You can now claim you received the Medal of Honor

[MikeP]

Even if you never served in the military at all! http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/supre...litary-service/story?id=16669096#.T-yyeo7LtSU

Similarly, a Dishonorable Discharge, which used to be a fairly heavy duty millstone re future civilian employment but now seems to mean nothing at all re employment.

We talk about supporting the troops but basically we're just running our mouths. Saying that it's OK for some sleazeball to lie about service/awards, doesn't really "support" the military at all.

This really steams me but oh well, the times they are a'changin!

 

[Boatnut]

What did you expect out of the current administration?

In my opinion dabama should have produced a birth certificate before he was allowed on the presidential ticket not after his election. As president, he has powers not afforded anyone else, he took what 2 years plus to produce the birth certificate, with that kind of time, anyone that knows how to use a computer could make up a phoney document.

Just think, the candidates in the upcomming election can lie their way into office, just like dabama schemed his way in with a bunch of smooth talk, and empty promises, unfortuneately with the help of the press he will probably do it again.

The press won't even report on Ron Paul, they are scared as hell of him. No I am not a Paul supporter, but I do think all candidates should get equal coverage from the press.

 

[Jaxfishgyd]

Well,
Tomorrow at 10:30am my father in law is being interned here at the Jacksonville Veteran Cemetary with military honors...
He served in WWII in both Africa and Italy yet NEVER talked about it.
Wonder what he would say about this.......

 

[Seabrooke]

Well,
Tomorrow at 10:30am my father in law is being interned here at the Jacksonville Veteran Cemetary with military honors...
He served in WWII in both Africa and Italy yet NEVER talked about it.
Wonder what he would say about this.......

My condolences to you and your family Charlie.

May your father in law rest in peace. Fair winds and Following Seas to him.

Please thank his kids (and wife if she survived him) for his service from me as an ex-serviceman. Yanks and Aussies have shared this stuff for a long time.

 

[lumina]

Hi All,

I echo Ricks condolences and wish for fair winds and thanks of service.

I'm going to take this a bit father than Mike and say it REALLY pisses me off.

My dad died at 80 two years ago and served in the Navy for 21 years, enlisting underage at 17.

This BS is completely disrespectful of all Americans who served their country willingly, proudly, courageously and often in mortal danger.

My Dad would be disgusted.

 

[MikeP]

I sat at a bar not too long ago and got into a conversation with some guys (who I had never met). One of them regaled me with a story of how he received a Purple Heart for "bravery." I asked him if he had been wounded in the action (which is what you get a PH for) and he said "No, but I DID plenty of wounding!" I just gritted my teeth and changed the subject to politics which seemed easier to bear!

My dad - who died about 18 months ago, was a WWII, Korea, Vietnam vet. As is the case with most vets of that era, he would only talk about it if you asked him specific questions. He would provide a lot of interesting stuff if you asked but, again as seems typical for his generation, he pooh-poohed his own actions.

 

[krush]

All those guys fought for the right for some goon to spout his mouth (or pen) and say stupid stuff. Of course I don't agree with false claims, but I do agree with the right of free speech. And I would think that if somebody lied about honors to somebody else, it would be a civil dispute anyway.

Direction shift: the military of today is about political correctness anyway. PC often takes precedence to actual mission execution. Remember, the .mil is a large bureaucracy too. With that said, thank goodness for special forces!

 

[Jaxfishgyd]

What a simple but DIGNIFIED ceremony.
Everything was handled in complete class....
My wife just smiles and knows her daddy got what he deserved

 

[StratPlan61]

Charlie,
Thanks to your father for his service - from all of my family! My oldest son just returned from his second combat tour,(this tour not wounded), my next oldest son should return from his combat tour in October ( God willing) and meet his new daughter for the first time! Many of you know my service record, my family appreciates guys like your father - my father was a WWII combat vet and passed 45 years ago. Our salutes to your father!

 

[Glory]

Severice to your country is generous and brave, lip service saying you served your country is cowardous.

I daily enjoy the generous and brave things many vets and active service men and woman did for the US, freedom and liberty.

It's not possible to thank them all, so the next time you see one thank them.

JM

 

[jim rosenthal]

I agree with the post above regarding how little combat veterans say about it; everyone I've known who was in combat was reluctant to speak of it, and really didn't want to be pressed. I suspect this is similar to my experience when people ask me to tell "war stories" from the ER- I don't mind discussing it with close friends, but not with folks I don't know. And these are sobering experiences, but NOTHING like combat, from all I've ever heard.

Several years back, I recall an incident in which a Navy admiral (Boorda?) was found to have been photographed wearing a decoration he hadn't earned. It wasn't clear, from what I recall, how this happened; whether it was an honest mistake or whether he had deliberately claimed a decoration to which he was not entitled. He blew his brains out. I felt badly for him, and still do, but I thought about it when I read the Supreme Court verdict, and wondered whether his reaction to disgrace wasn't in some way understandable.

As to the idea that fraudulent use of a decoration or falsifying a military record somehow devalues the record of those who actually served with those distinctions, I don't think it does. Lincoln said something about this in the Gettysburg Address: "The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract." Decorations for military service and combat service are a commemoration or marking of acts of valor; the acts themselves stand on their own. I would also suggest that many acts of valor are not commemorated, for any number of reasons, and that those acts are no less heroic for not being recognized after the fact. And inversely, those individuals who claim recognition to which they are not entitled- whether it is in the military or any other walk of life- know their worthlessness as people, their lack of honesty, and shallow and inflated self-regard.

 

[lumina]

Hi All,

JM,

Thanking them, it's an amazing thing.

I'm surprised I failed to mention it in my earlier post.

After my dad died almost three years ago, (I'm ashamed I haven't done it all my life) I felt compelled to thank those who serve or who have served, and I came to realize just how much that small gesture, a minute of my time, a few kind words, an expression of thanks, means to these folks.

Whether they’re WWII vets like my dad or anyone who serves or has served. When you walk up and thank them for their service and shake their hand you can immediately see a look of surprise on their face and then sincere appreciation, sometimes modesty.

It's a dam shame how serving your country today is so often looked at negatively.

Krush is right relative to freedom of speech, and I'm exercising mine. These pretenders should be subject to public ridicule at a minimum.

 

[Avenger]

Dr. Jim, et al, very nicely said, and well thought out.

Seems like there are usurpers in every walk of life. While we have to contend with them on many levels, few are more offensive than those who ride on the backs of the ones that have sacrificed so much.

 

[Boatnut]

I have run into the braggers about their service experience, most that do are as phoney as all get out it seems. When I meet a perferctly healthy person like these people I try to politely remind them, they are one of the lucky ones, they came home in one peace. Very few vets with severe disabilities or medals of distinction will talk about it, let alone brag about it.

I do not care if a person has served, or is currently serving, is a combat veteran or served and did not do combat duty, they all have my utmost respect, and a big from the heart thank you.

God Bless them all.

 

[MikeP]

" I would also suggest that many acts of valor are not commemorated, for any number of reasons, and that those acts are no less heroic for not being recognized after the fact. "

Absolutely right. To receive a valor award at, say the rifle platoon level, someone who witnessed it has to either report the act or write it up personally. It could stop or go forward at company level, depending on what the view of it is there. Then it has to go forward for approval. The higher the award, the higher up the chain it may have to go. Purple Hearts are awarded for wounds received in action and they are essentially automatic.

You get the same Purple Heart whether a small piece of shrapnel punches a little hole in your arm that gets a bandage at an aid station and you head back to "work", a machine gun puts several bullets in your body, or you lose arms/legs due to bomb.

Valor awards actually require some work on several peoples' part and the first step is simply whether the observer(s) felt it was more than what is expected as the normal duties of combat soldier. Like anything, what a particular observers sees/feels might be different than another.

 

[krush]

For every award pinned, there are plenty that aren't pin (though deserved). I'd even argue that those that most deserve an award probably don't get it due to bureaucracy, etc. I'm no historian, but it seems that often medals and rewards in the military are used for the same thing as in the working world and even little league...to boost moral and hopefully recognize those that have done something special (and not just said the right things).

In my experience, great people don't do great things for medals or awards. Those that act soley for awards, usually aren't great people. My other half calls many of the pins "good job medals" because they are handed out left and right.

My point is that like everything, the good often don't get the credit...and the undeserving do. But nonetheless, they all made some sort of sacrifice. Award chasers are the type of person that becomes a politician; and we know how great they are loved LOL

 

[MikeP]

One thing that gets overlooked sometimes is the "job vs medal." For example, an infantry battalion commander is not normally exposed to the same level of daily combat as an infantry rifle platoon leader. That's as it should be; their jobs are different. So, frequently - and I'm not saying this is right or wrong (though I used to say it was ABSOLUTELY wrong when I was in my 20's) - a Bn commander gets, let's say, a bronze star with V for something that for a rifle platoon leader, is just part of the job and no one would think twice about it.

FWIW Bronze stars can be a bit confusing; there are two of them - Bronze Star for Meritorious Service and Bronze Star for Valor. They are the same medal/ribbon but if you are awarded one for valor, the medal/ribbon is worn with a "V device" on it. BS/V, like all valor awards, are for a one-time combat action of some sort. BS/M is for doing a good job, usually over some period of time. You could get a BS/M for doing a good job as a platoon leader, let's say, for several months...or for doing a good job organizing the base camp.

The vast majority of medals issued are not valor awards - there are only 4 of those. Most medals/ribbons that you see are for doing some sort of good work administratively, or campaign/service medals ("I been there" medals), or qualification badges - expert rifle, Combat Infantry Badge, jump wings. etc.

 

[Glory]

Jim,

"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract." Knowing the address, a school assignment, I surprised that didn't come to mind. Well stated on your part.

The funny thing is claiming greatness, without merrit, is just lowering the bar.

JM

I agree with the post above regarding how little combat veterans say about it; everyone I've known who was in combat was reluctant to speak of it, and really didn't want to be pressed. I suspect this is similar to my experience when people ask me to tell "war stories" from the ER- I don't mind discussing it with close friends, but not with folks I don't know. And these are sobering experiences, but NOTHING like combat, from all I've ever heard.

Several years back, I recall an incident in which a Navy admiral (Boorda?) was found to have been photographed wearing a decoration he hadn't earned. It wasn't clear, from what I recall, how this happened; whether it was an honest mistake or whether he had deliberately claimed a decoration to which he was not entitled. He blew his brains out. I felt badly for him, and still do, but I thought about it when I read the Supreme Court verdict, and wondered whether his reaction to disgrace wasn't in some way understandable.

As to the idea that fraudulent use of a decoration or falsifying a military record somehow devalues the record of those who actually served with those distinctions, I don't think it does. Lincoln said something about this in the Gettysburg Address: "The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract." Decorations for military service and combat service are a commemoration or marking of acts of valor; the acts themselves stand on their own. I would also suggest that many acts of valor are not commemorated, for any number of reasons, and that those acts are no less heroic for not being recognized after the fact. And inversely, those individuals who claim recognition to which they are not entitled- whether it is in the military or any other walk of life- know their worthlessness as people, their lack of honesty, and shallow and inflated self-regard.