Forum Guidelines

[Bob Bradley]

Looks like cabin fever has kicked in with a vengeance around here. Why don't we all just take a deep breath, bite our tongues, and step away from the computer for a while. Hell, go ice fishing if that's what it takes. But there seems to be a whole lot of growing up needed around here.

 

[Flick]

I enjoy this forum and have gained a great deal of knowledge from it. I don't participate much, just read.
My opinion is real simple - Hate the politics. Lets stick to Hatteras and boating related topics! I know I don't have to read it but I just hate the fact that it is here.

 

[Canuck Dennis]

It is healthy and good to see strong minded men posting their opinions on this issue here, a healthy debate is much better than pussyfooting around the issue, yes, even raised tempers are healthy, supression is the key to lethargy.

perhaps the way to stop political discussions on here is to put in key words by the mods that will kill the post, i.e. potus, freedom, working, etc etc ...have a laugh guys, life is too short .

My new gen set is ready for shipping...whooppeee.....

 

[Boatsb]

I think if we all refrain from posting our opinions this site will be very quiet. So quiet that it would probably die off.

We all have opinions on things from engine manufactures to politics. It is all interconnected and always will be. To keep it in a PG rated fashion is all we really need to do.

 

[Craig]

I entirely disagree and this has, in the last few months, gone beyond The Sandbar as well and into the so-called "Technical" areas.

I have received PMs from people who simply won't help around here any more, and frankly, I can't say I blame them. I've got a very thick skin (comes from being on the 'Net since it was pushed around over dial-up phone lines at 1200bps) so it's nothing new to me, but some of the behavior is just plain deplorable - and not just in here.

As I explained to one complainant Doug makes the rules - those of us who help moderate simply enforce them. That's all. If someone brings an issue to Doug and doesn't get the answer they want (or any at all!) coming to one of us after that is a waste of time - you got your answer from the big cheese, and we're little cheese. I'm certainly not going to step in that which Doug has decided not to!

I do, however, entirely disagree with the position that "one should just not read." Sorry - this is not your forum, it's Sam's forum. It reflects on the company and the firm has a right to set the rules of participation as it sees fit. We who try to keep up with this don't do a perfect job nor can we be expected to - we don't have omniscience - nobody does. But the rules are here, they're pretty clear and while I kind of like The Sandbar I also think it has become in some instances a tool of divisiveness and that's not cool. If you really want a place to run that sort of banter set up your own forum and attract your own userbase. It's not as easy as it looks.

My 2 cents FWIW.

I had originally intended to address the above posting in a PM, obviously, after reading this thread, I changed my mind.

As I am the one being refered to about going to Doug, then going to a moderator. First off, I did not go to Doug and then to a moderator, I did email Doug about a similar incident, but did not PM a moderator because Doug did not respond.

I not only received a rude reaction, including cussing in the PM from the moderator. Everyone pretty much knows I don't care for cussing in a public forum, cussing in response to a PM, is just down right ignorant and rude. I cuss just as much anyone else, but there are times and places when it is uncalled for.

The comment about advertisement is interesting. I agree there is no outright advertisement, but posting a link to your business oriented blog, is merely a detour around the rules. Suffice to say Genesis is not the only moderator using this type of manuver.

I expect this thread to be closed and/or removed just like the non Hatteras related thread on nav software, a move i will probably never understand, but do have my suspicions. After all some are not agreeing with a moderator.

In closing, People who live in glass house should not cavort about naked on the piano.

 

[Freeebird]

Heck, I'm just happy that this isn't just about me this time.

Come on guys, don't let this thing get out of hand. Using decent language on here should be a given even though I saw a mod drop an F bomb a few weeks ago. As for personal attacks, those seem to be hard to define, but the "old" guys seem to have found a way to make them OK. All you need to do is close your attack thread with a big thank you to Sam's. Yes, I'm being a bit sarcastic, but you know it's true.

Now then, who wants to talk about boats?

 

[jojoe]

As a relative by-stander.....I still feel the need to contibute to this discussion. I looked at the profiles for both Brian Degulis (sp) and for Craig. They both joined in 2006. craig has 380 posts in that time where as Brian has almost 3,000. I feel that contribution should be taken into consideration or else we will become a gestapo as was referred to on an earlier post. I give the owner of this forum the right to do as he sees fit. But to be fair about it. If you ban Brian shouldn't you also ban Craig or Genesis? It seems to me that alot of this could be avoided if Genesis or Craig did not open their mouths. jj

 

[Boatsb]

And Brian owns 2 hatts.

This is an owners forum isn't it?

 

[Craig]

As a relative by-stander.....I still feel the need to contibute to this discussion. I looked at the profiles for both Brian Degulis (sp) and for Craig. They both joined in 2006. craig has 380 posts in that time where as Brian has almost 3,000. I feel that contribution should be taken into consideration or else we will become a gestapo as was referred to on an earlier post. I give the owner of this forum the right to do as he sees fit. But to be fair about it. If you ban Brian shouldn't you also ban Craig or Genesis? It seems to me that alot of this could be avoided if Genesis or Craig did not open their mouths. jj

You have a very good point JJ, true I do not post often, I try to keep my posts to a minumum, until recently I used to stick pretty much to the tecnical forum, lately I have been involved in this section, big mistake on my part for sure. I have complained about foul language, disagreed with a thread move, and been sarcasic on occasion, when I feel someone is either out of line, on acting a bit uninformed.

I have owned many boats in my life, my hatteras I have owned for about 17 years, I do all my own work, and have always managed to get problems solved. I think the forum is a great idea, I have learned many new things on it. If they wish to band me for my above actions, so be it, my transgressions pale in comparrison to many I have seen on here.

I don't like cussing of any form in a public forum, I abhore name calling, and reffering to someones intelligence, or lack thereof etc., and I do none of the above.

 

[GJH]

I don't see any connection between engines and politics or societal issues whatsoever. They sure don't talk about Detroits and Allisons on the political forums! There are endless boating and cruising stories to tell and discuss to fill the void.

Personally, I'd love this to be a forum open to all boaters of all sensitivities. Frankly a lot of posts here reflect badly on the character of the poster, and discredit what may be good advice on the technical side whether you think it should or not. You look at some of this stuff and say, gosh, I'm sure gonna make a point of not going to raft up with that guy!

There are only maybe 5 or 6 posters that start the political and societal threads, in clear violation of the guideline Doug has had posted here for a long time. Some of them (well, maybe 1 or 2) have valuable boating related information or opinions to contribute. The answer is not to ban them, but for them simply to stop posting this stuff. Y'know, exercise some of that personal responsibility and self control we all like to scold others about not having....

 

[DeeRow]

....As for the some of the childishness and sniping that goes on, yeah it seems to be the same 4 or 5. If I was King of the forum, if I had my company name associated with this, I'd bounce them, but I'm not. So the best I can do is try to ignore them.

I agree that the quickest way to get the forum back on track is to remove the biggest "violators" to the forum guidelines. It is interesting that some of these "violators" believe that the forum exists only because they respond.

There is an incredible wealth of experience here. Very rarely is there only one way to address any issue. The best solution to all problems is often developed from the best of everyone's experience. This true for boating issues as well as political issues. But to find the best solution, there must be open COMMUNICATION. Personal attacks shutdown communication.

If a post does not add value to a thread, don't post.

Mark

 

[Freeebird]

I don't see any connection between engines and politics or societal issues whatsoever. They sure don't talk about Detroits and Allisons on the political forums! There are endless boating and cruising stories to tell and discuss to fill the void.

Would you care to expand on your "societal issues" comment?

Not everyone who participates in political forums are boaters, but most boaters talk politics with other boaters. With that, I think your analogy falls a little short of the mark.

As for sharing boating and cruising stories, until this section was opened, that too was considered improper. I would love nothing more than to read boating and cruising stories on here, so I'm all ears on this one. I personally hate politics, but it makes for interesting discussion as long as it doesn't get personal.

 

[Boatsb]

"I don't see any connection between engines and politics or societal issues whatsoever. They sure don't talk about Detroits and Allisons on the political forums! There are endless boating and cruising stories to tell and discuss to fill the void."

The point is that we all have opinions and there is always going to be differences in what we believe. Behaving like children is one thing. Discussing differences of opinion without personal attacks is another.

I stand by the measure that it should be something that our 10 year old children should be able to read without censorship. Cursing, Name calling and all the other BS aside my son behaves better than some on here.

I may be one of the posters considered an instigator but I do not believe I have ever used a word that was part of George Carlin's routine.

 

[Genesis]

Karl, with all due respect, why would anyone (other than a moderator) choose a bi-partisan approach when discussing politics?

With all due respect what does inciting partisan hatred serve on a BOATING forum?

This isn't about being a moderator (or not.) It is about intentionally attacking and inciting other people for whatever sort of motivation one can dream up to "justify" that behavior. It's over the line, it has gotten progressively worse, and it's not just here - I recently had to STOMP on it over on my forum as well.

I respect and understand that stress levels in society have risen a LOT in the last couple of years. The clue-by-four about ponzi economics (in a bi-partisan fashion) impacting one's cranium can incite that sort of response.

But that doesn't change the fact that Sams put this forum here for the primary purpose of discussing HATTERAS BOATS, including the social aspects of owning one, and that The Sandbar is primarily about those social aspects.

Sharing one's life joys and sorrows is also part of the comraderie of boating generally and Hatts (we hope) in particular, but in recent months The Sandbar has become a place with too much focus on divisiveness and intentional incitement. Look at the title of this subforum - "Cruising, Rendezvous, Clubs, Shows and General Boating Discussions."

There are two deleted threads on the top page (which I can see but you can't) and a handful that are intentional political jabs, including one (on my second page) that went 153 replies with several serial "back to top" type posts that were one-line links to partisan political hackery.

Yes, I tried to provide some reasoned balance in that thread, so I'm guilty - I posted in it. But it didn't calm or balance things, it just drew even more.

Look folks, there are plenty of places on The Internet to run that sort of thing if you want to. Democratic Underground is a notorious one, and there are many others on BOTH sides of the aisle.

This forum has been declared "not one of those places" by the guy who owns the joint, and Doug just asked (at the top of this thread) for people to cut it out. My job is to provide enforcement and the "in your face" challenge to that deserved, IMHO, a warning that such, which in this case included a thinly-veiled threat, was not going to continue to go unanswered.

If Doug considers my action unacceptable he can of course reverse my decision. He's the one ultimately in charge here and has empowered a handful of us to enforce what he has set down. If linking to my home page (which happens to have my resume posted on it) is considered 'shilling' in Doug's opinion I'll remove it without complaint - it's purpose is for people to be able to find me if they would like outside of the forum itself. It is IMHO no more a "commercial enterprise" than is someone having their Facebook page list that they work for Frobozz corporation.

Finally, for the record, Craig's PM to me was NOT what I was referring to up above (yes, I get a lot of PMs), but if he wishes to put a shoe on his own foot he's welcome to do so. I used the word "bull$$$$" - after being badgered when a lateral "let's try someone else!" game didn't get the response he was looking for and his response to me impugned both the other mod AND Doug.

'Nuff said.

 

[Freeebird]

Karl, just to clarify my use of the "moderator" term, I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to someone who would be responsible for presenting both sides of an argument or seeing that both sides had equal opportunity to state their case. As you said, 'nuff said.

 

[Craig]

I have no problem with people discussing politics, or anything else for that matter. I do have a problem with the cursing, name calling, and references to intelligence.

As for suggesting that somone should keep their mouth shut, well.... at the risk of sounding political, that's the way obamah is trying to handle Foxnews.

Questioning someone about a decision they made, the last time I checked is allowed in a democracy, one of the things that makes us the greatest in the world.

BTW, what does the number of posts have to do with this subject?

 

[GJH]

Would you care to expand on your "societal issues" comment?

Not everyone who participates in political forums are boaters, but most boaters talk politics with other boaters. With that, I think your analogy falls a little short of the mark.

As for sharing boating and cruising stories, until this section was opened, that too was considered improper. I would love nothing more than to read boating and cruising stories on here, so I'm all ears on this one. I personally hate politics, but it makes for interesting discussion as long as it doesn't get personal.

Societal issues would be things like the perceived behavior of various ethnic classes, abortion, education, and arguably anything else not directly boating related.

I disagree, we boat almost full time up and down the entire east coast, and political discussions are avoided, indeed anything that can raise bad emotional responses. When people come on board the first time socially, we always announce "no shoes, no politics!" Boating is about having fun, sharing knowledge and experiences. I think about as far afield as we get with strangers is sports, maybe talking about our kids a little. Since I consider food to be boating related, food and places to get food definitely count!

But really, the guideline here has been stated pretty simply, why not stay within it?

 

[Canuck Dennis]

So, if someone loses their job and is in danger of losing their prized Hatteras, we are not supposed to discuss the "political " reasons that got him to that spot...mmmmmmmmm....well, put head in sand, that's close to boating related. lol..

 

[Passages]

But really, the guideline here has been stated pretty simply, why not stay within it?

'nuff said.

 

[Craig]

I had originally intended to address the above posting in a PM, obviously, after reading this thread, I changed my mind.

As I am the one being refered to about going to Doug, then going to a moderator. First off, I did not go to Doug and then to a moderator, I did email Doug about a similar incident, but did not PM a moderator because Doug did not respond.

I not only received a rude reaction, including cussing in the PM from the moderator. Everyone pretty much knows I don't care for cussing in a public forum, cussing in response to a PM, is just down right ignorant and rude. I cuss just as much anyone else, but there are times and places when it is uncalled for.

The comment about advertisement is interesting. I agree there is no outright advertisement, but posting a link to your business oriented blog, is merely a detour around the rules. Suffice to say Genesis is not the only moderator using this type of manuver.

I expect this thread to be closed and/or removed just like the non Hatteras related thread on nav software, a move i will probably never understand, but do have my suspicions. After all some are not agreeing with a moderator.

In closing, People who live in glass house should not cavort about naked on the piano.

In rethinking this post, and communicating with Genesis, it appears I have made an imbarrassing mistake.

Not thinking someone else may share my views. I assumed his reference to telling someone about going to the administrator, then to a moderator. I sincerely appologize to Genesis and anyone who may taken offense to my comments. I can understand now why he thought I was doing such a thing.

I assure you, my intent was not to go to a moderator after PMing Doug. I did spend time in the military and I am familiar with the chain of command.

Again my sincerest appologies.