Forum Guidelines

[administrator]

In the past several months I have received several emails and PM's pertaining to forum activity - especially as it relates to the Everything Else Sandbar content. I've had members complain about other members behavior. I've had members complain that there is too much moderation. I've had members complain that there is not enough moderation leading to total forum degradation. I've had members complain about liberal views which were out of line. I've had members complain about conservative views which were out of line. I've had complaints about the blatant use of profanity. I've had users threathen to stop purchasing from Sam's Marine because the fact that certain content appears on the forum means we obviously must endorse it.

Fortunately, I've also received a lot of positive feedback on how useful and appreciated the HOF is.

As a result, I've considered several options. Among them being:

- restructuring the forum (which I do not want to do)
- increasing moderation (which I do not want to do)
- prohibiting all political threads (which I do not want to do)
- eliminating the Everything Else section of the forum altogehter (which I do not want to do)

Unfortunately, I do not have the time to closely monitor forum content - nor do I want to. When the forum originated, I asked three of the members if they would help to insure that everyone follow the guidelines to a reasonable degree and watch for spam and they were kind enough to agree which is greatly appreciated.


I've decided that for the time being, I am simply going to ask once again for everyone to conduct themselves as adults, be civil, stop the he said - she said nonsense, re-read the forum guidelines below and adhere to them.

If that does not work, I will unfortunately have to look for other options.

Not only is this site linked from the Sam's Marine web site, it is also linked directly from the Hatteras Yachts web site and other dealer sites which helps new owners locate this forum and Sam's Marine as a source for parts and service which helps us stay in business and subsequently provide a forum such as this. I would like for it to remain this way.

I sincerely thank you for your cooperation.

The forum guidelines are listed below.


HATTERAS OWNERS FORUM ACCEPTABLE USE POLICY & GUIDELINES

Listed below are some expectations that users will be held to when using this forum.

Purpose

The Hatteras Owners forum was created for Hatteras owners (past, present, & future) and others throughout the Hatteras community as a place where members can learn and share. Current ownership of a Hatteras is not a requirement for registration or participation.


Posting Guidelines

We ask that you follow basic "netiquette guidelines" when using the forums.

• We recommend reading messages in a particular forum group for a while before posting. This will acquaint you with the discussions taking place, other participants, and the general tone of the group. Much like joining a conversation at a party, listening first and talking second will result in a better experience for everyone. That said, however, don't be afraid to participate! The true value of this forum is in the discussions that take place and the people participating in them!

• Search before posting - Please try to use the search feature on the forum prior to starting a new topic. There’s a good chance you’ll find a past thread on the issue you are interested in.

• Refrain from using vulgar or off-color language or posting offensive, racist or insulting messages. This forum is sponsored by Sam’s Marine and as a result, the forum content can reflect upon our company and to some degree that of the manufacturer. Your understanding and consideration of this fact is sincerely appreciated.

• Please "try" to keep topics related to Hatteras and boating. Occasional digressions are quite OK, but they should be the exception and not the rule.

• Advertisements or public solicitations by vendors for goods or services are not allowed in the forums. Businesses within the Hatteras community are welcome and encouraged to participate and contribute to the discussions at hand, but flagrant advertisements and solicitations are not allowed.

• If a conflict arises with another member - TAKE IT OFFLINE. The forum and the Sandbar is meant to be a place where members of the Hatteras community can help one another - not a place for public controversy.

• Bashing of vendors or members is prohibited. If you feel the need to comment about a negative experience associated with a vendor, take it offline and do it privately. There can be legal ramifications associated with public defamation.

• Try to avoid thread clutter caused by unnecessary one-liner replies that do not add value to the thread. Remember too that you can use the forum Private Message function for these type of replies which do not add anything useful to the topic being discussed.

• A minor point but one that may be worth mentioning for members who are new to such discussion groups – please avoid using “all caps” when posting as this is sometimes interpreted by other members as shouting and can make posts more difficult to read.

• Posting personal emails or private messages to the public forum is expressly prohibited and grounds for immediate suspension of forum priviledges.

Moderators monitor the forums and reserve the right to delete any message, without notice, that does not follow these guidelines. A violation of the Forums Acceptable Use Policy constitutes "unauthorized use" and may result in termination of your privileges with repeated offenses. We extend our sincere thanks for following the guidelines above and for the content contributions which have made this forum a success.

 

[DCMY #92]

I think you have taken the right decision. Hopefully everyone will stow their strong political views and comply with your request.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I think you have taken the right decision. Hopefully everyone will stow their strong political views and comply with your request.

The problem goes beyond politics. There are some that frequent this site that just have to make personal attacks on others. No one deserves to be treated like that whether they are a member or a moderator. We all know those that just banter back and forth on any subject and it's always the same culprits. It shouldn't be that way and it was never a problem in the early days of the forum. Reign in the "problem children" and the all will be well. Leave them to continue this and they tend to get others involved in the same type of behavior(including myself on occasion).

That's just my personal observation and I may be wrong. Hopefully they will heed the warning from Doug and shape up on their own. I know I'll think twice before I get involved in any of that.

Thanks again to Doug and staff for a great site.

 

[yachtsmanbill]

I know that I am not without sin, so I cannot cast the first stone...
I hafta agree with this issue as well, and I know in the past that Ive no doubt offended some others, but after being admonished, have moved on. Some guys go on and on, and even Ppat who is new here has mentioned what a wee-wee contest some of the threds have turned into.
As most know, I really enjoy working on the Sub and sharing success (??) stories as well, but cant hang around when the stuff goes political, and then degrades from there. I also enjoy others' constructive comments about what we are accomplishing and really want to see this forum move on to better avenues...
Now, if some one would only loosen these buckles on my straight jacket...Enjoy it here before its gone guys, believe you me, MOST of the other forums are for the losers that do not have a life... ws

 

[Passages]

I would be ok with banning politics. Nothing good seems to come from those threads.

 

[The Hedgehog]

First of all, as a relative newbie I would like to thank you for this forum. Lots of great info here and it seems like there are some great folks.

I know that all of the negative banter is not necessarily politically based. On the other hand, political differences seem to bring out our worst. I am probably no exception.

I started a thread on a similar issue on 1/22/10. I was told to simply not read those threads. I can do that. I do feel that we all probably have some good to contribute regardless of our political beliefs and if we can set those differences aside, we will all get along better.

At the end of the day we are all boaters and should enjoy what we have in common.

 

[Brian Degulis]

I understand what they're trying to do and it might be OK if they don't go to far with it. If they do and that often happens, then you turn a forum into a sterile place that's not very interesting and you lose viewers and participants. No one is offended but less information is generated not a good thing. Certainly racism sexism foul language has to be taken out that's obvious. But if you start saying an argument is not allowed or zapping people because they're manners aren't up to par IMHO everybody loses. That would be catering to people that complain about political threads or arguments and those complaints should be ignored simply because those people doing the complaining would have to be reading those threads at they're own free will. I mean if you don't like what your reading then stop reading it that's pretty basic. Especially here where threads are titled so most are obvious if you come across a thread that changed course into something you don't like then stop reading it and you won't or shouldn't be offended.

Arguments bring out facts and logic that otherwise might not come out that's why our criminal justice system is nothing more than a controlled argument. Granted there isn't any controlling it here but if it's to much for you don't view it or participate and it will die a quick death on it's own. Controversial people are interesting just look at the views they draw. Creative people are different by nature and often get bored quickly in an overly controlled environment. If you push out those controversial and creative people in an attempt to make it civil and appease a few cry babies then you may degrade what your trying to improve.


Brian

 

[captddis]

I'M with Brian. If you're sensitivities are easily offended the sloution is simple, stay in the tech section. You can spend 20 pages discussing oil. If you like to be like most boaters who discuss a wide range of topics, and sometimes disagree, but still have fun, visit the everything else section.

Above all be an adult and don't go whining to Doug.

 

[Genesis]

I entirely disagree and this has, in the last few months, gone beyond The Sandbar as well and into the so-called "Technical" areas.

I have received PMs from people who simply won't help around here any more, and frankly, I can't say I blame them. I've got a very thick skin (comes from being on the 'Net since it was pushed around over dial-up phone lines at 1200bps) so it's nothing new to me, but some of the behavior is just plain deplorable - and not just in here.

As I explained to one complainant Doug makes the rules - those of us who help moderate simply enforce them. That's all. If someone brings an issue to Doug and doesn't get the answer they want (or any at all!) coming to one of us after that is a waste of time - you got your answer from the big cheese, and we're little cheese. I'm certainly not going to step in that which Doug has decided not to!

I do, however, entirely disagree with the position that "one should just not read." Sorry - this is not your forum, it's Sam's forum. It reflects on the company and the firm has a right to set the rules of participation as it sees fit. We who try to keep up with this don't do a perfect job nor can we be expected to - we don't have omniscience - nobody does. But the rules are here, they're pretty clear and while I kind of like The Sandbar I also think it has become in some instances a tool of divisiveness and that's not cool. If you really want a place to run that sort of banter set up your own forum and attract your own userbase. It's not as easy as it looks.

My 2 cents FWIW.

 

[GJH]

I think the supposed mission of "Everything Else" should be held to what is stated:

"Cruising, Rendezvous, Clubs, Shows, & General Boating Discussions"

I try to ignore the non-boating stuff in the Sandbar, but don't always succeed. Overall, I don't see the point of non-boating related threads, especially political and societal on this forum. There are thousands of places for that on the Internet.

At least over at BoaterEd and THT, they have explicitly segregated sections, "Not Boating Related" and " Bilge" for political stuff.

As for the some of the childishness and sniping that goes on, yeah it seems to be the same 4 or 5. If I was King of the forum, if I had my company name associated with this, I'd bounce them, but I'm not. So the best I can do is try to ignore them.

 

[holtcl]

So glad to see that others are as fed up the the political discussions as I am. I had developed a rant/thread a few weeks ago specifically about this, but hit the cancel button before posting because I didn't want to stir up a hornet's nest.

I completely agree with the the others' sentiments that this is not the place for it. If folk want to talk politics, there are plenty of appropriate places on the web to do that.

 

[captddis]

I entirely disagree and this has, in the last few months, gone beyond The Sandbar as well and into the so-called "Technical" areas.

I have received PMs from people who simply won't help around here any more, and frankly, I can't say I blame them. I've got a very thick skin (comes from being on the 'Net since it was pushed around over dial-up phone lines at 1200bps) so it's nothing new to me, but some of the behavior is just plain deplorable - and not just in here.

As I explained to one complainant Doug makes the rules - those of us who help moderate simply enforce them. That's all. If someone brings an issue to Doug and doesn't get the answer they want (or any at all!) coming to one of us after that is a waste of time - you got your answer from the big cheese, and we're little cheese. I'm certainly not going to step in that which Doug has decided not to!

I do, however, entirely disagree with the position that "one should just not read." Sorry - this is not your forum, it's Sam's forum. It reflects on the company and the firm has a right to set the rules of participation as it sees fit. We who try to keep up with this don't do a perfect job nor can we be expected to - we don't have omniscience - nobody does. But the rules are here, they're pretty clear and while I kind of like The Sandbar I also think it has become in some instances a tool of divisiveness and that's not cool. If you really want a place to run that sort of banter set up your own forum and attract your own userbase. It's not as easy as it looks.

My 2 cents FWIW.

Yes it is Dougs forum, but without people who visit and post, there would not be a forum. i don't post in the tech section like I used too because you can't answer a question without having your answer over analyzed to death by those who have never even done what was asked.

Karl, You are one of the reasons why people don't post because of your snide commentaries. If you have a different take on something, than just give YOUR answer and leave out the ROFL's etc...

 

[Jaxfishgyd]

I come here for boating information and help.

If I wanted politics (and I don't) I would go to CNBC or FOX or some other site..

 

[captddis]

I think the supposed mission of "Everything Else" should be held to what is stated:

"Cruising, Rendezvous, Clubs, Shows, & General Boating Discussions"

I try to ignore the non-boating stuff in the Sandbar, but don't always succeed. Overall, I don't see the point of non-boating related threads, especially political and societal on this forum. There are thousands of places for that on the Internet.

At least over at BoaterEd and THT, they have explicitly segregated sections, "Not Boating Related" and " Bilge" for political stuff.

As for the some of the childishness and sniping that goes on, yeah it seems to be the same 4 or 5. If I was King of the forum, if I had my company name associated with this, I'd bounce them, but I'm not. So the best I can do is try to ignore them.

I enjoy the THT bilge, it is a source of entertainment. However despite the warnings and you being required to agree that you understand there will be off color topics. the girls still complain and try to get it shutdown.

Political correctness is killing us.

 

[Brian Degulis]

I entirely disagree and this has, in the last few months, gone beyond The Sandbar as well and into the so-called "Technical" areas.

I have received PMs from people who simply won't help around here any more, and frankly, I can't say I blame them. I've got a very thick skin (comes from being on the 'Net since it was pushed around over dial-up phone lines at 1200bps) so it's nothing new to me, but some of the behavior is just plain deplorable - and not just in here.

As I explained to one complainant Doug makes the rules - those of us who help moderate simply enforce them. That's all. If someone brings an issue to Doug and doesn't get the answer they want (or any at all!) coming to one of us after that is a waste of time - you got your answer from the big cheese, and we're little cheese. I'm certainly not going to step in that which Doug has decided not to!

I do, however, entirely disagree with the position that "one should just not read." Sorry - this is not your forum, it's Sam's forum. It reflects on the company and the firm has a right to set the rules of participation as it sees fit. We who try to keep up with this don't do a perfect job nor can we be expected to - we don't have omniscience - nobody does. But the rules are here, they're pretty clear and while I kind of like The Sandbar I also think it has become in some instances a tool of divisiveness and that's not cool. If you really want a place to run that sort of banter set up your own forum and attract your own userbase. It's not as easy as it looks.

My 2 cents FWIW.

It's interesting to hear you complain about bad manners and being divisive considering your pretty good at it and practice it regularly. It's interesting to hear you speak of following the rules of the forum considering one rule is " Advertisements or public solicitations by vendors for goods or services are not allowed in the forums" and everything you post contains a link to some of the goods and services you sell.



Brian

 

[Genesis]

It's interesting to hear you complain about bad manners and being divisive considering your pretty good at it and practice it regularly. It's interesting to hear you speak of following the rules of the forum considering one rule is " Advertisements or public solicitations by vendors for goods or services are not allowed in the forums" and everything you post contains a link to some of the goods and services you sell.

Brian

This sort of outright falsehood is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

I don't advertise "goods and services" for sale here in ANYTHING I post.

The link to my blog is not "something for sale" - the price for viewing it is ZERO. My home page is, well, my home page. I sell nothing there either.

If you're wondering why I don't bother trying to help people here much any more, this sort of outrageous falsehood and personal attack is the reason. This is exactly the same complaint I have fielded several of via PM as well.

It is Doug's decision as to whether this sort of thing will be tolerated or not, but so long as it is there is little reason for me to continue to try to be of help to people with their HATTERAS questions, since each and every one of those attempts to help draws attacks exactly like this.

Thank you for making my point in bold, black ink.

 

[Freeebird]

Man, it would be so easy to get sucked into this one, but I'm going to pass.

Doug, I assume you are looking for input by posting this thread, so here goes. Would it be that difficult to have another section of this forum which is password protected or simply requires an acknowledgement of acceptance of terms before being allowed to enter?

I'm not suggesting an unmoderated, "anything goes" type section, but boaters do tend to talk about things other than boating, especially when they get to know each other on a more personal level. Let's face it, today's politics may well change the face of boating as we know it. Given that, it's not a stretch to say politics is boating related. Such a section would keep controversial or non-boating topics out of public view.

 

[Brian Degulis]

Karl on your home page there are links to software and technical services. Both are products that all or in part you offer for sale. I've checked them out and could post your replies and offers for paid services if you like. Below is a description of one of the links.

What it implies; if you're curious about who I am, what I've done and what I can do for your firm this is the place. If you're an ISP and need to get control of people abusing your system for spamming, want a custom billing and account management system that will free your time for more productive endeavors, or are a corporate site that needs to have a security review done or a high-security firewall implemented, you've come to the right guy. Use the below "click-link" to contact me

Be carefull if your suggesting that service is free to all.


Brian

 

[Genesis]

Brian, this is a total load of crap and this sort of HARASSMENT is exactly what Doug is talking about.

You've spent a couple of WEEKS posting links to Fox News stories with one intent - partisan BS. Now you come in this thread and try to play personal attack and BS games - the same ones you've raised in other threads and elsewhere.

I've made a decision on this and if Doug disagrees, he's welcome to overrule me.

 

[Freeebird]

Karl, with all due respect, why would anyone (other than a moderator) choose a bi-partisan approach when discussing politics?