Brunswick Corp. is putting its Cabo and Hatteras brands up for sale

[Liberty4]

No builders are having banner years where they can't keep up with demand. Some continue development and have boats to build. Others cut back on it and build less and less. I hear Bertram built 2 boats last year. There has to be a reason they built so few.

Is this true about Bertram volume?

 

[Tim Powell]

It is a new world in the boat business. Guys on the fishing circuit want speed and cheap.Bingo the customs are in for one and a half mil you can get a custom 58 to 60 with speed and some beauty. Hatteras and the other guys can not touch that the GT is probley basic priced at 2and a half mil.
Put it in a llc write it off for a few years under the idear you are fishing for profit. Write your losses off against your personal salery and keep trucking. Obama paying for the fun.
I was at jarret bay today heard through the grape vine that there are as many as 8 active law suites going on at hatteras regarding sport fish; That was just dock talk. Other rummer there is a buyer in the shaddows. No body knew any thing else except it was not Jarret bay.....The other part was the new buyer has no intentions to keep the sport fish side alive....AGAIN THIS IS DOCK TALK

Amother little bit there was a 65+ sport fish custom that was featured in boating last year or the year befor. It was on the yard for cosmedic and mechanical repairs to the tune of about 300,000.
Now we are talking a year or so old boat custom rig.

Another point look at the depreciation rate of the custom boats kinda tuff. The production boats are not much better but seem not to take as big a lick.. Tim

 

[Boatsb]

Is this true about Bertram volume?

Spoke to a production manager at the plant. I don't think he has a reason to lie.

 

[Avenger]

You think that has anything to do with them relocating the factory?

 

[GJH]

The #1 Hands down reason Viking captured and is taking names on its boats is due to the continual R&D and reinvestment back into the plant. My opinion is that Hatteras gave up on their bread and butter (SF's) in the late 90's. THey didn't have any new tweaks to their product. During the same time, Viking came out with prop pockets in the hull, vacuum infused layup's, Viper independent rudder steering, and incorporated the Penta running gear platform (albeit not wide spread yet due to HP). During the same time, Hatteras changed its interior design 3 times, then tried to relaunched a stripped down SF called the GT. Yes Hatteras changed some window lines, but nothing performance oriented. That attitude continues from the mid to late 90's through today (justifiable today when your selling the platform). That is why I think Viking took over the market and Hatteras did not.

The thing to watch will be Spencer... He makes as many customs as the rest of the custom builders put together. Paul and Daniel are putting cutting edge technology and performance enhancements into their boats faster than Viking can (simply due to being non-production). My opinion is that "any" custom will have about a 8-10 year jump on any "production" boat, simply due to the mfg process of a production boat (it has to be affordable). in fact, a Spencer boat will be less expensive (not equal price) than a Viking boat and have way more technology into it (especially in the 40 - 60 foot range). Once the days of Production building die (now, unless you want a Carver or Bayliner), I think you will see Spencer and a couple of the other larger custom yards start to take over the market.

Actually, a lot of that is simply not true Brian. Hatteras went to vaccuum infusion in that time frame, made more use of tunnels and tweaked them. The GT is not a stripped down version, but designed to go faster and look more like a custom boat does these days (obviously they feel the competition). So a lot of work on the performance side in particular. I see a fair number of boats being sea trialed down the Neuse from our house on the river here in New Bern. Our marina in Morehead is a popular stop off for Vikings being delivered south, and I drive by the plant in New Gretna off the GSP three or four times a year , I am not so sure Viking is doing that much better (or less worse) than Hatt, if at all. Even with the layoffs, there are still about 400 people working over there.

How many times has Hinckley gone through layoffs or been sold now in the last ten years.. two, three?

 

[sandspur1966]

Yes the Hinckley story is absurd and a metaphor for what these companies do to themselves. A great old family company that was put through the wringer by a few different private equity groups. They pulled a ton of cash out of the company through the usual leveraging tactics and then left the commercial lenders, employees and subsequent management holding the bag on a ton of debt.

If it were not for the success of the picnic boats and the aggressive maintenance and refit business streams they may well have disappeared in 2009. This is an old NYT story that does a decent job of highlighting the difference between companies like Sabre, which remains owner-operated and has little or no debt and the corporate or investor owned brands.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/debt-weighs-on-hinckley-venerable-yacht-maker/

Thomas Jefferson, our nation's first conservative, said the following about banks and I agree:

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered...I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies... The power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

Sounds amazingly like AIG and Goldman Sachs doesn't it?

The best hope for Hatteras in my opinion, is that they end up in the hands of caring, innovative and responsible entrepreneur like a Marlow or Sabre.

 

[nor'easter]

I believe that the GT line is a newer hull form that 54/55/60 from the 90s, with added beam and a reworked bottom.

The custom carolinas are beautiful boats, but they dont live here in so cal in big numbers so i have never been aboard one. I imagine that they are well built and can have the same longevity with appropriate care that hatteras boats have been known for. Why the difference in depreciation if that is real?

 

[saltshaker]

I believe that the GT line is a newer hull form that 54/55/60 from the 90s, with added beam and a reworked bottom.

The custom carolinas are beautiful boats, but they dont live here in so cal in big numbers so i have never been aboard one. I imagine that they are well built and can have the same longevity with appropriate care that hatteras boats have been known for. Why the difference in depreciation if that is real?

The current 60C/60GT are derived from a reworked version of the 54/55/60 hull. It's a great hull and all these boats benefit from it. The GT is a big step forward but probably too late for Hatteras. They should have done this in the late '90's when Viking started taking their market share. Interesting thing is those earlier Vikings don't compare to the Hatts yet they outsold and retain a higher resale value than a Hatteras of the same era. The newer Vikings are a different story. Viking has really stepped up it's game and the newer boats are built better, faster and are much better sea boats than what they were building 10 years ago. The Viking reputation and customer support is what is giving the older Vikings such good resale. Compare a late '90s Hatteras 60C to a late 90's Viking 58C. The Hatt is a much better boat by any measure. Speed is similar and the interiors are comparable. The Viking will bring as much if not more than the Hatt and will have more interested buyers. I've seen it when I was shopping and another HOFer saw the same when a friend of his went with a Viking over a Hatt. Viking has done an excellent job of marketing and building and retaining it's market share. Ask a Viking owner what his next boat will be and most will tell you a Viking. Hatteras used to have that but managed to loose it. How many of us would go with a new Hatt if we were in the market for a new boat?

 

[TopHattandTails]

How many of us would go with a new Hatt if we were in the market for a new boat?[/]

Let's see... I'm in the market for a new SF. Im looking at 3 boats pretty seriously. Yes, money matters, but the boat is more important. Oh gee, look at that, Hatteras is for sale and may not support post sale warranties, and certainly won't have a pedigree behind it for potential resale.

I don't know who in their right mind wood buy a new Hatt while it is being advertised for sale. That was a bone headed maneuver to announce it is for sale with out a buyer being announced. Good move Brunswick...

 

[saltshaker]

How many of us would go with a new Hatt if we were in the market for a new boat?[/]

Let's see... I'm in the market for a new SF. Im looking at 3 boats pretty seriously. Yes, money matters, but the boat is more important. Oh gee, look at that, Hatteras is for sale and may not support post sale warranties, and certainly won't have a pedigree behind it for potential resale.

I don't know who in their right mind wood buy a new Hatt while it is being advertised for sale. That was a bone headed maneuver to announce it is for sale with out a buyer being announced. Good move Brunswick...

True, but even prior to the for sale listing, I would have a hard time dropping the cash on a new Hatteras.

 

[administrator]

Actually, a lot of that is simply not true Brian. Hatteras went to vaccuum infusion in that time frame, made more use of tunnels and tweaked them. The GT is not a stripped down version, but designed to go faster and look more like a custom boat does these days (obviously they feel the competition). So a lot of work on the performance side in particular. I see a fair number of boats being sea trialed down the Neuse from our house on the river here in New Bern. Our marina in Morehead is a popular stop off for Vikings being delivered south, and I drive by the plant in New Gretna off the GSP three or four times a year , I am not so sure Viking is doing that much better (or less worse) than Hatt, if at all. Even with the layoffs, there are still about 400 people working over there.

How many times has Hinckley gone through layoffs or been sold now in the last ten years.. two, three?

Since I just received this, I thought I would post it since it seemed to be on topic.... http://www.boattest.com/boats/boat_video.aspx?SubID=2471&ID=2336

 

[captddis]

Thanks for posting the video! I really hope Hatteras is bought by people who are boaters. Hatteras as always set the standard for construction and their systems are the best in the business!

 

[Tim Powell]

i believe that the gt line is a newer hull form that 54/55/60 from the 90s, with added beam and a reworked bottom.

The custom carolinas are beautiful boats, but they dont live here in so cal in big numbers so i have never been aboard one. I imagine that they are well built and can have the same longevity with appropriate care that hatteras boats have been known for. Why the difference in depreciation if that is real?

wooden and rot mold and midue that why.!!!!

 

[jim rosenthal]

I can't imagine how much money I would have to be making to think about a new Hatteras; all I would aspire to on a bigger boat would be a 45-II refit completely. Even that, with an open checkbook refit, would cost far less than a new 54C. My mind doesn't wrap around numbers that big.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

The middle class used to be upwardly mobile. With the ever increasing confiscatory taxes, most will never make it to where they can afford a new Hatteras. It is really too bad but it sure does help keep the voters where they want them.

 

[GJH]

Sky, wasn't the great upwardly mobile American Middle class developed in the 50's and grew on through the 70's and early 80's? Why don't you take a look at what incremental tax rates were back then. There are much bigger forces involved than federal taxes.

 

[Dan Mapes]

Indeed. Our manufacturing base it toast because of world wide competition. Don't forget we bailed out Germany and Japan after WW2. All new tooling, starting fresh, they came along and kicked butt once they had their act together.
Enter Nixon and opening up China. Then Mexico.

Lax trade laws didn't help either.

While we had to invest in plants off shore, companies like BMW didn't open up here until the '90s. The thing is we never learn. Now the IT industry is going the same route.

Until the US dollar plummets bringing money back here, we're toast.

 

[SeaEric]

Clinton and NAFTA sent much of our manufacturing to Mexico. Remember Perot talking about the "giant sucking sound" of our jobs leaving here and going to Mexico? As it turns out, he was correct.

 

[Nick]

Simply put TAX SLAVES

The middle class used to be upwardly mobile. With the ever increasing confiscatory taxes, most will never make it to where they can afford a new Hatteras. It is really too bad but it sure does help keep the voters where they want them.

 

[krush]

White collar slavery