Rudder Work Labor Hours

[capttonyf]

 

[capttonyf]

 

[capttonyf]

 

[Finalee]

Parts runner? They do deliver in most places. I feel better about all the time I have booked on my own boat. Zincs 1.4 hours? Some of those charges seem a bit padded.

 

[capttonyf]

Sorry for the way it's all posted but if you look through it you'll see where it appears hours were just thrown together to justify a labor estimate cost.
One example being.

Item #11 May 19th Jorge Remove and replace Rudder Packing 3.43 Hours $303.00 Then on

Item #10 May 26th Bob Heated nuts-Jacking Nuts, Removed all 4, Replaced and Cut Packing-Installed in the Packing Gland.

My question was how did Jorge spend 3.43 hours repacking Rudders 7 days before the rudders were in the boat. Also how did Jorge spend 3.43 hours doing somthing someone else did 7 days later in half the time and those labor hours inluded removing Jacking Nuts. These were the question I got told I was pissing him off about. They Flat Out Lied about the Labor on these Job Items to run up the Bill.

If your going to bill according to the Job the tell the customer and DO IT! But don't pretend you bill according to the hour and then make crap up to justify and "ESTIMATE" and Not a "QOUTE" where sometimes you win and soetimes you loose depending on the accuracy of your quote.

I still can't believe I caught them lieing, and they would only discount the Bill $300.00 and then tried to charge me dockage. I won't be going back there, and I won't be recommending them to anyone. I'm a fair person, I don't bad mouth people, and I want people to make a good living. I just don't want to be taken advantage of in the process and I feel that's what they did. Now after asking around the industry I had some other people complain and or heard people complaining about similar issues with the same yard. It's a small tight nit industry and you don't want to udevelope that kind of reputation.

Thanks for Reading

Tony

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Sorry to hear of the problems but at least you got a good job. Years back on my boat before I owned her, Cable Marine supposedly did the install of the Naiads. It was a terrible job IMO. But, then, I can't be sure that they actually did the work because I have no paperwork on it. It's just what I was told.

 

[Walter P]

Some yards deserve the dishonor of "The last bastion of legalized piracy". Unfortunately the honest hard working professional (of which we have several on this site) often gets lumped into the same pot. It is no wonder that so many people leave boating after an experience like Tony. About 25 yrs or so ago I had a similar situation with a major yard in Mobile, Ala. After much discussion and yelling they adjusted the bill down from $30,000 to about $25,000. I was very disappointed with them for even trying to "pad" the bill and would never recommend them. Their original quote was under $20,000 A couple of years later I moved back North so it became a non issue as to where I would have my boat serviced.

On a positive note I have heard nothing but good stuff about Scott in Fla and Dave and others on the Chesapeake as well.

I live in a gated comunity (wrinkle village..55 or older) in NJ and we have a list at the Homeowners Association office of good and bad comments about various service companies from roofers to plumbers and everything in between. Whenever any one of us needs to hire a "professional" we check out the list for comments.BTW, we have over 1200 single family homes in our community and it's still growing. Perhaps we might be able to do something like that for our members.

Walt

 

[bobk]

Walt, Active Captain is working on just this.

Bobk

 

[Boatsb]

That might turn into another angies list list from hell. Someone will want to make money from it and then it's shot.

FWIW Angie list is so goor they have yet to turn a profit.



And don't be surprised if the vendors keep a list of customers .

 

[SKYCHENEY]

And don't be surprised if the vendors keep a list of customers .

You know some of them talk. I'm sure some customers get much better quotes than others for the same work.

I have an attorney friend that told me that they intentionally pad the bill for one good customer because he always calls and complains and won't give up until they cut something off of the bill. Its like a sale at West Marine; mark it up 500% and then take 30% off so you think you're getting a deal.

 

[Boatsb]

You know some of them talk. I'm sure some customers get much better quotes than others for the same work.

I have an attorney friend that told me that they intentionally pad the bill for one good customer because he always calls and complains and won't give up until they cut something off of the bill. Its like a sale at West Marine; mark it up 500% and then take 30% off so you think you're getting a deal.

More like some customers are not worth the time to do the work for. No mater what you charge their never happy.

Give them a fair price and they have to fight you. To bad they don't appreciate the service since they only want to beat up their vendors.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Tony, I think you got screwed, but there isn't going to be anything you can do about it. I think the bill is outrageous and probably triple what it ought to be.

 

[capttonyf]

Tony, I think you got screwed, but there isn't going to be anything you can do about it. I think the bill is outrageous and probably triple what it ought to be.

Thanks for that, lol. Again, like I mentioned before, this wasn't posted to bash anyone. I just want everyone to be informed with the "facts" of something I expierienced so someone else doesn't make the same mistake. The more informed we are about the good and bad expieriences of other members the better off we all are for it. I'm not posting to say don't use that yard, I'm posting to make everyone aware of what happened so they can make an informed decision on who they use in the future, and if they use that yard, they know ahead of time what to look out for.

Tony

 

[captddis]

I ignore the cheat sheets and look at the total.
Your bottom job is the same as what I pay for my 46
The rudder packing was fair
the waxing was very fair
the zincs was a little high but not crazy
The shaft was high but they can be a bitch!
The bilge pump was kind of high but not crazy

The parts runner is BS, but it is like all the suppliers who still are charging fuel costs even though fuel is down.

 

[Boatsb]

Maybe the yard owner needs some customer service training. Aside from that if the final billed hours are close to expected numbers it's probably pretty fair.

FWIW.

parts usually ship in with freight as part of the cost. If I need to run out and get things for a customer because they can't wait for shipping or its something they screwed up they pay. If it's something I didn't get I don't charge for running around.

 

[capttonyf]

I ignore the cheat sheets and look at the total.
Your bottom job is the same as what I pay for my 46
The rudder packing was fair
the waxing was very fair
the zincs was a little high but not crazy
The shaft was high but they can be a bitch!
The bilge pump was kind of high but not crazy

The parts runner is BS, but it is like all the suppliers who still are charging fuel costs even though fuel is down.

Things I agree on with you and I told them the same thing.

1. Waxing, Fair. Outside contractor.
2. Zincs, fair enough.
3. Bottom Job, Good. That's why we went there.
4. Rudder Packing. IF, IF, IF, thats all they did to the rudders, because like I mentioned before to pack Rudders and only do packing there's alot of work. Pull Fish Box, Prep area, lift the collars, dig out old packing, repack the rudders, put everything back together, make sure it's tight, and put Fish box back in. It could take a day iif you run into any issues. BUT, if I already paid you to take everything apart and R&R the rudders and do the upper and lower bearings. To me theres no need to charge $546.00 to pack the rudder gland when I already paid you $795.90 to remove and replace the rudders. R&R of the rudders should include packing gland Labor, not the "Parts/Packing" but the Labor. To prove my point on that. The guy who R&R the rudders listed as one of his tasks during that process, was "Cut and Replaced Packing". Then they had a seperate guy say he packed the Rudder Gland 7 days prior to the rudders being installed in the boat and charged full price. That's two guys listed as doing the same thing.

That's what set my BS detecter off and made me look even more closely at the bill where I found a couple other issues.

I also questioned how many hours were spent on the rudder bearing replacement. He told me while work was being performed, "prior to Billing" that everything went smooth with no issues other then one rudder was stuck and took 3 hour to remove.

Labor on replacing engine seacock. 12.5 hours I thought was high, that 1 1/2 Days.

Finally Labor on Dripless Shaft Seals. Keep in mind one shaft and old seal were already apart and charged labor udner a different item. But 25 Hours of Labor to install Dripless seals, That's just over 3 days of Labor to install the seals. To me that seems high, I've never personally done it but it seems high. There were no issues either to one being frozen or stuck becuase I asked. If there was I could see maybe the hours being higher but there wasn't. If anyone one here has personally changed out Dripless Seals and I'm wrong, and it really is a 3 day job, please let me know, so I'm better informed for the future. But if someone has done it in 5 or 10 or 12 hours let me know that as well.

I posted everything in writing so members can make a decision on there own, based off the facts and not off an owner that maybe boo hooing over sour milk and not really have a place to. I hope I'm wrong then I won't feel as bad, like I was taken advatage of for being out of town. I just don't think I am, I think some of this bill was fair and some of it was padded. Thats' just my opinion.

Thanks

Tony

 

[capttonyf]

Maybe the yard owner needs some customer service training.

LOL. That is one thing that is for sure true. He could use it, Sometimes in business a good explination for the customer is all thats needed. If I had a good, professional explination of why what is what. Then I'd be happy, I'm a very reasonable guy. I know crap happens, I know repairing these boats is time consuming and expensive. I just think, when you have a question you deserve a good, and fair answer. Not a run around, and a "I'm Pissed" for simply asking about a billing issue where they admitted they made a few mistakes after I pressed the issue.

Tony

 

[tomrealest]

My boat has been in Ft. Lauderdale for 13 years. I have heard more unhappy stories about George Cable than you would believe. I have heard the work was good, pricing unreal and explanations the same as yours.
There is some kind of law in Florida about estimates/quotes being within 10% but it is very precise in the wording. Who would want to go thru the headache?

Someone mentioned Cracker. My experience in West Palm was very good and I will return.

 

[captddis]

Things I agree on with you and I told them the same thing.

1. Waxing, Fair. Outside contractor.
2. Zincs, fair enough.
3. Bottom Job, Good. That's why we went there.
4. Rudder Packing. IF, IF, IF, thats all they did to the rudders, because like I mentioned before to pack Rudders and only do packing there's alot of work. Pull Fish Box, Prep area, lift the collars, dig out old packing, repack the rudders, put everything back together, make sure it's tight, and put Fish box back in. It could take a day iif you run into any issues. BUT, if I already paid you to take everything apart and R&R the rudders and do the upper and lower bearings. To me theres no need to charge $546.00 to pack the rudder gland when I already paid you $795.90 to remove and replace the rudders. R&R of the rudders should include packing gland Labor, not the "Parts/Packing" but the Labor. To prove my point on that. The guy who R&R the rudders listed as one of his tasks during that process, was "Cut and Replaced Packing". Then they had a seperate guy say he packed the Rudder Gland 7 days prior to the rudders being installed in the boat and charged full price. That's two guys listed as doing the same thing.

That's what set my BS detecter off and made me look even more closely at the bill where I found a couple other issues.

I also questioned how many hours were spent on the rudder bearing replacement. He told me while work was being performed, "prior to Billing" that everything went smooth with no issues other then one rudder was stuck and took 3 hour to remove.

Labor on replacing engine seacock. 12.5 hours I thought was high, that 1 1/2 Days.

Finally Labor on Dripless Shaft Seals. Keep in mind one shaft and old seal were already apart and charged labor udner a different item. But 25 Hours of Labor to install Dripless seals, That's just over 3 days of Labor to install the seals. To me that seems high, I've never personally done it but it seems high. There were no issues either to one being frozen or stuck becuase I asked. If there was I could see maybe the hours being higher but there wasn't. If anyone one here has personally changed out Dripless Seals and I'm wrong, and it really is a 3 day job, please let me know, so I'm better informed for the future. But if someone has done it in 5 or 10 or 12 hours let me know that as well.

I posted everything in writing so members can make a decision on there own, based off the facts and not off an owner that maybe boo hooing over sour milk and not really have a place to. I hope I'm wrong then I won't feel as bad, like I was taken advatage of for being out of town. I just don't think I am, I think some of this bill was fair and some of it was padded. Thats' just my opinion.

Thanks

Tony

Being lazy,I left the other items out as I too thought they were high. The seacock labor is insane

 

[Boatsb]

Being lazy,I left the other items out as I too thought they were high. The seacock labor is insane

No that's union hours.