Boats for sale section is quiet!

[SeaEric]

So is the boat market in general since the financial fertilizer hit the political ventilator. <sigh>

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I believe it. I just sold my dad's Prevost bus on ebay and the buyer is having trouble with financing. Hopefully the deal won't fall through.

 

[Genesis]

The lending that has been done in the past is not coming back.

If you're reliant on easy credit - that is, credit without significant down payments and terms that reasonably reflect actual risk - you're cooked.

 

[Walter P]

Read Warren Buffets new Biography.. good read. His philosophy regarding debt is simple.... Don't assume more than you can handle in a pinch.

On a brighter note,,,, (for potential buyers.....Jim?) A surveyer friend and I were talking this afternoon and he told me about a 52' Hatteras Conv., with tower and 8/92's in what at least looked to be in pretty good shape that the owner needs to get out of NOW. He's looking for 75 or 80 Grand. Not certain of the age, but they were made from 1984 - 1991. It looks like bargins are sprouting up all over the place.. too bad I'm not buying.

If anybody is interested, contact me and I'll put you in touch with my friend who has talked to the owner.

Walt

 

[SeaEric]

The issue seems not to be the boat loans. My lenders tell me that with decent credit and a 10 to 20% downstroke, its done. Many of my customers pay cash anyway. The issue is reluctance on the part of the buyers to move ahead with a purchase. Perhaps after the election is over, things will begin to settle down. I agree that there have been some amazing deals, already scooped up.

The power boat show in Annapolis starts today. I'm not going- haven't been in ages. We advertise there and get folks coming to our location from the show anyway. What I'm interested in seeing is the success (or not) of the show in Ft Lauderdale. I'm meeting 3 customers there to look for boats. All 3 are active buyers. It will be interesting to see if one or more of them buys a boat.

 

[whaler23]

Eric,

What's the feedback on attendance at the Sailboat Show? What's anticipated for the Powerboats? Any dock traffic lately?

 

[Genesis]

Eric, if you're putting 20% on the table you can get financed.

However, for years the zero-down boat loan on new boats has been "fast and easy" - no more. Those are simply not available any more (and IMO never should have been in the first place.)

Cash buyers of course have a huge advantage in a market like this, especially if you run into a distressed seller!

 

[captddis]

I am not Warren Buffet, but I only buy luxury items [boats] that I can pay for cash. That way I own it and don't have to worry about paying for it if things slow down.

 

[dcate]

It would be interesting to know how many of Hatteras' are selling now, as compared to say, last year (and the year before that, etc)

From only this propective buyer's perspective, now is not the time to be buyin' into very il-liquid assets. I've got the cash, and I've looked at a few '53' MY's (the boat I'd like to have). MY problem is....

I'm not affluent enough to be able to put ANY asset "on the books" so-to-speak without at least SOME sort of "exit strategy". Without at least SOME idea of what an asset will bring in any given amount of time, I cannot bring myself to purchase it. And it's almost impossible for me to know what an exit strategy would look like with one of these yachts.

I believe alot of owners of these yachts are well-heeled to the point that they just don't care. They'd rather it sit than to take the hit that's required to sell one right now.

Maybe if one doesnt' have a quarter mil that he can "strike a match to" and not ever miss it, then he can't afford one of these boats?

 

[dcate]

In simpler terms...I don't mind "payin' to play" and losing money. What I do mind is not having any idea how much I WILL (or can) lose. or, maybe

 

[SKYCHENEY]

It would be interesting to know how many of Hatteras' are selling now, as compared to say, last year (and the year before that, etc)

From only this propective buyer's perspective, now is not the time to be buyin' into very il-liquid assets. I've got the cash, and I've looked at a few '53' MY's (the boat I'd like to have). MY problem is....

I'm not affluent enough to be able to put ANY asset "on the books" so-to-speak without at least SOME sort of "exit strategy". Without at least SOME idea of what an asset will bring in any given amount of time, I cannot bring myself to purchase it. And it's almost impossible for me to know what an exit strategy would look like with one of these yachts.

I believe alot of owners of these yachts are well-heeled to the point that they just don't care. They'd rather it sit than to take the hit that's required to sell one right now.

Maybe if one doesnt' have a quarter mil that he can "strike a match to" and not ever miss it, then he can't afford one of these boats?

Once you actually own a 53MY, you will have no reason to sell her. This is not an investment. It is a passion. Don't worry about what it's worth to someone else, because after you own her, she will always be worth more to you than anyone is willing to pay no matter what the market is.

 

[spindrift]

Passed on the 1980 53 MY in early September in Annapolis for $175K. The Admial was not sure. Just looked at another 53MY in NJ today in an estate. Offered the seller a clean cash deal..at 75% of ask. What I find amazing is that the widow's son in law, against the advice of the broker, is blowing us off. It is interesting when I the son in law told the Admiral and me that his mother in law is picking up all the checks for the boat's expenses, they are going to put in the boat in the barn at the yard again, drop another $20k over the winter. They only took the boat out twice this summer (day only). He doesn't really seem to care. A sad situation, the widow won't even set foot on the boat as it was too big a part of the husband's life.

This situation makes me want to make sure that my attorney, not my kids, handles all estate decisions after I am gone! The Admiral is 10 year younger than me so a situation like this is likely.

On another note, we bailed out of most of our stock in early June. The Admiral was in the market a week ago Friday when it was down 500 point buying like mad... she love Caterpillar,P&G and J&J. ! If she doesn't get this Hatt, I think she will just keep adding to her stock position every 30 days!

Cheers
Spin

 

[Brian Degulis]

It would be interesting to know how many of Hatteras' are selling now, as compared to say, last year (and the year before that, etc)

From only this propective buyer's perspective, now is not the time to be buyin' into very il-liquid assets. I've got the cash, and I've looked at a few '53' MY's (the boat I'd like to have). MY problem is....

I'm not affluent enough to be able to put ANY asset "on the books" so-to-speak without at least SOME sort of "exit strategy". Without at least SOME idea of what an asset will bring in any given amount of time, I cannot bring myself to purchase it. And it's almost impossible for me to know what an exit strategy would look like with one of these yachts.

I believe alot of owners of these yachts are well-heeled to the point that they just don't care. They'd rather it sit than to take the hit that's required to sell one right now.

Maybe if one doesnt' have a quarter mil that he can "strike a match to" and not ever miss it, then he can't afford one of these boats?

Your right most of the Hats on the market don't have to be sold. The owner will sell if he can get his number whatever that may be if not he doesn't sell it because he doesn't have to. Few if any of these boats are selling. What's selling is the boats that must be sold owners that are willing to reduce they're price to market conditions.

If I were in your shoes I would simply keep looking and be ready with cash in hand. If you can find the boat you want that must be sold you will be able to buy it for today's value. You would improve your chances a lot by being flexible in your search.

If you do find something you like that must be sold and you can buy it at today's value then the only way you can really be hurt is if values go down a lot more and stay there. I guess that's possible but I think it's un likely that your going to see the "steals" get much lower.

Brian

 

[spindrift]

Brian,

I do agree that most sellers don't have to sell. I just was left a couple of nice mortgage free houses by my parents that I don't need to sell and thus rented both properties. There is nothing wrong with a nice stream of cash!

However, what I do find crazy in these estate situations when no one is using the asset, and there is a high cost to hold, and emotion rather than rationality drives the process. Just this past year, a member of my yacht club died, he widow turned down a decent offer (based on the son's not the broker's advice). She held the boat a solid year, paid dockage, insurance, etc, and wound up with 30% less (even less if you include the cost of feeding the boat) than the first offer.

I am less concerned with trying to get a steal.. not my objective. Rather, I will only buy what I want for my own use. I am concerned that I don't find myself up side down if I want to sell the boat and move up in a couple of years. I am not sure where these boats are going to wind up in terms of value in this market.

Cheers
Spin

 

[Brian Degulis]

You see that all the time I think some of the blame is with the brokers involved. Sometimes I think they mis lead the seller into thinking they can get a higher price to get the listing knowing that they won't and that he or she will wear down over time.

I do think it's a great time to buy when you look at some of the boats that have sold and what they have sold for it's just so much boat for so little money. But the truly good deals go very quickly so you have to be patient and watch the listings very closely and be ready with cash in hand.

Brian

 

[spindrift]

Brian

Thanks for your input. I hope I find a boat before the Admiral buys more stock! The J&J is doing well..but I would rather have the Hatt.

What I found annoying in this situation was the the broker called me several times telling me the widow wanted the boat gone and to submit any reaasonable clean offer. Then after I make the offer the son in law saws they will just donate. As all of us know, the IRS has tightened up the rules on this. I offered her at least 4-5 times what a dontation would be worth after tax.. go figure.

On to the next boat I am not wasting my time with people like this! Off to Dubai in 10 days on business. I want to see Palm Island.. will let you all know what the yachting scene is like there. It looks like I am going to be going over there every 2-3 months. I am trying to rig a hoist up in my garage to hang upside down and unkink after 28 hours of flying over 6 days.

Cheers

Spin

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Spin,
Post some pics of the Dubai trip if you can. That would be interesting.

 

[spindrift]

Sky

One of my Y Club members went to the boat show there last year. He said it was great. As I work for a University I am flying in the back of the plane (I miss my private sector NYC banking job perqs some time) and got one heck of a deal on the ticket. $1365 from NYC to Dubai, Dubai to Quatar, back to Dubai and then NYC.

Might be a good place for a guy from the midwest to warm up in January!

Spin

 

[Vincentc]

Spin,
As part of our boat shopping and purchase this summer, after deciding exactly what we wanted (43 DC or MY) and what the market value was, I prepared an email message explaining what I was looking for and what I was willing to pay and sent it to every broker with a boat that appeared on Yachtworld to meet our criteria and was in a suitable geographic location. I noted that their asking price was out of the range of what I appreciated the current market value to be, and invited them to respond IF their boat could actually be purchased in my price range.

I received several interesting and helpful responses, and did identify boats whose owners and brokers appreciated market value based upon current comparable sales. One of the responding brokers, graciously provided me with a list of recent sales which seemed to confirm that the NADA price (without extras) was pretty consistent with sales comparables. As it turned out, separate from the mass email I located the boat we actually bought, but the email was well worth the time and probably would have located a suitable boat.

In addition I learned not to go and see a boat without a prior understanding of what the actual selling price was. It made the most sense to me, before taking time and spending money traveling to see a boat, to first obtain an appreciation from the photos and broker as to condition and equipment, and if the selling price was in range, make an offer with deposit, contingent on inspection, sea trial and survey. Only after my conditional offer was accepted would we spent the time and money to go look at and sea trial the boat.

We did this, dealing with very professional broker, Greg Somerville at Galati. The boat was as represented, the boat passed survey and we paid the price previously agreed.

My approach and experience may be helpful to you and I pass it on. It may not be the way to get the very lowest price, but a good boat at a fair price was good enough.

Regards,
Vincent

 

[spindrift]

Vincent:

Thank you for your kind and thoughtful advice. I did deal with a very good broker in Annapolis who was right on the money on Hatt 53 their but the Admiral dragged her feet and boat was sold to a now happy new owner. In regards to the boat in NJ, I was assured by the broker that a deal could be struck in line with recently closed transactions. I was within 10% of what they finally wanted (just before they are going to haul and store for the winter).

At this point, I am going to bag it until January. Far too much to do including 2 trips to the Middle East and 2 to Europe. I have no more time at this point to horse around with this.

I am glad that the process went more smoothly for you.

Spin