Which engine to buy?

[Mike36c]

Happy new year everyone! I'm getting ready to purchase a new engine for my 20' flats skiff, the 22 year old 200 mercury has served me well but it's time for new. Weight is a major concern so big heavy motors like the Verado and other large 4 cycles is out of the question. I've narrowed it down to the yamaha 150 4 cycle (the four cylinder), the 175 suzuki (also a 4 cyl), or the 2.6L 200 evinrude e-tec. Any input from folks that have run these would be great, the good and the bad. Thanks!

 

[BUSTER]

I need to buy a new engine for the kid's Mako and it is going to one of the new OMC engines. The only thing that impresses me about the 4-strokes is their quietness. They are heavy,sluggish and so much more expensive, their fuel efficiency does not offset the initial price. Come to think of it,those were my impressions after buying and operating my new 55hp 4-stroke Homelite back in 1967 too,as every 40hp Merc and Johnson smoked me! JMO/ Tony

 

[jarhead24]

Happy new year everyone! I'm getting ready to purchase a new engine for my 20' flats skiff, the 22 year old 200 mercury has served me well but it's time for new. Weight is a major concern so big heavy motors like the Verado and other large 4 cycles is out of the question. I've narrowed it down to the yamaha 150 4 cycle (the four cylinder), the 175 suzuki (also a 4 cyl), or the 2.6L 200 evinrude e-tec. Any input from folks that have run these would be great, the good and the bad. Thanks!

4 Stroke motors are great in twin applications looking for range and economy. They are pricey and expensive to purchase. They are also quite complicated. Gone are the days of magnetos and carbs. You need a laptop and certified techs to set up some of these engines today.

For a flats boat I would prefer a 2 stroke. Bottom line is going to be application. We just repowered a fellows 30' CC fishing rig with a pair of 4 strokes. I provided three different repower choices. He was given the advantages and disadvantages to each. But these were all what would work on his particular vessel. The manufacturer of the vessel was contacted and information was gathered to ensure that there were no issues come rig time.

One may hear rumors about various engine manufacturers; many issues can be attributed to improper applications and rigging. I do like the Evinrude very much. Verados are a wonderful engine as well, extremely cutting edge technology. I would keep it simple and stick with a two stroke.

I would also look at power to weight ratios and do some consulting with the original hull manufacturer. "X" dimesions are very important. What about hull and transom condition? A new 200 2 stroke and your 22 year old Merc 200 are substantially different given the advent of ECU's. You may even consider a smaller 150 2 stroke.

Your fuel system should get a thorough inspection as well. Many of the new engines; regardless of make or type are very sensitive to fuel pressure. In short the fuel system will probably need some upgrades and improvements; assuming you have a built in tank(s). Lines, valving, filters etc...

Also when pricing; remember to factor key switch; harness, controls, instrumentation and possibly steering as well. Props too; none of these items are normally "included" in the purchase price. Look for warranties and make sure there is ample dealer support in your area.

Hopefully this helps.

 

[krush]

I've spent many years working on outboard engines and also being a young engineer, I can appreciate good designs.

I worked predominatly on merc's and they are like Ford's/Chevys, ok built, parts aren't usually too bad.

I right now have about 10 outboard motors from 9.9-200 hp. All different brands and have turned wrenches on many brands. The BEST outboards I have ever "worked on" (not really work, cuz yamaha's just don't break) is the yamahas. Compare a 25hp yam to merc or other and you'll see grease fittings at all the wear points, easy to remove carb, smart design overall. This shows in all yamaha models.

I would believe the other jap motors are built just as well, but it's harder to find parts for honda and especially Suzuki. Suzuki does have some hi-tech stuff...but simplicity and fuel burn are what I look for most.

4 strokes are worth every penny they cost. They just run forever!

Verado's...junk. Optimax/direct injection crap....give it up. Optimax is horseshit...do you know there is an air compressor on that engine?

4 stroke....it's where it is at.

If you don't put but 30 hours on the motor a year....go cheap carburetored 2 stroke because it doesn't matter. 95% of the problems u encounter will probably begin with dirty carbs from not using it engouh LOL

 

[Boss Lady]

I have Merc Optimax 250s on my Fountain. They have been trouble free for 3 years and 400 hours. I put in a new set of plugs each year, and this year we changed the impellers. They are efficient and will idle all day trolling without loading up. I average 1.5 miles per gallon cruising at 45-55 mph. I did not choose these engines, they were already on the boat. I have always been an Evenrude guy, ever since I made the mistake of buying a Checkmate with a Merc Black Max on it. However, the Optis have been great engines so far.

I have looked at the E-Techs and have been quite impressed with them. I have not been impressed by "ANY" of the four strokes. I will be guy with 20 year old 2-strokes when they quit making new ones.

Buy American, your neighbor's job depends on it.

 

[krush]

Chris,

When somebody says and optimax can't detonate and they don't blow up, let it be known they are lying. I've seen multiple ones with everything from thrown rods to detonated pistons.

You've been lucky with your flopti-maxes.

Wait till something breaks....the compressor, the air rail, or fuel rail....direct injector or injector.

John-rude went bankrupt cuz they sucked too. Hopefully bombardier turned them around.

The japs: like I said. I would take one anyday over "american". Funny, I think most of the "non American" stuff is designed and maybe even built here anyway.

I don't buy American when the company has forsaken it's customers to chase profit. Brunswich corp is definetly one of such companies.

 

[Genesis]

IMHO the last good motor that Mercury made was the Black Max. Anyone remember it?

I've owned Yamahas on my outboard boats now for years. I've yet to have one do anything ugly to me. The 150 F4 is a great design; the 115 is a bit dodgy IMHO, but I like the 150s a lot and own two of them.

They're not cheap, but like all things, you get what you pay for.

You couldn't GIVE me a 2-stroke DI motor. I don't care who makes it. They are all trying to cheat in terms of getting "lean" mixtures to fire, and when they work they're great. When they don't they detonate and blow or burn holes in things that shouldn't have them - like pistons.

I owned an OX66 SWII Yamaha 200 and it was a great engine. But that was a straight FI 2-stroke - no games, no tricks, just a straight 2-stroke with fuel injection. It ran great and I pounded the hell out of it without ever having a problem.

I know too many people who have had HPDIs and Optis blow up, and the new ETECs, while allegedly better, are not flawless either. No thanky. Give me a 4 and be done with it.

 

[Boss Lady]

Maybe mine have done so well because they are lightly loaded 3x250 and the Fountain hull form reduces drag too. I mostly run premium gas. I don't run to max rpm all the time either. I try to not abuse my gear, although I did recently run at 65 mph all the way back from the gulf stream the other day. Went 60 miles in 55 minutes. It was a very calm day.

I use mercury oil only. These high HP engines can fry in an instant if your impeller isin't flowing water. My Optis sense the octane difference and I lose about 6 mph off top speed if I am running marina gas vs premium pump gas. There is a difference in power also. I assume it is the computer turning down the spark advance. Mine are 2005 models.

I have seen blown up Hondas, Yamahas, etc at the local outboard shop. Try getting parts when you do have a problem. I can only speak for my experience, so far I would by the Optis again.

 

[BUSTER]

Chris,


The japs: like I said. I would take one anyday over "american". Funny, I think most of the "non American" stuff is designed and maybe even built here anyway.



JMO/ But most of the high 150hp and over Yammys I have worked on,look suspiciously like a plagarized and refined OMC design.

 

[sofarelli]

Mike,
I have a Yamaha 115 (4 stroke) on my 18'
flats boat. It's 5 years old and I have done nothing but routine
service once a year. That poor boat hangs from a davit and gets
no TLC ( compared to the Hatt) and never burps. It's quiet and best of
all, it doesn't smell. I was a doubter at first.
Mike
"Hattitude"

 

[Maynard Rupp]

I have a rule..If it is a piano, outboard, or whatever, If Yamaha makes one, you can't go wrong. Great engines. We have several outboards that I maintain at our yacht club. The Yamaha 4 strokes give us no trouble. The Johnson 4 strokes,(Suziki), are OK but troublesome. Our 2 strokes are a real pain. My son had a Fountain with a pair of 250hp. Yamaha 2 strokes,(older), and they were great. I do have a friend with a new S-Tech Evinrude which is fine, but it is way too soon for problems. It probably has 20 hours. Bottom line is, in my opinion, you can't go wrong using Yamaha 4 strokes.

 

[Mike36c]

Thanks for the input. The only one of these engines I've seen run is the e-tec and it was impressive, quick starting, smooth, quite, plenty of power. I see a lot of Bahamians running these on their work boats. The question is what happens when the warranty runs out. It would really suck if a failing sensor could toast the block on the DI 2-cycle. My next pick is the 175 Suzuki but I haven't seen one run yet. I'm afraid the 150 Yamaha will be a little doggy and his big brothers are just too heavy.

 

[Genesis]

Well I own two of the 150 Yam 4s and they've been absolutely perfect.

Instant starts, they run smoothly, have plenty of power and sip fuel (comparatively speaking of course; its a BOAT!)

No complaints.

 

[krush]

JMO/ But most of the high 150hp and over Yammys I have worked on,look suspiciously like a plagarized and refined OMC design.

The older Yam's (80's) seem to have copied some of the ideas of both OMC and Merc. They ran lower compression (omc) but seem to have taken igntiion ideas from merc.

Yamaha and Merc had a fling going in the 90's. I've heard the optimax got some of the know how from yamhaha. Merc used to rebrand yamaha's as merc 4strokes.

Then I heard that Merc sued Yamaha and accused them of "dumping" engines in the US for too cheap of price. Yamaha gave merc the finger after that and has been beating the shit out of them.

I've worked on them all. I've rebuilt them, chased electical faults, pulled powerheads just to change a stupid gasket....etc etc.

If I had money and a choice, I would always go with Yamaha....always. But I buy used (and cheap) so I don't have that option. I do have the know-how to keep old motors running though. Sometimes finding parts is the hardest part.

 

[Mike36c]

After having second thoughts concerning the longevity of DI 2-strokes I narrowed it down to the Suzuki 175 and the Yamaha F150. I think the 175 is a stronger engine but Suzuki's dealer/service network can't compare to Yamaha. When I found out Yamaha had a dealer 1.5 miles away AND one in the Bahamas that sealed the deal, I bought an F150 this afternoon. Thanks again everyone for the input.

 

[krush]

Good choice!

Yam's just work...and work...and work...and keep working.