Where Could the Water be Coming From?

[Vincentc]

Water keeps accumulating in the Stbd side engine room bilge of our 43 DC 1983.

Yesterday we went out for for the night. Before leaving the dock I found about 4 gallons in the ER bilge fwd of the engine and aft of the fwd engine room bulkhead.

While running I checked for leaks both in bilge aft of the engine where the dripless stuffing box is, and under the engine. I could not see any evidence of water coming in; however, after a run of about an hour and at anchor there was water in the stbd. bilge under the engine as well as the bilge fwd of the engine. The bilge in the bow was dry. I used the shop vac to remove about 15 gallons.

Today, Back at the dock I checked and there was water in the bilge both under and fwd of the engine. I removed about 24 gallons with the shop vac.

I thoroughly vacuumed all 3 bilges and wiped the area under the engine dry with paper towels. I then ran the stb engine both in neutral and in fwd at idle and looked and felt under the engine. I also checked the stuffing box. There were no visible leaks and the bilge under the engine remained dry. There was a small amount of water accumulation, perhaps a pint in the bilge fwd of the engine.

I checked the aft cabin, pulled the centerline matress fwd and lifted the access hatch to the stern. and the centerline bilge at the transom was dry. I did find a very slow leak from the stb rudder stuffing box, and a small accumulation of water under the stbd hatch in the aft cabin.

Port side bilge under the aft cabin was dry; however, there was an accumulation of water in the bilge uder the aft cabin closed located port of centerline and just behind the engine room aft bulkhead.

This mystery about has the best of me. Your suggestions will be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[johnjen50]

Does the water only accumulate when or after you have run the boat? If yes I would check things like sea chests that may have old hoses attached to them. Also shower scuppers if they have check valves and not loops. 24 gallons seems like a lot to me. Also I would check the stuffing boxes while the boat is underway. Perhaps the stress of running makes them leak more than is apparent when the boat is just sitting. I would check all fittings down by the waterline.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I have seen thru hulls leak around the bolts. Sometimes it is a slow leak and barely noticable.

 

[SEVEN]

The biggest leak I fixed was the hose exiting the shower sump. It seems it was split in half and all the shower water wS going directly into the engine room. The other suggestions make more sense than mine but it is what it is. Once I replaced the hose the bilge is now filled with dust. Bone dry.

 

[rmatt]

First you need to know if the water is fresh or salt. i didn't see that mentioned in your post.

 

[Pascal]

First check the water to be sure whether it s salt or fresh. It looks like it s salt water but you need to be sure it s not a fresh water leak (although with that amount you'd hear the pump cycling) or rain/ wash water

Next is it really worst underway. You said about 4 gallons before ruining then 20+ after running. If so, run the engine in neutral at higher rom (1500) to increase water flow and pressure and check every raw water hose and exhaust connection. Check your exhaust hose between the ER and the transom. They're likely original and at 30 years plus they could fail. Not familiar with the 43 layout and I don't known if a leak in the rubber hose leading aft could move forward but it's possible

This is massive amount of water. I doubt it's a thruhull leak or rudder. How about shaft log? Did you check there

Finally and most importantly I don't understand why you need a shop vac to remove that much water. What bout your bulge pumps ? Shop vac comes in handy to suck the last couple of gallons but not 20+

 

[MikeP]

I agree that the first thing to find out is whether it's FW or RW. I also agree that it's a serious amount of water you are talking about! If it's fresh W, the pump would have to be coming on periodically if it was leak on the pressure side, perhaps there's a water tank leak? Otherwise, I concur that at that volume level, an exhaust leak is a prime suspect.

FWIW - Every time I have tried to use a shop vac (various different brands) to remove water, after a couple of quarts it just sprays water out of the vac's exhaust! Useless other than to remove the last bit of water in a bilge.

 

[Vincentc]

Thanks for the comments.

Unless we go out to the barrier islands, we operate in "brown water" with very little salt. The boat dock is generally fresh, with only enough salt to grow barnacles. Regarding testing the bilge water for salt, I hate to sound like a wimp, but do you mean taste bilge water to determine if it is salty?

The bilge pump layout for the 43 puzzles and worries me. The only pumps are located in the bow about 2 feet aft of the bow stem, in the stern about 6 inches fwd of the transom and in the aft cabin just behind the ER bulkhead near the centerline. 20 plus gallons of water in the stbd side ER does not communicate with any of the bilge pumps at rest. The ER bilge does communicate with the area under the galley and just forward of the ER bulkhead but has never allowed water into the bilge under the forward cabin. Underway, with the bow up, water in the ER "may" travel back to the bilge pump in the aft cabin. I did find water, about 4 gallons, in the area around that pump. I am wondering if water may be back flowing through that pump.

When Lilly Marie was still "new to us", we had issues with water coming into the bow bilge through the pump exhaust while underway, and cured that with a check valve.

Regarding the shop vac, I have the model which attached to a 5 gallon bucket. With the foam filter, it does not spray water outside of the bucket and a float valve stops suction when there is about 4 gallons in the bucket.

I will check the exhaust and higher RPM including the exhaust hose aft of the ER.

I will also try to attached a pdf of the boat layout with pump, bulkheads, and bilge dams shown.View attachment Pump and Drain System pump arrow RS.pdf

 

[Pascal]

I wouldn't taste bilge water either Get some and put it on a dark surface in the sun to avaporate. If you see salt residue it's raw water

That layout is odd there should be bilge pumps in the ER. Three pumps altogether is marginal on such a boat, in hope they all are at least 2000goh

A check valve is not a solution to water coming in from outside while underway. Sooner or later it will fail and it also may prevent the bilge pump from pumping. You need a rising loop 12" over the discharge thruhull

I would also add a 3700 in the ER if some of the outboard area don't drain in the center bilge then try open limber holes or put a small pump in these compartments

 

[racclarkson@gmail.com]

In the for what it's worth department, I had a similar dilemma a year or so back. As it turned out, my freshwater tank had a crack on a top corner. Basically, the only time it typically leaked was underway when the bow came up. Water would slosh out and head rearward from the tank and pool in the stbd ER bilge. It'd mostly pump over and I'd wet vac it dry, and it did stay dry too until the next trip. Finally found it one day when I overfilled the tank at the dock. I recall taking around 40 gallons out by shop vac up forward where the water was trapped by the structure surrounding the tank. Maybe this helps.

 

[Finalee]

The rudder posts can leak like a geyser when under way from the force of the water, and not leak much at all while stationary. I chased this same problem and it was being caused by leaks at the rudder posts.

On another note: There should not be water traversing between the engine bed and other compartments..

 

[SEVEN]

After reading all the post this seems like the one I would focus on first. Glad you shared it with the forum.

 

[Vincentc]

More information, but no closer to an answer. Then again there may be more than one answer.

I went down to the boat around 13:00 today. Approximately 20 hours after pumping out all water, there was then another 24 gallons to be vacuumed out of the stbd ER bilge. The water was under the engine as well as fwd and aft of the 4" or so "dams" intended to keep the bilge under the engine separate from the rest of the bilge. The water level was high enough that it had flowed over the dams, giving no indication as to source. There was also about 3 gallons in the bilge below the aft cabin just aft of the aft ER bulkhead.

The engines had not been run and the boat docked in a calm bayou. After pumping all bilges, I put a stopper in the limber hole which travels under the engine bed and connects the bilges fwd and aft of the engine. At about 18:00 this evening, there was about 4 gallons of water in the bilge fwd of the engine bed, no water under the engine and no water in the bilge aft of the engine where the stuffing box is located. There was approximately 1 gallon of water in the bilge under the aft cabin just behind the ER bulkhead. It had rained quite a bit around 10:00 today.

I checked around the stbd engine exhaust and found no evidence of water leaks. From the transom fwd to the muffler just aft of the head the exhaust is all fg tubing.

I concurr with Pascal's suggestion to install bilge pumps in the ER bilge stbd and port.

I am wondering about the thru hull for the generator which is located in the stb fwd ER bilge; however, I have dried it with a towel and cannot discern a leak.

A leak thru the rudder stuffing box while underway makes sense but does not account for the water accumulation after 20 hours dockside.

I will check again in the morning.

Thanks

 

[SEVEN]

I don't want to alarm you but with that amount of water on a daily basis I would invest in an electric water pump and plug that baby in until the leak is discovered. Once you dry her out put some baby powder in a few areas to discovery the direction of the water flow. That might help you find where it starts. Good luck.

 

[Triskele]

Vincent...I have owned and lived aboard my boat for four years. During that time, water would often accumulate in the starboard side of the ER forward the engine to the bulkhead. Sometimes as much as 10 gallons or more. No sooner than I found one source there would be another. I have had water one time or another from radiator overflow, shaft logs, rudder logs and around the exhaust fitting. After addressing all of those sources, I continued to have water accumulate in the starboard engine room. Not finding a source in the engine room, I went back to check the rudder log. Nothing from the log, but found a small steady stream running across the wood platform supporting the rudder gear. Followed it to the source. Water was leaking through a screw in the transom attached to bonding or ground wires. I believe it is part of the swim platform bonding. I also believe this has been going on since I've owned the boat. I noticed over the years that there were times when water seemed to accumulate more frequently than others. In fact there were times when the area remained dry. Recently, I have been filling my fuel tank using 5 gallon cans, 20 gallons at a time. Prior to this exercise, my main tank was slightly less than half full. When the tank was half full of fuel, the engine room was dry. As I began filling the tank twenty gallons at a time, I started to notice water in the engine room when the tank reached around 3/4 full. Overtime (perhaps once or twice a week) as I continued to fill my tank, the rate of water entering the engine room started to increase where by the time I had the fuel tank full, I was needing to run the bilge pump once a day to drain the water. I finally came to the conclusion that the screw hole where the water had been trickling in was above the water line when the fuel tank was half full and below the water line when full. I say all of this to illustrate a point. With water there is no telling where it could be coming from and it could be multiple sources at any one time. It may be a result of unforeseen consequences of your own making you are unaware are happening that in my case was not found for four years. All I can say is keep tracing the leak til you find the source. It will eventually show up somewhere. Lastly, have you checked all the bolts on your swim platform that fasten through the transom? The bedding can weeken with age and develop leaks.

 

[SEVEN]

I totally forgot to mention the leak I finally found in the water heater. It was not noticeable because it ran down the wall behind the hot water heater itself. That leak took two months to track down. I'd find 5 gallons a day in the starboard engine room. Once found it all dried up.

 

[rob71]

Do not underestimate the amount of rain water that can find its way into the bilge.
Railing stanchions in particular can let quite a bit in around the base screws. Rust stains are a clue but not always present. Rebeding every few years is recommended. Keep us posted. We learn from each other !
Capt. Rob

 

[MikeP]

I assume, from the posts (if I understand them) that you have not yet determined if it is Fresh or raw water that is accumulating. Is that correct?

If so, that, IMO, is the first thing that should be determined. If you are not in salt water, obviously that is more difficult. But one way is to put some food coloring in the FW tank with a load of water. Yeah - you will have to flush that through eventually - for appearance purposes if nothing else - but that's no big deal compared to finding a leak that can dump the amount of water you are talking about into the bilge. OTOH, if it's coming from a FW tank, there is actually no "danger" to the boat because all you are doing is moving water that is already aboard to a different (but annoying) location!

If you use shore water, turn it off and see if water continues to accumulate.

As noted, it's possible for rain to get in in various ways but, if it's not raining...then it can't be that!

With the amount of water you have described, it almost seems like you could drain/dry the bilge and then literally sit there and watch to see the water running into the bilge from wherever! That would be a start though you would still have to continue searching unless the leak is right there and obvious at that point.

Obviously. any bad hose connection/cracked hose on a seacock could be causing it. Air conditioner seawater pumps are usually below water line so any issue there could do it. Back-syphoning from a bilge pump that has incorrectly been routed below the water line could also cause it. Note that Sea chest (where bilge pumps and AC seawater pumps usually dump) outlets are never below the as-designed waterline but if the boat is lower in the water due to a lot of on-board added weight, they could be. OR, if a PO has routed a bilge pump differently than OEM...who knows?

It'll be interesting to hear what it finally turns out to be. As others have noted, it could be multiple leaks but the amount of water you are talking about, it seems likely to me to include a fairly major issue, as opposed to a screw/bolt bedding problem though that may be part of it.

GOOD LUCK!!!

 

[piripucha]

In order to narrow things down, you have to find out what type of water it is. Taste it, you will not die! If the water is salty it may be coming ftom either the exhaust system, or the front or back of the shaft posts. If on the other hand its fresh water, it must be coming from your FW tank via the hose that runs back to the toilet bowl, or if you are using a shore FW connection, from any FW plumming in that area.
I hope this helped.

 

[SEVEN]

In order to narrow things down, you have to find out what type of water it is. Taste it, you will not die! If the water is salty it may be coming ftom either the exhaust system, or the front or back of the shaft posts. If on the other hand its fresh water, it must be coming from your FW tank via the hose that runs back to the toilet bowl, or if you are using a shore FW connection, from any FW plumming in that area.
I hope this helped.

Hope it's not a leaky holding tank.