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AC on a 30 amp powr cord

  • Thread starter Thread starter Maynard Rupp
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 52
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My "new to me" antique 41 twin cabin has the same 30 amp incoming for the 2 air units setup being discussed here. I have had no problems with it until this weekend. I was at the Inner Harbor Marina in Baltimore (new docks and new wiring a few years ago) when I smelled an unhappy "hot" electrical smell with both my air units running. I shut one down and nursed it through the weekend only running the (smaller) stateroom split unit. I now have a burned cord end and a compromised 30 amp inlet on the boat. I should have had the presence of mind to check the voltage coming from the dock. From what I'm reading here, low voltage from the dock was the likely cause.

So now I have to dig in to my 30 amp air service incoming to see what I need to replace/rewire/re work. I'd eventually like to upgrade to a 50 amp 250 service like I did on my last boat. I sure don't want to spend the money now, at least not on that.
 
A 50 amp upgrade is a wise move. as a rule of thumb you should not exceed 80% of the recptacle and breaker rating for extended periods unless all the circuit devices are rated for continuous duty. The recptacle connection on your boat is the weak point, with or without corrosion and can cause a fire.
 
One of my best upgrades was to 50a 250, had all the same problems mentioned above then one evening my boat nearly caught fire due to my overheated 30a A/C inlet. An upgrade well worth the time and $$$ IMHO.
 
I m always surprised to see how many marinas have marginal power with either no
50amp service or low voltage

Upgrading the volt and amp meters to easy to read digital is worth the money... This will tell you right away what s going and if voltage is down because of new boats / loads etc... Obviously As voltage comes down, amp go up increasing the risk

I often see under 110v at docks Couple of weeks ago inwas at fairhaven shipyard getting an air con repaired and we had to switch back to the genny for the tech to finish as shore voltage was under 208v ...
 
When I did the 50a/250v upgrade on my 46 Matthews, the original estimate was $3,500 to $5,000. It ended up costing around $15,000. for what was done. The "while you're in there" stuff really ran the cost up.

I would rather spend the $$ to replace my old original Air Cond units for new lower draw equipment and then "tune up" but leave the original 30a electrical config alone.

Pascal, your rec on adding new meters to monitor voltage and amp draw is spot on. That will get done on my boat no matter what else.
 
I took the compromised connection apart today. The problem 30a air cond service inlet is some off brand piece from a manufacturer that I have not before heard of. Both cords and the other inlet are Hubbell. I have ordered a new Hubbell 30a inlet and a new Hubbell cord to replace the burned units.

The supply wire seems to be in excellent condition except for the last 3/4" of the white leg which is slightly burned. The wires look to me to be newer than the boat so perhaps this has been replaced somewhere along the way. The wires appear to be attached to the inlet by inserting them into a slot and clamped by tightening a screw. Somehow I pictured a crimp connector wire end that would be attached to a lug in there, but its not. I did not take apart the existing Hubbell side to see how it attaches the wires, but I assume it is similar. I will find out for sure in the morning when the new Hubbell parts arrive.

Is there any reasonable way to increase the integrity of the wire connection of the 3 supply wires to the back of the 30a inlet?

In the course of this I will also be inspecting the wire run and connections to the AC panel for this 30a service.
 
I have done many conversions to 50A/250. Most have been around 1K cord included.
 
I have done many conversions to 50A/250. Most have been around 1K cord included.

The damned cord is almost half that. So a new 50a/250v inlet, 2 new 50a panel breakers to replace the 30's, the new cord and some wire. At one "boat unit", that obviously can't include labor.
 
Daves number is not way off. It about right when the conversion is simple. All that needs to be replaced is everything between the master breaker at the panel ( or the one at the inlet if there is one there too) and the cord. The cable is not cheap but the new lines for the power inlets to the breakers is usually pretty short.
 
The damned cord is almost half that. So a new 50a/250v inlet, 2 new 50a panel breakers to replace the 30's, the new cord and some wire. At one "boat unit", that obviously can't include labor.

All right I just came up with around 1350.00. If you want to give me more that is cool. Line them up for me. I miss Annies steaks!
 
Funny, when I first suggested to Maynard that he should convert to 50Amp, the resident expurts howled how I would burn the boat up, have insurance cancelled etc etc etc.................

Now they all want to do it!!!!
 
Funny, when I first suggested to Maynard that he should convert to 50Amp, the resident expurts howled how I would burn the boat up, have insurance cancelled etc etc etc.................

Now they all want to do it!!!!

However you do it...It's a good thing !!!

Two A/C units on one 30 amp shore line is always close to the limit of that shore line....

Add to the fact...That every year during this time of year (when the water is hotter) we hear more of these complaints...We are burning up connections or whatever...Like I said...This happens EVERY year at this time....

IF....You have two A/C systems on one 30 amp shore cord....It's imperative that you keep your strainer clean & be sure that your water coil is shiny clean inside...Heat transfer is the word...

Hot seawater makes it draw more amperage...Dirty cooling system makes it worse, and most times over the limit of the connections or cord....

Steve~
 
Dave it's not the idea of changing out the system for a 50 amp line. many of the people here would not change out the feed lines from the inlets to the breakers and allow the system to draw more than the wire can safely handle.

Putting a 50 amp source in is not that complicated. Making it safe is not that complicated. As you stated it's just the cost of the materials that freaks some of the people out and then they cut cost and leave something unsafe.
 
I converted to a single 50 amp shore connection years ago. My three 120v AC units drew about 32 amps alone, more on starting, requiring constant maintenance of their 30 amp shore power cord connector. As I was eliminating the split AC (front salon and galley) in favor of a fourth dedicated unit I decided to make some other changes. The factory electrical panel was running too hot so I replaced it with a much larger one with all new wiring. I also divided the AC load onto both legs with the most used, the master cabin and the aft salon, on different legs. This has really spread the load and balanced the system.

In retrospect, maybe I should have gone to 220v AC units replacing the 110v ones. Maybe next time. When Fanfare was built 220v power was a rarity on docks, powering only the stove. I still feel a little uncomfortable around salt water and 220v.

In normal usage this this arrangement has worked fine. I think we tripped a shore breaker once this voyage in the Bahamas. On the 12.5 Kw generator I can run almost everything, although I have to cut one AC and/or the water heater if doing a lot of cooking (five burners, oven).

Every year my boat gets a little better as things get tweaked. After 45 years it is just about the way I want it!
 
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That means I have another 25 years to get things right. What a relief! I was starting to hurry there for a bit.
 
My boat is 45 years old also.

I replaced the 30 amp inlet this morning and connected the new 30amp cord. With no draw, the voltage reads 121v. With just the stateroom air running which includes the raw water pump, the draw is 1500 watts and the voltage is around 110v according to the Hatteras factory installed meters on the Air Cond AC panel. When I crank up the salon air unit, the draw goes to 3400 watts and the voltage drops to about 105 volts.

I see an upgrade to 50a in my future.
 
My boat is 45 years old also.

I replaced the 30 amp inlet this morning and connected the new 30amp cord. With no draw, the voltage reads 121v. With just the stateroom air running which includes the raw water pump, the draw is 1500 watts and the voltage is around 110v according to the Hatteras factory installed meters on the Air Cond AC panel. When I crank up the salon air unit, the draw goes to 3400 watts and the voltage drops to about 105 volts.

I see an upgrade to 50a in my future.

There is your answer...3400 watts @ 105 volts is 32.3 amps...Even if you had 115 volts it's still 29.5 amps...

When was the last time the A/C condenser coils were acid flushed to remove scale ?

If a long time...A good flush can do wonders at lowering that amp draw...

Steve~
 
Probably never. I've owner her for 2 months so far. I'm getting caught up on stuff. I'll get my AC guy to do it.
 
I hesitate to add one more opinion to this subject, but here I go. It appears to me that three different subjects are getting mixed in this discussion that should not be. The three problems are, voltage available at the pedestal under load from your boat and others, the stress on a boat's 30 amp shore power service when drawing just over 30 amps, and the proper maintenance of air conditioners. Could add a fourth as to what to expect from 208 volt three phase service when used as input to a single phase 240 volt boat, depending on the wiring configuration.

First, and for me the most important of all, is what service looks like at the pedestal when under load by your boat. SeaEric states that he is seeing a 16 volt drop (13%+), when going from no load to a 32 amp load on a 120 volt service. That is 336 watts being dissipated between the utility service and the boat electrical panel in the boat. Lots of power being lost. Far to much to blame the shore power cord/fittings and boat wiring. If it were only these items dissipating 336 watts, something would be melting. Thus the first check should be what voltage do you have on the line at the pedestal when the 32 amp load is present. This will never get better by working on the boat, the marina will have to do something to lessen this line drop in their wiring. And if the drop is in the marina wiring, loading the same wiring to 50 amps will likely result in a 26 volt drop, instead of 16.

Second, the need to have your shore power cord, and especially all connection in first class condition, can not be overstressed. When the load has been on the shore power for 10 minutes or so, take a hand held non contact temperature gun and check the temperature of the entire path. Check starting at the pedestal connection and end at the electrical connections to the air conditioner condenser. Check everything inbetween. Any variation in temperature along this path needs to be investigated, without delay.

Third, the proper maintenance of the air conditioners, I am going to leave this to the resident expert, spcoolin.

And fourth, what can you expect by converting to 240V/50A service. It does depend on the use of an isolation transformer or not on the boat, but the vast majority of conversions from 120V/30A will likely not involve an isolation transformer. So, lets look at that case. First the 50 amp shore line inlet fitting is obviously required, along with a 240V/50A shore power cord. You will also need two 50 fuse holders and fuses at the inlet for both hot wires. Next the wiring from the the new inlet to your breaker panels will need to be upgraded to tinned #6 wires, red, black, white, and green boat wire. Assuming the boat has two electric breaker panels, the likely installation is to split the two phases, one going to each panel. Red/White/Green to one panel and Black/White/Green to the other. Next it gets very specific to the breaker panel configuration, but what has to be done is to replace any wire in the panel that will be handling 50 amps to #6. If you know what you are doing in the panel this is not a difficult task, if you are not absolutely sure what needs to be done, get help. By doing this conversion, you will have 120V/50A service in both panels and will see the 120 volts on 120/240 volt service and 120/208 volt service. Just keep in mind that what voltage you will see at your breaker panels will never be any higher that what is at the pedestal under load. If the marina has good voltage at the pedestal, and it holds pretty good under load, you will now be able to take advantage of the additional power. If good voltage under load is not available at the pedestal, all your work will not accomplish any improvement.

The problem with 208 three phase service being used on boats designed for 240 single phase power through an isolation transformer has been discussed before on this forum and has to do with the isolation transformer establishing the boat neutral using a center tap on the secondary winding. I will not get into this unless someone want to start the discussion after reading all the previous postings

Pete
 
Pete thats well stated. I think most of us would consider that the 50 amp upgrade at the panel would never be used by a single device. When I have done upgrades the wire to the panels new 50 amp source was as far downstream as anything needed to be upgraded. All the wiring and inlet breakers of course need to be at the correct rating for the wire they service.

I will probably do this on my vessel soon as the 30 amp cords just need too much attention and replacement when we do a lot of cooking or use the AC. Our dock has 50 amps of pretty clean and consistent power so I will change all the lines that carry the higher load ( including the neutral and grounds) between the panels and the power peds. I will probably not exceed the 30A limits that I have now but because everything will be heavier I will have headroom so the cord will not get as stressed with heat and if I do have a hair dryer turned on while we are cooking nothing will trip.
 

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