why 2 anchors?

[Woodsong]

Ok, part of my specialty in life seems to be asking really basic questions that probably everyone else already knows the answer to. In that vein of thought, can someone answer this for me? Why do the larger boats seem to often have 2 different anchors on the pulpit? Is one an oversized anchor for storms/rough weather and one just used for a brief siesta or something? Why have 2 different ones on the pulpit? Or do you typically only do this to have both styles, say a plow type and a danforth type, with the option to use either one depending on sea bed conditions?? See sample photo attached below....

http://yachtworld.com/core/listing/..._date=1151016007000&photo_name=Anchor&photo=3

 

[Jaxfishgyd]

Boy will you get replies out of this.....

No one anchor will fit all situations. Bottom conditions dictate what type of anchor to use.

The one thing "most" will agree on, no matter what style anchor you go with, oversize it to your boat.

I have a 66lb Bruce as my main anchor, have a fentress on my secondary line and a plow as a backup. Can easily change what one I put on my lines.

And in some areas, you will need to do a Bimini anchor, which requires usiing two anchors to restrict swinging.

 

[Freebird]

Good answer Charlie, I don't think anything else needs to be said other than a second anchor will serve as a back up in case you lose the first.

I always carry a second anchor, but not on my pulpit. I use an 80lb stainless plow on the pulpit for a primary, and a 40lb Danforth for a lunch anchor on my 58. The second anchor is used more for securing the stern in certain situations.

My only question is, did you post here on purpose or were you banished? If the latter is the case, it just goes to show there is a lot of personal interpretation as to what is Hatt related huh?

 

[CARL GUZMAN]

I had a plow on my boat and I think there garbage the danforth IMHO is the best choice and never lets me down . I had the same size plow drag in the Keys, Miami , Bahamas , Naples so I changed to the danforth also nice to have a back up grapling on board for the real rocky areas when no sand around

 

[Paul45c]

My boat came equipped with a CQR hinged plow type anchor. That thing often would take it's own sweet time setting, while my Fortress storm anchor would grab almost right away. Needless to say, I never overnighted without setting both for peace of mind.

My CQR was getting a little tired looking, and since the anchor pulpit and associated hardware was all set up for a plow, I decided to go with the Delta plow. Night and day to the postiive. Frankly, I was very pleasantly surprised because I figured how different can two different plow types be? And if anything, you'd figure the hinge on the CQR would give you a better hold when your boat was swinging a moderate amount due to wind or current shift. I think the main difference comes in that the CQR will lie on its side on bottom pre-set, whereas the Delta will lie upright, snagging that pointed tip almost right away.

I haven't had a chance to test my Delta in storm conditions (knock on wood!), but I had 3 good ones to test the CQR in. It ain't no great shakes. The bow on my boat was the only part to drag, and guess what? I had Fortresses everywhere else, and they didn't budge a bit. These were set in a wide array in a canal with a nice ooze kind of bottom. If ever there was a place where that CQR should have gotten a good set, it would have been in that environment.

My two cents FWIW.

 

[thoward]

What happened to the good old days when you used a coffee can filled with concrete? On my first boat(a 14' alum stumpknocker) I used cast iron window weights. Silly me, I thought I owned the world with my 5hp aircooled Sears outboard

I have never used a plow but then again the danforth has allways worked for me in the Florida area. I carry 2 anchors on all my boats including the dink.

 

[CARL GUZMAN]

My boat came equipped with a CQR hinged plow type anchor. That thing often would take it's own sweet time setting, while my Fortress storm anchor would grab almost right away. Needless to say, I never overnighted without setting both for peace of mind..

Yea thats what I got CQR -CAN'T QUICKLY RESET

 

[Passages]

I had Fortresses everywhere else, and they didn't budge a bit. .

So the Fortress marketing hype is true? I was never sure about that brand.

The aluminium stock seems too light to set quick and if there is any current, I would think it would sail away and never hit bottom. Just an uninformed opinion.

Is the secret with Fortress to use a boatload of chain to weigh it down?

 

[Genesis]

I like Fortress for its "hook strength for the weight" - but if you ever manage to break it out it may foul.

The Delta pretty much CAN'T foul.

I took my Fortress off Gigabite and replaced it with a Delta 44. That thing hit the bottom and BANG - its DOWN. End of discussion.

Now with that said, the Fortress held in a nasty storm that chased us into port - we didn't make it, and had to drop the hook. It held in winds that easily hit 60kts for close to an hour. But - I never felt safe going to bed with that thing in the ground, because sometimes it would foul or refuse to reset when you came around on it.

The Delta never gave me a lick of trouble.

I like the idea of having two available on rollers - the more options the better when things get dicey.

 

[Freebird]

LOL Hey Bubba thoward, your heritage is showing. I too grew up with home-made anchors, the heavier the better. There are still a lot of folks up here on the river using the same technique. They drop those things straight down and wonder why their boat won't stay anchored!

The funniest thing I ever saw was when I was locking through Chickamauga Dam in Chattanooga. I was in my brand new '88 Sea Ray Pachanga 32, and I was already secured to a bit. Along came a good ole' boy in an aluminum runabout. The lockmaster told him to tie up alongside me. I didn't have a problem with that until the guy threw out Clorox bottles for fenders and started towards me.

Thankfully the lockmaster saw what was happening, and redirected the guy to a bit of his own.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

The problem with the danforth type is if you get something wedged between the flukes and the main arm. I once pulled up an old log from the lumbering days up here in Michigan. It had to be about 20-30ft long and about 14-16" diameter. I thought the windlass was really struggling and then I saw the log stuck on the anchor. Fortunately, with a long boat hook we were able to dislodge it after about 15 minutes. We could hold that log at water level but no higher. Who knows what it weighed having been waterlogged for years. I feared that I was going to have to get out the hand saw and deploy the dinghy. It just goes to show that the more you boat, the more strange experiences you are bound to have.

 

[Pascal]

i think the best reasons are to be able to use the one that will hold in the bottom you're anchoring in and if you're going to use 2 anchors bahamian style (strong current).

a spare can be stored away and deployed when needed...

I really don't understand the concept of a lunch hook... in fact, if i'm goign to anchor just for lunch, i want the anchor to set right away with minimum fuss. i dont' want my lunch getting cold ! on a larger boat with windlass, deploying a lunch hook or the normal one requires the same a amount of work. I guess on a small boat where you may have to dig it out manually out of the locker then retrieve it by hand, it makes sense. not on a large boat.

in mud an sand, my Fortress has never failed to set on the first attempt in the past 3 years I've had the boat, anchoring out once a week on average.

once set, it has incredible holding power. I usually need to power up to dig it out of the mud...

that said, anchoring technique is usually far more important than the type of anchor. deployed properly most anchor will set and hold; the problem is that so many boaters are very good at screwing up something as simple as anchoring!

 

[Paul45c]

that said, anchoring technique is usually far more important than the type of anchor. deployed properly most anchor will set and hold; the problem is that so many boaters are very good at screwing up something as simple as anchoring!

Right on, Pascal. And if you really care about the set and want to sleep well, like you said earlier in another post, you swim down and eyeball it and hand place if necessary.

thoward, you asked about whether those light Fortresses "sail" on you in a light current. Yep, they will if you let 'em fly; when using a Fortress, I always feel better about paying them out more gradually. Conventional Danforths will do the same, just to a lesser extent since they're heavier.

All the Danforths are prone to clogging up with weeds and have difficulties penetrating matted grasses & weeds. The Keys are notorious for that down around here. I can't count the number of places down there that have a hard flat bedrock coral bottom with the thinnest skim of silt & some fairly thick woven weeds thatched across the top. Your best Danforth type will just claw a trough through the weeds and won't grab anything. It's really maddening when doing inshore fishing in a small boat and trying to find ANYWHERE around a cut or channel that you REALLY want to fish where you can get your !@*#$ anchor to hold! In a bottom like that, I'd have to think an upright plow like a Delta would work the best -- you have one sharp point that could snag SOMEthing, and it wouldn't foul from the weeds.

I've got to second what Pascal had to say about Fortresses when they take a good set in sand or muck -- you need a bulldozer to break them back out again. Three hurricanes here over two years made me a believer. I'm gonna guess a high tensile-grade Danforth would work really well in that application, too. Truly, after seeing them work in those kinds of extreme conditions, I now honestly put more faith in the hold of a well-set Fortress than even the stoutest cleat anchored to a seawall on the other side of the canal.

Moral of the story? Add my name to the list that says having at least 2 different styles of anchor on board is the way to go. Who knows what kind of bottom you're going to run into.

 

[Genesis]

BTW on danforth-style anchors and storms...

One of the charter boats around here set two big Danforths (same model I had listed here for sale) inline for Ivan.

They held. After the storm he tried for over two hours to break them out.

He failed, even with FULL engine power, and ultimately had to cut the rode.

I have no idea how deep those two anchors were, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were 20' under the surface of the sand post-storm....

 

[egaito]

In addition to having anchors for different conditions, there is the concept of the "lunch hook", a smaller, presumably easier to handle, and less expensive anchor to drop when anchoring for other than overnight purposes, and a little slide won't kill you.

Misty had a big hinged plow on her when I bought her. I had the opposite problem of what some described, in that I could never get the #@$% thing off the bottom. Finally broke the 5000lb strap (but the pulpit held) trying one night.

Up here, the issue is stuff underwater. I was probably trying to raise a gas station or a church with that thing.

I'm using a cheap West Danforth style, but will be replacing it with a Delta I think next season. They seem to find a grip in about anything we run into here, which is clay, mud, silt, and rock.

 

[Pascal]

ED, a lunch hook makes sense on a small boat wiht no pulpit or windlass, where you have to pull the anchor from a locker and then raise it by hand. but on a large boat, with windlass, pulpit, etc... i just don't see the point. when i have my foot on the up switch, i dont' care if the anchor is 30 or 60lbs...

and dragging is dragging... all it takes is one boat to anchor 100' behind your stern to ruin your lunch if your lunch hook slides a little.

As to the Fortress sailing, i guess it could in strong current but as soon as you have 10 or 20' of chain out, it's going to sink fast onto the bottom. If it's really windy or if the current is strong, i may slow down the drift with the engines but i want to dump the chain as fast as possible... well reasonably, not like dumping it all in a lump !

the less it will drag, the less chances it will clog up with grass or muds.

that said, in grass any danforth will fail to set, that's a good reason to have a delta or plow or...

 

[jim rosenthal]

I have had Fortress anchors on my last two boats. I do use a fair amount of chain on them, but they hold like crazy, the only problem that they are difficult to break out at times once they have a solid set. You need a robust rode on a Fortress, because of that- you likely will have to power it out to disengage it from the bottom. Which it will bring up in big chunks.

I agree about the Delta. However, if you don't have a pulpit, and I don't, you tend to favor flat anchors which will stow on deck, like the Fortress. I actually carry two Fortresses- a 16 as day hook and a 23 as overnight. I also carry an aluminum SPADE which I am embarrassed to say I haven't used yet. I haven't needed it so far.

I have two anchor rodes, in separate parts of the locker. The big one has thirty feet of 3/8" stainless chain and I think 300 ft of 5/8" nylon rode. I have used it once, I think. The small one has ten feet of the same chain and 250ft of 1/2" rode, I think it is. Both of the large anchors are stored assembled, so I can get them out quickly if needed.

This is probably more anchoring equipment than needed for a 36C, but because most of it is aluminum (all the anchors), it doesn't weigh all that much and does not rust.

SS versions of the Delta are available and are frankly so pretty that they are suitable for framing- same with the CQR. If you want anchoring jewelry instead of working hardware. If I had a pulpit, I'd try a Delta- they do fall right and set fast.

 

[Genesis]

The biggest problem with the Fortress is that because it is so light it can actually foul on its own chain on the way down. I've had it happen more than once and it is very difficult to prevent when you are anchoring in deeper water (as we often do to dive)

In shallow water you can LOWER it down to the bottom and mostly avoid this, but in deep water if you try to lower an anchor 100' or more to to the bottom (1) you won't be where you want to be when it gets there, and (2) the anchor still sinks slower than the chain, which is where the problem is coming from in the first place, unless you let it out REAL slowly.

That's the advantage of the Delta - the entire thing can fall in a big heap on the bottom and it will straighten itself out properly as soon as things come tight. When you're trying to hit a specific spot in deeper water this can be important.

As a diver I am very interested in (1) actually anchoring where I want to be anchored and (2) that the anchor IS STILL THERE when I come back to it. The Delta took care of both problems - the Fortress frequently left me wanting with #1, and fouled often enough to get me torqued off.

I will agree tho that once a Fortress is in the bottom it is very likely to STAY there.

 

[Wild Bill]

What happened to the good old days when you used a coffee can filled with concrete? On my first boat(a 14' alum stumpknocker) I used cast iron window weights. Silly me, I thought I owned the world with my 5hp aircooled Sears outboard

I have never used a plow but then again the danforth has allways worked for me in the Florida area. I carry 2 anchors on all my boats including the dink.

Its nice to know there are still some cast iron window weight guys still around. I tried to use them on the Hatt but I couldn't find enough of them. So, now I use a bruce as the main and a danforth as secondary. The bruce holds very well in a variety of conditions.

 

[Freebird]

I really don't understand the concept of a lunch hook... in fact, if i'm goign to anchor just for lunch, i want the anchor to set right away with minimum fuss. i dont' want my lunch getting cold ! on a larger boat with windlass, deploying a lunch hook or the normal one requires the same a amount of work.

Lunch hooks are handy when you don't have an automatic windlass and you're by yourself. My 41 doesn't have a pulpit, and my primary anchor is stowed on deck in chocks. I keep my second "lunch" anchor behind the sofa in the upper salon. It has a capstain type windlass which requires that I manually feed the rode into the locker.

They are both easy to hook up to the rode, but I use my primary anchor only when I'm overnighting or in a crowded anchorage with the threat of stormy weather. It's just easier to handle the smaller one.