Vacuflush advice needed - doesn't hold vacuum

[Brian Degulis]

I had them on my last boat and yeah they had problems leaks seals pumps etc. Then I got rid of the 4 small pumps and replaced them with one large continous duty pump. Then re sealed all 4 bowls and replaced hoses and a few other small things. Then they were great.

I think the theory of operation is good cause your not breaking down the waste with a pump but rather using suction to pull the waste through a small hole so by the time it gets to the pump its pretty well broken down. They also store energy in the vacum chambers so one large pump can handle the whole boat.

Brian

 

[Trojan]

I was thinking the same thing MikeP.


BILL

 

[JLR]

Bobk - mind sharing a little more detail with the vaccuum break fresh water leak. I am trying to find a leak and it may there --frankly not sure what/where a vacu break is. Thanks.

 

[Ross]

If you flush and get a bubble out from under the boul valve you have got some thing in the line and stuck in the joker valve.Like brown paper or some think like that. Good luck

 

[egaito]

You know...I'm not understanding something. Everyone seems to say these Vfs t are great, there sure seem to be a lot of posts that indicate otherwise...

Well, having worked with (and on) several systems, including the Galley Maids, Groco and Jabsco, I'll take the VF. They all need maintenance eventually, buy my VF went more than 10 years from installation before it needed attention. Granted, the PO used it very little, but we'd been on the boat at least 3 nights/week for several years with no issues before some seals began to let go. My mistake was not replacing everything servicable at once.

Groco and Jabsco macerators seem to last a year or two at best based on dock-mates' experience, and Joker valves don't seem to have anything over VF duckbills. Galley Maids while they seem to be long lasting have given us fits with air entrapment.

In short, in my experience, that every system out there has it's quirks, but over time, Vacu Flush sticks out in my mind as offering nicer fixtures, and providing the most reliable service.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Well, having worked with (and on) several systems, including the Galley Maids, Groco and Jabsco, I'll take the VF. They all need maintenance eventually, buy my VF went more than 10 years from installation before it needed attention. Granted, the PO used it very little, but we'd been on the boat at least 3 nights/week for several years with no issues before some seals began to let go. My mistake was not replacing everything servicable at once.

Groco and Jabsco macerators seem to last a year or two at best based on dock-mates' experience, and Joker valves don't seem to have anything over VF duckbills. Galley Maids while they seem to be long lasting have given us fits with air entrapment.

In short, in my experience, that every system out there has it's quirks, but over time, Vacu Flush sticks out in my mind as offering nicer fixtures, and providing the most reliable service.

But you didn't mention the Raritan Atlantes. I shouldn't say anything since mine have only been through 2 seasons so far, but at this point I am pleased. I guess time will tell.

 

[JLR]

bmp--Bobk - mind sharing a little more detail with the vaccuum break fresh water leak. I am trying to find a leak and it may there --frankly not sure what/where a vacu break is. Thanks.

 

[MikeP]

Overheard at the factory where the concept of what became the vacuflush was first discussed:

Designer 1: "You know, we're making this too simple. How can we make flushing a toilet as complex as possible?"

Designer 2: "Hmm, I don't know, let's ask Rube Goldberg!"

The result is history!

 

[JLR]

Mike - look at my last post in the other thread re sea planes. You know the area involved--and probably the sea plane as well.

 

[bobk]

The vacuum break is downstream of the water valve where the water goes into the toilet. It cannot contribute to losing vacuum. This thing is only supposed to prevent toilet water from getting back into the poteable water. It is located behind the toilet. In my case, you have to remove the toilet to get to it. In others it can be reached with the toilet in place, but don't worry about it if your problem is a vacuum leak. If you have a water leak from the back of the tank, this may be your culprit. Mine has a nut that compresses a foam rubber seal that was cracked and leaking. New seals are not available. A new vacuum break is $31. If it is like mine, a $2.50 rubber part provided the fix (I think).

Two or three key pieces of advice I had from the original post: Isolate the toilet from the pumping system by plugging the inlet to the vac accumulator. See what happens. Is it toilet side or pump side? Second, LISTEN for the leak at EVERY joint. It surprised me that such a slow leak can be heard, but it you turn off all noise makers, you can probably hear it as Egatio suggested. My leak was at the bowl seal, even though it held water. And it was audible. Pascal suggested this. This is a double rubber seal, and can leak air below the water seal. Try using a stethescope or a large screw diver as a listening tool.

Finally, the duckbill valves in the system may also contribute to the problem. Our local dealer who has been to VF's Poop U advises to change these every two years. Amazing that service tech's need to go to VF school every couple of years and get a diploma for their effort. Simple system????

Bob

 

[JLR]

Thanks for the reply. Just curious--how do you use a screwdriver to listen?

 

[MikeP]

Rear of Handle against ear; tip against whatever you are listening to.

Piece of rubber hose is also excellent - one end to ear, other to whatever you are listening to

the above is what all mechanics used to do before someone figured out you could sell them stethescopes. Most of them still use them after they lose/misplace the stethescope.

 

[JLR]

Interesting. Never thought of using a solid object for listening (other than a tuning fork).

 

[bobk]

%$%^%$ It's leaking vacuum again after three days of good performance. So I got under the bowl again and fiddled with the lever. By moving it just a bit, I can make the vacuum leak stop. My guess this is in the seal for the shaft that does the flushing, but the blowup diagrams do not show a seal. Anyone know if there is a seal and where?

Bob

 

[egaito]

%$%^%$ It's leaking vacuum again after three days of good performance. So I got under the bowl again and fiddled with the lever. By moving it just a bit, I can make the vacuum leak stop. My guess this is in the seal for the shaft that does the flushing, but the blowup diagrams do not show a seal. Anyone know if there is a seal and where?

Bob

I'm assuming you can hear the hiss by the pedal cartridge, rather than the bowl seal....that would explain why you're not losing water.

I believe there is an O-ring on that shaft. Is the cartridge flush in the housing that it mounts in? Sometimes getting the bronze shaft through the spring can be tough, and it won't go all the way in....

 

[bobk]

OK, I 'fixed' it again (I hope). Damn I wish the jerks who design these things and write the manuals for them had to tear them down and fix them.

Anyway, I decided the leak was at the seal for the shaft that rotated the flush ball. Bought a new one, big kit, ...directions said pull the catridge with the spring and then rotate the ball 180 degrees and remove the screw that pins the shaft to the ball. Yah, right... this is a fresh water system, but even so has enough build up that that it was not easy to rotate. OK, got it almost there, put in the screw driver and (d%@n) the head stripped and then broke off. Beat, fuss cuss etc and I finally managed to break the thing off and extricate it. Guess what, the shaft is plastic and has a single 'O' ring seal which is kind of flattened out so it leaks. The new shaft is brass and has two 'O' rings. Why not three for what the thing costs?

OK, reassemble.... Oh, the screw to pin the shaft to the flush ball is under the base of the mount and a screw driver will not fit! Hmm.. a hex head would have allowed a small socket wrench to work, but the 'engeneers' never had to fix one so didn't know there was an interference. Well, I need the head, so here we go with a tiny vice grip and then an offset phillips to get this screw down. After lots of frustration making about 1/8 turn at a time, the 3/4 inch of thread was finally seated. Next the shaft didn't want to slip into the spring cartridge and that took a few tries. Finally that was together, and I tried to put a new flush valve on and the bores for the screws didn't accomodate the original screws.... holes too small. Another trip to the store!!
Oh, did I mention the new vacuum break was not designed to fit. Oh yeah, I said that in the previous post.

OK, almost done.!? What the h.., the fitting to attach the supply water hose doesn't change over. OK, run to the hardware store.. opps, they are closed for vacation, go to the marine supply, no gots, go to West Marine... no gots, go to the biggest plumbing wholesale supply, no gots. Jury rig the thing and it's not leaking water or vacuum. Fingers crossed.

Who said these were simple systems???? It has taken days to I hope fix it. Did I tell you that the local vacuuflush dealer was bragging that he has to send his tech's to 'Poop U' for training on how to service these things. Poop U is what they call the tech training school for vacuflush. Gimme an old Par manual head.

Bob