"Winterizing" 58 LRC

[JD5652]

Unfortunately, my 58 LRC will be staying in Mystic, CT for the winter. I will take the time to do some needed maintenance, upgrades and repairs. I will be staying in the water and will shrink wrap down to the rub rail.

On my previous boat (1989 44 Ocean SS), I always stayed in the water in the winter and never winterized any system... including fresh water. I put 3-4 oil filled heaters on the boat and had the engine block heaters energized. This provided enough "heat soak" to keep everything from freezing and this method worked in the coldest of winters for 14 years. I had the grey plastic piping for fresh water on that boat.


I've done some research on this forum and noted that a lot of my fresh water system on the 58 LRC is likely copper piping/tubing.... which we all know is not very forgiving to freezing temperatures… and frankly gives me some serious concerns about developing possible leaks or breaks in the old copper piping.

I'm torn between using my old methods and having functioning water systems (head, shower, etc) and totally winterizing the fresh water system by either using an air compressor or using the pink stuff.

I've also thought about partially winterizing some of the fresh water lines like the aft deck wet bar, ice maker and cockpit washdown and leaving rest of system operational.

I'm totally open to suggestions and others experiences here.....

Thanks in advance!

 

[JD5652]

Separate Question... has anyone replaced the old copper tubing with Pex or similar product?

Is this a crazy idea??.... is there "tons" of copper piping on this vintage Hatt??

 

[MadHatter53]

I did a poor job last winter when I winterized my freshwater sys. The old copper burst in 7 spots so I redid entire sys with pex and sharkbite fittings. Then my waterheater was leaking so that was replaced as well. Then I also had to replace my VIP faucet which turned into a new sink and faucet. The pipe is cheap $50 a roll of blue and red, the fitting are not cheap. I'm not 100% finished and I'm at about $200+ worth of connectors.

 

[JD5652]

I did a poor job last winter when I winterized my freshwater sys. The old copper burst in 7 spots so I redid entire sys with pex and sharkbite fittings. Then my waterheater was leaking so that was replaced as well. Then I also had to replace my VIP faucet which turned into a new sink and faucet. The pipe is cheap $50 a roll of blue and red, the fitting are not cheap. I'm not 100% finished and I'm at about $200+ worth of connectors.

Madhatter-

How much time and how difficult running the Pex throughout the boat?

Did you create a main header and then make runs off that??…

Any pics?

Thanks!

 

[oscarvan]

I can't speak to the plumbing specifics of the Hatts.

Your statement "either compressed air or antifreeze" I will respond to.

Many, many years of messing with RV's and living in cold country I have learned (the hard way) to not rely on blowing out the lines alone. You never get it all, and some of it will settle back down, not to mention added condensation, in nooks and crannies where it can cause problems.

I blow out and then I use the pink until it comes out everywhere. Yeah, on a boat with three heads/showers that's a lot of pink. under $3 a gallon at Wallymart when on sale. On a boat instead of putting it in the tanks, which can be quite wasteful I run until empty, then I 3 way into the pump intake to send it down stream to all faucets etc, and then upstream to protect all the lines to (from) the tanks. You'll have to figure a way to verify that some of it is forming enough of a puddle in the bottom of the tank. Some clear line just before could help.

If you're going to do this more than once some mods to make it easier are in order. First time will take a while, next time shorter. I have my diesel pusher down to 20 minutes, in a rest area if needed.

Worth researching getting a bulk supply to park somewhere and fill 5 gallon cans with.

 

[MadHatter53]

Running the pipe was easy I removed the copper and put the pex where it was. Problem was all the 3 and 4 way couplers, they haven't been touched in some time and wouldn't budge so some of the copper feeding sinks and shower kinked while I was trying to undo them. I planned on just replacing the feeds and leave the connected piping in place and use adapters to make things fit.i used a four port manifolds to bring the piping together So,I have 4 sinks, 3 showers, hose bib on flybridge and a cold feed to bar in aft deck and a hookup for my windshield washer, clothes washer and dishwasher. I have a set of pipes going aft a set going thru gen room for galley and forward head& shower. Dishwasher, clothes washer, flybridge bib, aft sink and windshield washer is not finished. It took forever as my boating is on weekends. I used the push in connectors not the crimp type.

 

[JD5652]

Running the pipe was easy I removed the copper and put the pex where it was. Problem was all the 3 and 4 way couplers, they haven't been touched in some time and wouldn't budge so some of the copper feeding sinks and shower kinked while I was trying to undo them. I planned on just replacing the feeds and leave the connected piping in place and use adapters to make things fit.i used a four port manifolds to bring the piping together So,I have 4 sinks, 3 showers, hose bib on flybridge and a cold feed to bar in aft deck and a hookup for my windshield washer, clothes washer and dishwasher. I have a set of pipes going aft a set going thru gen room for galley and forward head& shower. Dishwasher, clothes washer, flybridge bib, aft sink and windshield washer is not finished. It took forever as my boating is on weekends. I used the push in connectors not the crimp type.

You have very similar number of runs and end devices as I do. Thanks for the insight into such a project. Hope I don't "have" to do that.... but it's a good Plan B.

Now to decide on what I'll do for "winterizing" this winter.....

 

[Glory]

I would suggest that ice makers, dish washer, washing machine water filters and refrigerators will not work with pressurized air . The pink stuff is the way to go.

You might consider a by pass circuit for the water heater with three vanves. It speeds up winterizing, if you do use this method after winterizing and the system not under pressure open the valves for a second or two to let the water trapped in the valve out, especially ball valves.

It is great to have the boat ready for use, I worry if the dock has an issue it could be painful.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[oscarvan]

You might consider a by pass circuit for the water heater with three vanves. It speeds up winterizing

And it saves many gallons of pink. Also a common setup on RV's.

 

[jim rosenthal]

I have learned (the hard way) that the way to winterize my boat, in this area of MD, is to pump the system as dry as I can using the FW pump, blow it out with compressed air from the dockside fitting, and then pump the pink stuff through the system from the dockside fitting. The only thing I isolate is the water heater- I have a set of valves to take it out of the circuits, and I just drain it. That has worked well. Every other method led to pipe ruptures.

You are correct that the copper pipe is unforgiving. One hard freeze and it breaks. In the least accessible place.

Yes, you can replumb the boat with PEX, and it IS much better, but getting all the copper out and replumbed isn't easy. This wasn't a service item when these boats were built, so much of it isn't easy to get to.

If I were you, I would winterize the entire system by pumping it dry and blowing it out with compressed air, and then pump pink AF through the entire system. If you want to add isolator valves etc, do it in the spring. I would not try to modify the system now, with fall and winter rapidly coming on. Do what's safest for the boat now, and you'll have some time to think about what you want to do later on.

I don't think there's any question that a PEX system is much better than what most of us have, but the amount of time it take to replace all the copper is quite a bit. A 58 LRC has a LOT of plumbing and fixtures. You are talking weeks of work to do it correctly.

I should also mention that in New England you might need the higher concentration of AF- there is another formulation of it which won't freeze to lower temps than we get here in Maryland. You might need that stuff to be safe. It gets a lot colder up there.