where the old/new Amtico will meet.

 

[rob71]

As a flooring guy myself. I would lay "screw down" sheets of appropriate thickness plywood so the floor is flush.
Then cover the entire floor with the new.
Capt. Rob

 

[jim rosenthal]

Maybe a big panel in the Amtico where the carpet is now? Like with some kind of patterned border in it so it looks like an inlaid area? Is there any kind of trim that they sell that looks like marquetry?

 

[PeterK]

Unless the previous install ends at a door, a transition strip will not look good. If the new strips matches the existing ones good (no tile run shading issues), I personally would tooth it in which means the Fein imitator will get a work out. The scraper blades should allow you to get the strips up half decent and you will probably have to sand out rough spots in the subfloor. I'm surprised they had you use "old school" 2 part epoxy and not a urethane to install before. I was a flooring contractor and we stopped using most of the epoxies in the mid to late 80s! If you did a DIY epoxy install, it would not shock me if it comes up easier than you are anticipating... No reflection on your skill set but based on my own experiences with installers that used it frequently. Failure rates were higher than any other adhesives we used.

 

[MikeP]

I used the term "epoxy" to describe the adhesive but that was my own, possibly incorrect, use of the term. In any case, it's a two-part adhesive sold under the Amtico brand name and they recommend it for marine use and won't warranty the flooring in that application if it is not used. So maybe it's good stuff…or maybe not.

 

[bigbill]

mike, you could always cut the old amtico back to the door, add a border/divider and make the transition there. it would look better than if you did it in a random area of the salon.

 

[MikeP]

The current amtico/carpet meet just aft of the side doors, essentially delineating the helm area from the rest of the salon. So it would look "logical" to just put a transition strip there but we would prefer the continuous look. SeaEric stopped by yesterday with a good idea that we are thinking about.

The Admiral will be leaving the boat on Monday, not returning for over a month. So after she leaves, I'll pull up the carpet, put down some 1/4" underlayment to match the existing Amtico underlayment, and then just dry-lay some different patterns to see how they look. I'll send pics to the Admiral and she'll decide what I will do! I'm hoping it WON"T involve pulling up any of the old stuff but that's not my decision!

 

[Capt Paul]

Ah. Just make sure the picture for the easiest option looks best!

 

[MikeP]

Pulled up the carpet today and started laying the plywood underlayment. Decided to do the "continuous look" which means pulling up portions of the already-laid Amtico…

Fein tool clone was useless for the job - cut the plywood as easily as the adhesive so it actually makes it more work because you can't keep the blade perfectly parallel to the amtico/plywood joint and thus, it creates gouges in the plywood and it's very slow.

Heat gun works well as far as removing the board. Heating the board quite hot will allow it to be pulled up but the adhesive remains on the wood so more heating/scraping is needed to get it off the wood. Took over 30 minutes to do two of the board pieces that are only about 8" long…there are 37 that need pulling, some as long as 24" the longer they are, the more time it takes for scraping the adhesive …

I'm trying to find a way to cross- cut individual pieces of amtico in place. THe Fein will do it but leaves too rough of a jointing surface. There's probably a finer tooth blade available; I'll check on that.

 

[z28jimi]

How about a trim router with a straight, carbide-edged bit, set to cut just the thickness of the Amtico. Place a straightedge down using double face tape, and make your crosscut. Should give you a clean edge. If you go just a smidge deeper than the Amtico's thickness, you might be able to shave off the adhesive too.

 

[MikeP]

I'm sure that would work well but I don't have the gear.

I managed to get about half of the boards cut out yesterday. As usual, after doing it a while I got faster at it. I got it down to around 5-6 minutes per board. And I have to say that whatever the 2-part Amtico-branded adhesive actually is chemical-wise, it is SOME TOUGH STUFF. It acts a lot like cured 5200 - somewhat flexible and very tenacious. Takes a lot of heat to get it to the point where it can be scraped off.