rolly Hats offshore, 60 E.B. vs 53

[Ross Macdonald]

Actually I am really tired of the comments regarding the 60 Hatt EB. I have lived on and travelled on our 1979 EB. I have travelled over 10,000 NM over the last 8 years. For those of you on the East coast, the ocean along the outside of Baja California, Mexico can be very ugly, especially when heading uphill from Cabo. Large swells, very strong winds. There are very few places to hide. Even breaking up the trip with a stop at Turtle Bay, you are at sea for 24 to 36 hrs. We have had this boat in some really ugly weather. If you cross over from the Mexican Mainland to Cabo you can get northers blowing down the Sea of Cortez and it is right on the beam for 30 hours. These boats are like small ships. The previous owner of our boat was bringing it from Seattle to Newport Beach and got caught in a gale off the coast of Oregon with nowhere to safely pull in for 28 hours. The only thing that "broke" were runners on 2 drawers. So to say they are unsafe or too "rolly" or are floating condos is a crock. We have gotten pounded for hours on end. I have been on other boats in bad weather and they all roll, get wet and things break. The only thing I would recommend for the EB versions is to have them stabilized. I can only give this opinion coming from spending alot of hours at sea on this boat. I used to fish on a Bertram and if you want your butt rolled off in a trough, try a deep V hull with about a 20 degree deadrise. Enough said...Ross

 

[motoryacht lover]

Sportfish 45 your feathers seem to be ruffled that rsmith has an opinion that is different from yours or what you want to believe. To me rsmith's posts are very good reading because they apperently are based on a lifetime of more than just recreational use of the type of boats that we are all interested in. To boil it down rsmith knows about his experience with the 60EB, you are trying to figure out what your experience will be if you buy one. I like your approach of analyzing naval architect data and I have learned from that, but I don't get you apperently being bothered because rsmith's info differs from what you apperently want to believe. As far as science trumping knowledge learned from years of experience, I don't share your apparent confidence in science. I value science and math but I definetly don't ignore the old timers and their hard earned knowledge. If all one has to do to build a great sea boat is to hire a naval architect that will run some math why do we have so many poorly performing boats? Not trying to stir a pot but your irratation at rsmith tells me you don't have all the confidence in your info and thus your conclusions.

 

[rsmith]

OK Then as a guy who's going to buy one of these boats I'm faced with a choice. I could Trust the stability data and the opinions of the people at Hat. Trust what I've seen and heard from an awful lot of experienced people and every independant test or review I could find. Or I could trust your opinion. If I trust your opinion I have to believe that the stability data is either wrong or forged. I'd have to believe that hat built and sold hundreds of boats that were simply disasters incapable of performing properly for they're intended purpose and hundreds of people were foolish enough to buy them. I'd have to believe that all the current owners and operators of these boats are conspiring to protect the reputation of hat and are willing to continue using These "scary" boats putting themselves at risk. And I'd have to believe that you choose to do 18 off shore canyon trips on this "scary floating condo"

In my position who would you choose to believe?

I really don't care if you belive me or not Its just my opinion from what I experienced fishing on a new boat over 30 years ago.
The point of this thread was wether the 60 EB or 53 was better laying offshore.I done it in both.The 53 wins hands down.Not wether the 60 was bad or unsafe.Ive never fished on a Hatteras that was a bad boat but no boat is perfect and they all have their downsides.If I had my choice to lay off shore in nasty weather would be the 46. It has higher freeboard so you don't take waves in the cockpit and its lighter and bobs over the waves rather than getting slammed by them.
FACT the factory did recall the 78-79 60's
As far as people buying these boats being foolish, not at all. The only down side of the boat is when its laying in the trough.
No closed bridge boat is going to fish well Ive been a charter captain since I was 19 years old. a good captain needs to feel sence and smell the sea around him you cant do that hiding inside a closed bridge. Second when the fish have balled up the bait and your fishing in a fleet of boats the visibility from the aft controls is restricted by the superstructure in front of you. If you move inside you can't see or comunicate well with the cockpit or see fish in the baits. If it dont fish its a FLOATING CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You criticise me for being scared yes, anyone 100mi offshore at night with the wind blowing 10-20 who isint probably aint comming back.
I take it by your last statment your calling me a liar. All I can say is you Armchair Admirals can't handle the truth.

 

[sportfish 45]

No I'm not calling you a liar I don't know you so how could I say that. Look if your going to give strong negative opinions about a boat that most others don't agree with. If your going to label a very respected offshore boat a floating condo. If your going to say a smaller lighter boat is better off shore because it bobs around on top (that's a pretty radical idea). If your going to call people morons because you don't agree with the selling price they put on they're boats. If your going to do all that then get your panties in a wad when someone challenges you then you should probably stay off the Internet. Anyone can say anything here so very few will look at your opinion as the absolute truth simply because you wrote it and everything is open to challenge.

 

[Mailman]

This sounds like Sunday April 5th in the Hoosier Dome..WWF! Macho Man Randy Savage VS WWF Champ Ric Flair! I need to open a bottle of bourbon
now with little ice..I love this thread

Mailman Jim

 

[rsmith]

No I'm not calling you a liar I don't know you so how could I say that. Look if your going to give strong negative opinions about a boat that most others don't agree with. If your going to label a very respected offshore boat a floating condo. If your going to say a smaller lighter boat is better off shore because it bobs around on top (that's a pretty radical idea). If your going to call people morons because you don't agree with the selling price they put on they're boats. If your going to do all that then get your panties in a wad when someone challenges you then you should probably stay off the Internet. Anyone can say anything here so very few will look at your opinion as the absolute truth simply because you wrote it and everything is open to challenge.

you talk in general terms and draw conclusions without citing specifics. As far as engineering data there would be no need for test pilots if design calculations were infalable.
Because all the other penguins are doing it' its good? Insults and putdowns just highlight your lack of experience.Take the off the seasick patches their cooking your brains.
And furthermore I did apologise for using the term moron but I am sick of seeing the same overpriced boats for sale year after year. If these people are so all fired sure about what the values are put em on ebay with no reserve and see what they will bring. That will be the true value to a buyer.
SOMETHING IS ONLY WORTH WHAT SOMEONE ELSE IS WILLING TO PAY FOR IT.

 

[Mailman]

Hey Smith.......

So if these 60's were placed on ebay....in your opinion what would you pay??



Jim

 

[rsmith]

Hey Smith.......

So if these 60's were placed on ebay....in your opinion what would you pay??



Jim

With $8-10 a gal fuel possible due to the oil spill in the gulf and the more than certain ban on offshore drilling not to mention the restrictions on coal mining after the last mine collapse. I would'nt even hazard a guess.
Have you noticed the price of blow boats has skyrocketed?
Somebody should have the guts to put up or shut up and list one with no reserve. Then we'll see.

 

[sportfish 45]

you talk in general terms and draw conclusions without citing specifics. As far as engineering data there would be no need for test pilots if design calculations were infalable.
Because all the other penguins are doing it' its good? Insults and putdowns just highlight your lack of experience.Take the off the seasick patches their cooking your brains.
And furthermore I did apologise for using the term moron but I am sick of seeing the same overpriced boats for sale year after year. If these people are so all fired sure about what the values are put em on ebay with no reserve and see what they will bring. That will be the true value to a buyer.
SOMETHING IS ONLY WORTH WHAT SOMEONE ELSE IS WILLING TO PAY FOR IT.

I've not ounce mentioned my experience here I'm not into bragging and know that speaking anonymously with no way to back it up it really means nothing. So for all you know I may be more experienced than you. You seem to be of the belief that a stability test is part of the design phase and done on paper it's not. It's an actual test that proves the design as far as stability goes. I'm wondering why you're even concerned about the prices of these boats or why you've looked at any of them. Apparently your years of experience and infinite wisdom has lead you to believe that smaller lighter narrower boats are much better offshore. Perhaps you should check these out. http://www.backwoodslanding.com/10ft.html By your rational this should be a killer canyon boat.

 

[rsmith]

Actually I am really tired of the comments regarding the 60 Hatt EB. I have lived on and travelled on our 1979 EB. I have travelled over 10,000 NM over the last 8 years. For those of you on the East coast, the ocean along the outside of Baja California, Mexico can be very ugly, especially when heading uphill from Cabo. Large swells, very strong winds. There are very few places to hide. Even breaking up the trip with a stop at Turtle Bay, you are at sea for 24 to 36 hrs. We have had this boat in some really ugly weather. If you cross over from the Mexican Mainland to Cabo you can get northers blowing down the Sea of Cortez and it is right on the beam for 30 hours. These boats are like small ships. The previous owner of our boat was bringing it from Seattle to Newport Beach and got caught in a gale off the coast of Oregon with nowhere to safely pull in for 28 hours. The only thing that "broke" were runners on 2 drawers. So to say they are unsafe or too "rolly" or are floating condos is a crock. We have gotten pounded for hours on end. I have been on other boats in bad weather and they all roll, get wet and things break. The only thing I would recommend for the EB versions is to have them stabilized. I can only give this opinion coming from spending alot of hours at sea on this boat. I used to fish on a Bertram and if you want your butt rolled off in a trough, try a deep V hull with about a 20 degree deadrise. Enough said...Ross

Ross my apoligies if I offended you
Agreed that deep v boats like Bertrams roll even at a slow troll.
But I am being accused of things I never said. Show me the post where I said the 60 was "unsafe"
Here are several of your posts which seem to suport my opinions:

"The only thing I would recommend for the EB versions is to have them stabilized" why would you make this comment if the boats did'nt roll.

You also said this about stabilisers " but it sure makes a difference on this boat. In a beam sea, if you put them in standby, the boat rolls quite a bit."
Gee sombody with more experience on the 60 is saying the same thing as me.
and this
"The stabilizers do a great job on the 60 EB while the boat is underway. We don't stop to fish"
Well gee if you don't fish then you live on the boat like in a condo. and since it floats........
Sorry do your words taste good?LMFAO

 

[rsmith]

I have one more thing to say then I'm done. Jack Hargrave and Hatteras made the best designed and built small boats ever. And the 60 is no exception. However no small boat is a Battleship and even they can sink Those who think there vessel is mightier than the sea are headed for disaster Any thing that floats can capsize, burn or flood and sink. I've been in the water twice once on a scallop boat when I was 16 that turned turtle when we caught a snag the second on a 46 hatt that had a turbo fire. Niether time were we able to deploy the raft. Both times we were lucky and picked up by a neaby boat. I notice a lot of the EB boats have the raft on the hard top I wonder what the plan is to get it down in a seaway or fire?
Do you have a emergency action plan if your battlewagon sinks or burns?

 

[rsmith]

I've not ounce mentioned my experience here I'm not into bragging and know that speaking anonymously with no way to back it up it really means nothing. So for all you know I may be more experienced than you. You seem to be of the belief that a stability test is part of the design phase and done on paper it's not. It's an actual test that proves the design as far as stability goes. I'm wondering why you're even concerned about the prices of these boats or why you've looked at any of them. Apparently your years of experience and infinite wisdom has lead you to believe that smaller lighter narrower boats are much better offshore. Perhaps you should check these out. http://www.backwoodslanding.com/10ft.html By your rational this should be a killer canyon boat.

Actualy most of the commercial boats I worked on back in the day had these strapped to the top of the wheel house thinking was if the raft didnt inflate you had something to get into. I saw last season on Deadliest catch the Northwestern has on on its wheelhouse . You might be on to something here.

 

[Mailman]

With $8-10 a gal fuel possible due to the oil spill in the gulf and the more than certain ban on offshore drilling not to mention the restrictions on coal mining after the last mine collapse. I would'nt even hazard a guess.
Have you noticed the price of blow boats has skyrocketed?
Somebody should have the guts to put up or shut up and list one with no reserve. Then we'll see.

Thanks for your response and opinion

 

[rsmith]

Actualy most of the commercial boats I worked on back in the day had these strapped to the top of the wheel house thinking was if the raft didnt inflate you had something to get into. I saw last season on Deadliest catch the Northwestern has on on its wheelhouse . You might be on to something here.

So let me get this straight. you think I'm foolish for prefering a fairly light 35k lb mid 40s ' boat with a 13' beam and 3' draft in a bad seaway? Tell me other than a aluminum john boat which would you prefer to be in?

 

[sportfish 45]

So let me get this straight. you think I'm foolish for prefering a fairly light 35k lb mid 40s ' boat with a 13' beam and 3' draft in a bad seaway? Tell me other than a aluminum john boat which would you prefer to be in?

OK so a shorter lighter narrower boat is always the best choice in a nasty seaway. I'm glad you said that and I'll accept that as your opinion. This is why I never pay much attention to an anonymous person that goes on and on about all they're experience on the internet. Usually people that feel the need to do that don't have very good information. Oh and to answer your question I'd prefer an 82,000 lb boat with an 18' beam 4' 11" draft and a nice deep keel one built by a reputable manufacturer with a large production run like over 125. One with a very good reputation for offshore performance and this is just my preference but I'd like an enclosed bridge.

And just to be clear you can run into a sea condition were a smaller lighter narrower boat may do better than a larger heavier boat depending on the height and timing of the waves. But because I can't pick the sea conditions I'll be in and with all other things being equal. I'll take bigger wider heavier and deeper every time.

 

[rsmith]

OK so a shorter lighter narrower boat is always the best choice in a nasty seaway. I'm glad you said that and I'll accept that as your opinion. This is why I never pay much attention to an anonymous person that goes on and on about all they're experience on the internet. Usually people that feel the need to do that don't have very good information. Oh and to answer your question I'd prefer an 82,000 lb boat with an 18' beam 4' 11" draft and a nice deep keel one built by a reputable manufacturer with a large production run like over 125. One with a very good reputation for offshore performance and this is just my preference but I'd like an enclosed bridge.

And just to be clear you can run into a sea condition were a smaller lighter narrower boat may do better than a larger heavier boat depending on the height and timing of the waves. But because I can't pick the sea conditions I'll be in and with all other things being equal. I'll take bigger wider heavier and deeper every time.

As best as I can determine what your saying is that my choice of this size vessel confirms my lack of experience and why my opinions hold no validity.

Be clear and don't parse your words my opinion of the smaller lighter boat is wrong and I don't know what I am talking about.

 

[sportfish 45]

As best as I can determine what your saying is that my choice of this size vessel confirms my lack of experience and why my opinions hold no validity.

Be clear and don't parse your words my opinion of the smaller lighter boat is wrong and I don't know what I am talking about.

I'm not parsing words I'm being careful because I have no first hand knowledge of your experience or lack of it. I'm simply giving you my opinion and saying that when your addressing a group of people on the internet trying to back up an opinion by citing your experience doesn't work. I believe if your argument is good it will stand on it's merits regardless of the writer's claims of experience.

I think your opinion that a smaller narrower lighter boat is a better choice than a larger heavier boat (all other things being equal) is in all but a few rare circustances is ridiculous. I think most would agree that crossing the Atlantic in a 46' 32,000 lb boat ( if it were even possible considering fuel capacity) Would be a much more risky endeavor than crossing in say a 150' boat with a 30' beam and a 12' draft displacing 200 tons. I think there is good reason why boats that deal with terrible conditions on a regular basis are usually long wide heavy and deep. For me it's so basic I'm surprised we're even talking about it.


I've been very direct with you in this exchange some feel to direct or rude. I did that because it's very obvious that you are also direct and I like that. I don't think we need to talk to each other like girl scouts. So no harm no foul I hope you feel the same.

 

[rsmith]

I'm not parsing words I'm being careful because I have no first hand knowledge of your experience or lack of it. I'm simply giving you my opinion and saying that when your addressing a group of people on the internet trying to back up an opinion by citing your experience doesn't work. I believe if your argument is good it will stand on it's merits regardless of the writer's claims of experience.

I think your opinion that a smaller narrower lighter boat is a better choice than a larger heavier boat (all other things being equal) is in all but a few rare circustances is ridiculous. I think most would agree that crossing the Atlantic in a 46' 32,000 lb boat ( if it were even possible considering fuel capacity) Would be a much more risky endeavor than crossing in say a 150' boat with a 30' beam and a 12' draft displacing 200 tons. I think there is good reason why boats that deal with terrible conditions on a regular basis are usually long wide heavy and deep. For me it's so basic I'm surprised we're even talking about it.


I've been very direct with you in this exchange some feel to direct or rude. I did that because it's very obvious that you are also direct and I like that. I don't think we need to talk to each other like girl scouts. So no harm no foul I hope you feel the same.

The specs I gave you were for the U.S. Coast guard 44' MLB a boat that was designed to operate in conditions that would put most of your picks on the bottom. So much for the validity of your opinions. I never once aluded to my experience as a mariner to draw conclusions as to the suitibility of the boats in question but my "experiences on the individual boats" I have always qualified my determinations as they are my opinion. Unlike you with your condecending and beligerant lies. I value your opinion as much as the pink squid in my bait freezer and get the feeling all your experience comes from reading magazines.
I suggest you do your self a favor find a oar and start walking inland until no one knows what is in your hand and that is where you should stay because with your attitude and overinflated opinion of your self you should stay off the open ocean. LMFAO

 

[sportfish 45]

The specs I gave you were for the U.S. Coast guard 44' MLB a boat that was designed to operate in conditions that would put most of your picks on the bottom. So much for the validity of your opinions. I never once aluded to my experience as a mariner to draw conclusions as to the suitibility of the boats in question but my "experiences on the individual boats" I have always qualified my determinations as they are my opinion. Unlike you with your condecending and beligerant lies. I value your opinion as much as the pink squid in my bait freezer and get the feeling all your experience comes from reading magazines.
I suggest you do your self a favor find a oar and start walking inland until no one knows what is in your hand and that is where you should stay because with your attitude and overinflated opinion of your self you should stay off the open ocean. LMFAO

A CG 44 MLB a boat designed for rescue purposes a boat that can withstand a 360 degree roll. My comments were in response to your opinion that a 46 Hatt was a better choice than a 60 in nasty wether remember you said they were a better choice because they're lighter and will stay on top. Here are your words in case you forgot.

"If I had my choice to lay off shore in nasty weather would be the 46. It has higher freeboard so you don't take waves in the cockpit and its lighter and bobs over the waves"

I didn't think we were talking about a purpose built boat like the 44 MLBs and neither did you. You've now become desperate and sound even more foolish than you did earlier. I think your most recent comments speak volumes about your knowledge of boats and your judgement in general. Now I'm hoping that you were lying about all your experience because the thought of you running a boat with paying passengers in anything but a lily pond is freightning.

 

[Man Hatt'n']

My opinion is that both of you should go sit a corner until you can play nice. Howard