Port Engine Starter Issue Resulting in Transmission Oil Leak

[JD5652]

The starter is a Delco P/N 1114925 which is a 32 VDC, Model 40 MT, CCW rotation (aka Left Hand). The other unusual aspect of this starter is that the solenoid is mounted at the 6 o'clock position which is underneath the starter. Normal orientation for the solenoid is for the solenoid to be mounted at the 12 o'clock position which is above the starter body. (See attached photo)

The transmission is Allison Model MH30 which is a 2.96:1 ratio.

The unique combination of these two pieces of equipment is that the starter is mounted directly to the bell housing and the starter mounting flange location is open to the transmission oil reservoir.

The normal problem with oil leaking from the starter is a worn or lack of a gasket from the starter mounting flange. This has been reported here before. However, my circumstance is somewhat more unusual and thought I would pass along the lessons learned.

I have had a nuisiance transmission oil leak since I've owned the boat (summer 2019). I suspected it was the mounting flange gasket and had planned to replace it this winter but life had different plans for me. Anyway, after the last trip with the boat the leak became more pronounced and now requires repair before the boat goes out again. During the last trip while doing an underway engine room inspection, I noted transmission oil coming from the starter solenoid.... yes... that is NOT a typo... it was coming from the back end of the solenoid. My DD mechanic that has over 50 years experience did not believe me either until I showed him the video.

Evidently, this starter has seals and boots internally that prevents the oil from migrating into the starter. Evidently my seals and boots for this starter are no longer functioning. This result is I need a new starter or have this one rebuilt. Neither of which is an easy or straightforward path.

During this journey, I found two great resources I wanted to pass along. The first one is East Coast Battery and Electric in Fort Lauderdale.

www.eastcoastbattery.com

Davis S. there was great help and he is shipping me a remanufactured starter to CT as I type this.

Another great resource is Clark Son Co. located in New Haven, CT.

www.clark-sonco.com

Scott Brigman has been manufacturing and rebuilding starters and alternators for boats, ships and other industrial customers for over 40 years. Not only can they repair and refurb these starters, but they can also build a brand new one from scratch. Scott could have built me a new one in two days. How's that for SERVICE. Scott will get my original one for rebuild once I install the reman unit from East Coast battery.

Hope this information helps someone down the road!

I'll keep everyone posted with a follow up once I replace my starter and get into the guts of everything.







View attachment 52020

 

[Pls]

I have the very same issue with the Delco 40mt starters on my 892s and mh20 transmissions. It seems that transmission oil accumulates in the solenoid housing and leaks out from there. In my case anyway, the oil does not get into the starter itself and the issue does not seem to impact the operation of the starter or solenoid, just makes a bit of a mess. I have not found a solution to the problem yet. Rebuilding one of the starters and replacing the solenoids did not solve the issue. One experienced dd mechanic explained to me that the starter can be clocked on its mounting bracket to rotate the position of the solenoid above horizontal. This will stop the oil accumulation and the leak. Unfortunately in my case between providing clearance for the exhaust manifold and providing access to all 3 starter bracket mounting bolts the best I could rotate it to was about 8 o’clock. This seemed to help a little. If you have clearance for it, you might see if yours can be rotated higher. Otherwise, I will follow your journey with some interest. Good luck.

 

[JD5652]

I have the very same issue with the Delco 40mt starters on my 892s and mh20 transmissions. It seems that transmission oil accumulates in the solenoid housing and leaks out from there. In my case anyway, the oil does not get into the starter itself and the issue does not seem to impact the operation of the starter or solenoid, just makes a bit of a mess. I have not found a solution to the problem yet. Rebuilding one of the starters and replacing the solenoids did not solve the issue. One experienced dd mechanic explained to me that the starter can be clocked on its mounting bracket to rotate the position of the solenoid above horizontal. This will stop the oil accumulation and the leak. Unfortunately in my case between providing clearance for the exhaust manifold and providing access to all 3 starter bracket mounting bolts the best I could rotate it to was about 8 o’clock. This seemed to help a little. If you have clearance for it, you might see if yours can be rotated higher. Otherwise, I will follow your journey with some interest. Good luck.

Same here... my starter functions just fine... except for the leak...

 

[Captain Ralph]

Scratch my first idea.
I see now why they are mounted straight down; That is a drain built in to the end housing for oil to drain away.

There is an accordion like gasket that should keep oil from traveling any further into the solenoid, I guess it finally failed.

It is amazing how many of these designs are out there, so crude yet still (somehow) remains pretty reliable.
F M

 

[JD5652]

Scratch my first idea.
I see now why they are mounted straight down; That is a drain built in to the end housing for oil to drain away.

There is an accordion like gasket that should keep oil from traveling any further into the solenoid, I guess it finally failed.

It is amazing how many of these designs are out there, so crude yet still (somehow) remains pretty reliable.
F M

Capt-

If you are talking about what appears to be a drain in photo 2, that is not connected to the solenoid. That is the crankcase drain hose that happens to be in the photo... optical illusion.

 

[Captain Ralph]

Capt-

If you are talking about what appears to be a drain in photo 2, that is not connected to the solenoid. That is the crankcase drain hose that happens to be in the photo... optical illusion.

Oh, then don't scratch my first idea,,,, that was scratched.
Those starters can be rotated and the solenoid mounted at a different angle. After a new accordion/bellows seal is installed, you may consider rotating the solenoid to a higher installation position.

 

[rwaldrop13]

First let me apologize for being long-winded.

The timing of this thread is incredible - I just experienced this issue Monday on the way back in from our first overnight cruise/transient stay at another marina. I had just replaced the starter solenoid on the port engine, and now I wonder if the previous solenoid failed due to oil in the housing, but since I didn't have any issues or notice any oil leaking from the old solenoid I didn't anticipate this issue. I will try to rotate the starter/solenoid to see if I can resolve this as well.

When we moved the boat from Stuart to Ft Myers last summer we had a delivery captain and made a 2-day crossing thru the Okeechobee. On day 2 he thought he was having shift issues with the port engine about 2 hours after leaving Clewiston, topped off the transmission oil and said it was OK. We couldn't revisit the issue because we had marina issues when we arrived in Ft Myers and I forgot to bring it up when I drove him back to Stuart. He said it wasn't super low, just enough to disable forward.

Reading this thread has shed some light on this since the fluid level was fine on Sunday on our way down, and I was able to clear the dock Monday morning and run back up the river but when I slowed and tested forward/reverse before coming into the marina found I didn't have forward on the port engine (8V92ti) but reverse was working. Of course I needed port forward to make docking easier, but we got in and tied up. When I saw this thread I remembered the issue last summer and now I have a path forward.

 

[JD5652]

I will have some answers on Monday. My reman starter arrived yesterday and my long time DD mechanic is coming on Monday. I could easily do the swap out myself, but I want the guy with 50+ years experience to be there and glean some knowledge from him.

I'll post up some photos of the old starter internals for better clarity on this issue.

And yes Capt. Ralph... when we install the new starter I'm going to try and clock the solenoid to a higher position.. we'll see how that goes...

To be continued....

 

[zigzag930]

Interesting thread. I have had a slow oil leak on the starboard (Alison) transmission and not figured out exactly where the oil is going yet. Will have to see if the starter is flooded with oil. I do not see any "clear" oil leaks anywhere. Of course as this is DD, there are some dark oil spots on the oil-sorbs....

 

[Captain Ralph]

To be continued....

The best threads are always continued. Like the best old Soap operas;
Hatteras Hospital...
Look forward to all updates.
Musical notes; Bump pum pumbbbb..

 

[rwaldrop13]

OK turns out my grasp of spatial relationships needs work. I will be turning the port starter tomorrow and remounting it... Apparently I was looking at it from a bad angle.

I actually bought the DD tech manual for my engines. When you get to the part about the starter/solenoid, it specifically says the solenoid MUST be "above the centerline" of the starter.

 

[JD5652]

Here is the rest of the story to date....

Learned from the previous owner that the port starter had been replaced about six months before I bought the boat. Evidently the installer did not realize the solenoid had to be "clocked" to above the transmission reservoir fill line.

Removed the original starter. Before installing the replacement, clocked the mounting flange as high as possible (See photo below). This took a couple of iterations and manhandling that beast of a starter is definitely a two man operation. The limiting factor is interference with the blower (See photo below). We ended up with about a 10 o'clock position.

I'll update this thread when I get original starter rebuilt as to the condition of any of the internal seals, etc. I'm thinking the seals were likely OK and it was just how the starter was mounted that was the issue.

 

[JD5652]

Photo showing close interference with blower...

 

[rwaldrop13]

After much application of Ackroil, I was finally able to start loosening bolts on the port starter. The solenoid is at 5-o'clock currently and the goal is to rotate the mounting so it's above 3-o'clock. Not fun. Only room for one person in the engine room, but I have built a 2x4 platform that will actually serve as a brace to hold the starter in place once the bolts are finally out.

 

[rwaldrop13]

OK the joys of seized bolts... Combined with waiting on socket extensions so I could get starter loose. I also built 2x4 frame to "catch" the starter and slide it out to the engine room floor. I'll be taking the starter to local rebuilder that is highly recommended by both marina neighbors, and specifically asking them to check for oil in the housing. The solenoid was brand new, and clean. I'll share more information, but here is the local rebuild shop in case anyone in the Ft Myers area needs it.

Havana Auto Electric | Auto Electric & Repair

One of my marina neighbors has used them several times, and the harbormaster at the marina says they're reliable - and do good work.

 

[neildeb2]

I’m impressed with anyone that can handle these starters alone. Mine is a 50MT and allegedly weighs almost 70lbs.

Do the starter bolts require a special socket? My starter mounting bolts look almost like they’d need a star-shaped socket to loosen. And for something of the weight and size of these starters, the bolt heads appear kinda small, not as big I expected.

 

[Avenger]

It's a common 12 pt socket.

Bolts are stronger than you think.

 

[Captain Ralph]

S shaped 12 point wrenches, socket extensions and home made tools are used commonly to get these bolts out. Hard to reach heavy bast*** starter also.
The 2x4 shelf is a good idea. We also used a stud or two to guide the starter in position.

Hard to do 12oz arm curls after a 50MT starter job, but when accomplished, well deserved.

 

[rwaldrop13]

I’m impressed with anyone that can handle these starters alone. Mine is a 50MT and allegedly weighs almost 70lbs.

Do the starter bolts require a special socket? My starter mounting bolts look almost like they’d need a star-shaped socket to loosen. And for something of the weight and size of these starters, the bolt heads appear kinda small, not as big I expected.

I had to buy 12-point sockets and extensions which I am sure I will be using elsewhere. The funny for me was I had to use 1/2 inch socket drive and socket for 2 bolts, 1/4 inch socket drive and small socket to fit the "top" bolt due to interference. The bolts are pretty beefy - I am replacing with new of same configuration just because of age. And stocking some spares because if I drop one in the well under the engine it's going to be a JOY to retrieve! Since moving aboard, I have had to buy tools I didn't realize I would need to supplement the ones I already had.

Socket Set AmazonSmile: 1/2-Inch Drive 12-Point Standard Socket Set, 11-Pc : Tools & Home Improvement

Universal joint set SUNHZMCKP Universal Joint Socket, 3-Piece，1/4-Inch, 3/8-Inch, 1/2-Inch Drive Set - - AmazonSmile

Small socket set GEARWRENCH 10 Pc. 1/4" Drive 12 Pt. Standard Socket Set, SAE - 80307D - - AmazonSmile

 

[Boatsb]

Be careful with the cheap tools.

Too many break under stress and send users to the hospital for stitches.

Craftsman USA made would be a minimum quality tool for any real torque. And impact sockets for impact guns. Dont take chances.