tunes in the cockpit

[Bertramp]

I have a 1970 series 1 - 45 convertible, but this is a general question. What do you folks use for music in the cockpit ? I was thinking about pair of the outdoor Bose speakers and mounting the bracket on the aft-bulkhead underneath the overhang. I cringe at the thought of cutting a 6" hole to do a surface mount type of speaker. Under the gunwale would be great, but I don't know of anything small enough to fit. Any ideas ?

 

[hunshatt]

the bracket style Bose works well, but seems to loose a little high end . I think it's the 151 and the upgraded version is a 250something. I mounted the 131's in the flybridge and forward stateroom. the 151's on the rear bulkhead and the 25whatevers were floating on the parcel shelf in the salon.

 

[Bob Bradley]

I usually just break out the old Guild D-50.

 

[Starman]

I am a fan of the Bose speaker system and like their range. Infinity makes some nice speakers as well, but not sure of their size.

I have seen many of the 151's mounted outside and they seem to hold up very well.

 

[Paul45c]

Whichever you choose, I think the bracket mounts hanging on the high inside corners inside the overhang (right against the aft salon bulkhead) are the way to go.

Couldn't resist on the brands, though -- my serious audiophile brother-in-law's favorite audio catchphrase is "no highs, no lows, MUST BE BOSE." He loves to rag them. I ask him why, and he'll tell me it's not because they're such a bad speaker (they're not), but it irks him that they price themselves and try to position themselves as a premium audio brand. Then the ultimate irony for him was buying an '02 Vette with the BOSE labels prominently displayed on the door speaker grilles!!

 

[garyd]

Don't put them in cockpit put them on the flybridge.

I installed an excellent system on the flybridge controlled by a hardwired remote. The head is inside the salon with a six pack changer. It is plenty loud enough to hear in the cockpit. You can also buy another remote and have two one on the bridge and one in the cockpit.

So when your underway you got killer tunes at the touch of a button and once at the dock you got killer tunes in the cockpit in fact most folks don't even know the music is coming from the bridge.

garyd

 

[Paul45c]

But Gary, it's so easy to do both. Why not? And it's certainly a big enough boat to warrant it, plus you have the outputs for 4 speakers on any of the decks he'd use.

And once you're underway, it gets even harder for the cockpit crowd to hear.

BTW, those wired remotes are the BOMB, aren't they? I got tired of replacing the stereo on the bridge and also decided to mount the thing in a dry location. Sony had an excellent wired remote about the size of a short hockey puck that fits in my little electronics box and it controls everything -- you even can work an iPod and see the displays from it. Having iPod playlists at your fingertips and even being able to keep it in the same electronics box and get it boosted through a nice audio setup is the way to work. I'm sold.

 

[MikeP]

Take a look at and audition Poly Planar's marine speakers as part of your search and comparison before making a decision.

Their website is here: http://www.polyplanar.com/

Any number of the usual electronic websites carry them.

 

[jim rosenthal]

I favor having a Hammond B3 on the aft deck, complete with Leslie. The only problem is when I hit "tremolo", and the Leslie speeds up, the genset bogs down. Just kidding. Actually, I have an Alpine car stereo, but it plays through a pair of Vienna Acoustics speakers that were left over from a home stereo. Sounds great.

 

[Jackman]

I have the standard round stereo speakers someone before me installed. I wonder if "Pimp My Ride" would do a show installing a boomin system on my boat? Need some good vibrations to attract the fish!

 

[ThirdHatt]

I agree wholeheartedly with Paul45c's friend about the Bose speakers. They have an excellent advertising program and sound great in the MID-RANGE frequencies. They have weak highs and terribly inadequate lows. Look at the drivers on their top outdoor speakers. They're pitifully small (3"-4"). I believe their biggest best surround sound home powered subwoofer system maybe gets up to an 8" driver (WOW). No matter what people tell you, you simply CANNOT get big sound out of tiny drivers, PERIOD. Sorry.

With that said, Bose are probably the best all-around spoeakers for most people who have no idea what the word "audiophile" means. Just like a Lexus is arguably the best luxury car for the mass luxury car buying public. It has no personality or feel for the road like a precision German machine does, but they never break and they are smooth so they are perfect for people just trying to get from point A to point B comfortably and care nothing about the driving experience (or lack thereof) in between.

Poly-Planar is similar for the marine industry. Several sets came on my boat. They make quality waterproof speakers with tiny drivers and therefore limited frequency response. They sound great at low to moderate volumes playing music that is not too demanding.

Remember, this is not about how loud you can play the music without distortion (decibel level) or if you can shake and rattle things with the bass, it is about how full-bodied and rich the sound is coming out of the speakers at normal volume levels. You do not need much power or volume to experience true highs and deep lows (<~40hz) but it does take a quality speaker with sizeable drivers.

As much as I have never cared for Pioneer as a brand in general, they have made some of the best marine speakers (Nautica series) that I have ever heard. I have used their 6.5" two way speakers for a decade now with amazing frequency response. Now they have some 8" two way speakers that are THE BOMB! Compare frequency response specs of these speakers to any other brand and you will see the light. I'm sure there are other brands that are as good or better now that they have turned attention to the marine market with brands such as JL Audio and MB Quart. Powered Bazooka brand subs are a nice thing to tuck away somewhere to compliment small speakers as well.

 

[MikeP]

Kinda depends on what you are trying to do. Although I have some excellent speakers at home, I wouldn't consider putting them on the boat for two reasons - they are too big and the environment is too hostile. Therefore, marine use is, IMHO, for speakers designed for that purpose. True, they won't equal a good quality set of home speakers but the home speakers can't be expected to last very long. Placed outside, they wouldn't last a few weeks.

Re Poly Planar - they make individual drivers as well as a variety of box speakers. They make all sizes of individual/box units - some have "tiny" drivers and some don't. Their 10" woofer will reproduce the bass as well as you are ever likely to want/need on a boat.

 

[Rickysa]

I would be interested in speaker recommendations for the home from some of you folks in the know....I'm no audiophile, but mainly out of ignorance, 'cause I love some good tunes.

I got a Klipch (sp) thing for my iPod and it rocks.

Rick

 

[jim rosenthal]

You might look at the www.crutchfield.com web site. They are not a primary marine supplier but they are great to do business with- they are like the LL Bean of electronics, as far as honesty and great service go. I have bought six car stereos and various other things from them. They do sell some marine stuff. They also have an outlet which I think you can have access to through the web site. AND, a walk-in store with an outlet in Charlottesville, VA.

 

[thoward]

I would be interested in speaker recommendations for the home from some of you folks in the know....I'm no audiophile, but mainly out of ignorance, 'cause I love some good tunes.

I got a Klipch (sp) thing for my iPod and it rocks.

Rick

Hard to go wrong with JL Audio.......When it comes to home theater you can spend tons on high end speakers.

 

[MikeP]

If you are looking for a really good system then, as was mentioned, it's a matter of balance. It's going to cost a lot of money to get speakers that can go below 40HZ with good accuracy. One critical item is to look at the frequency response that the speaker can manage within 3db. If a speaker system says, for example that it has a frequency response of 30-20000HZ but DOESN'T state a db figure, don't even look at it. Any speaker can "twitch" at 30HZ, it doesn't mean you will hear any sound. So a good speaker should show a freq range response curve with a db figure. 50 to 18000HZ +/- 3db is quite good and way beyond what most mass market home systems can do. Any speaker system that can accurately get into the 30HZ range is superb and you will pay a lot for that ability.

The most important thing is smoothness. You can add a good 12" subwoofer to any system and get bass down to around 20HZ but unless it is accurately integrated with the system, the result is most often a horribly mismatched response curve and a horrible sound to match.

The speaker freq response curve is ideally a straight line from bottom to top - 20-20000hz +/- 0 db. This isn't possible but it's the goal. Soundwise it's better to have a system restricted in the bass and treble but with a "straight line" response curve in its usuable range than an extended range system whose response curve goes all over the place.

There are a lot of respected brands in the speaker industry and usually within those brands, more money buys you a smooth accurate extension on the bass and treble end. There are many brands but two that have been around for a while, have an excellent reputation with a decent range in price include Thiel and Vandersteen. No, I don't own either one.

I'd suggest that you have to spend at least $1500 to get a decent NEW set of speakers of good quality. They go up and Up and UP and UP from there.

However, there are obviously used speaker options. One "old" speaker that was basically the standard in the 60's and early 70's was the Acoustic Research AR3a. They are enjoying a resurgence in the used market and are not cheap for an old speaker but they still sound impressive and their bass capability shame many current "audiophile" speakers. You can expect to pay 400+ for a pair in good condition. And, like our old Hatts, parts are available; all the drivers, crossovers and controls for them can be purchased. AR LSTs are an even more capable and fairly rare "old" speaker. They easily fetch $1500 in good shape; they are essentially a three-panel AR3a with 2 additional midrange and 2 additional high range drivers for more power handling and better high freq dispersion. The LSTs will embarass ANY current speaker made selling for less than $5000 and many above that.

 

[34Hatt]

Well I went with Jensen Marine round one and put them into the over hang. Someone already had one hole near the ladder (probably for the bolts) So I decided to just go for it and cut another. It does work out well there not in direct weather and good spot for sound. What worked out real nice is they are hooked to inside stereo with the DVD pop in a movie on the Hook have back doors open and its like surround sound It does sound great have the Bose inside.

Bertramp Thanks for the decal got it Saturday and have just the right spot in mind for it

 

[thoward]

Dang MikeP, I just ask my buddy, the home theater guy, to pick something out that sounds good. I know he is partial to Jamo. He is going to do the interior of our boat sooner or later. I do not think we will go high end though.

 

[Boatsb]

I bought a 1200 watt surround system for the salon and mounted the speakers in there so we can listen or watch TV. I will be putting a car stereo type unit on the bridge with 2 speakers firing at the cockpit and 2 above the console. I will use weatherproof marine grade stuff so It will last..

The big problem is that once we start the engines all stereo are drowned out. Forget about running hard.

 

[ThirdHatt]

MikeP, you are absolutely correct. I was not trying to suggest that everyone should buy high end stuff. I certainly don't. I was simply pointing out that you DO NOT have to buy high end stuff for good sound. I would assume that any decent name brand speaker (Pioneer, PolyPlanar, Bose, JL Audio, Jamo, etc) would be able to reproduce the frequencies that the respective manufacturers specify for their speakers. Poly planar does now make a big 10" that would be awesome for a boat, but is bigger than most will install. I did not mean to suggest that anyone use full size home speakers for the boat either, for all the reasons mentioned above.

I personally have had great luck over the years with home "bookshelf" speakers as main speakers in a boat with 6" or 8" drivers and a tweeter. They fit (almost) anywhere and sound HUGE compared to those little 2" cubes. They can be bought anywhere from $300-600/pr usually. Add a little 8" powered sub in the corner or under the sofa for even lower lows. This works great for watching movies because the soundtracks have an amazing range of frequencies but your system must be able to reproduce them or you will hear none of it.

For exterior, those legendary Pioneer Nautica TS-MR163's (and their 6.5" and 8" successors) are hard to beat. They claim they get down to 38hz (1W/1M) with 90db sensitivity and I most certainly believe the factory specs. I have owned several pairs on many different boats and they all sounded fantastic. To me, a general guideline for any full range speaker is to at least touch down into the 30's and I would not consider even small speakers that do not reproduce lows below 50hz. You will miss more than you'll ever know (until you hear that same song on a better setup).

As MikeP pointed out there are many, many parameters to consider when researching speakers. Frequency response is a good general guide to give you an idea of what a speaker is capable of. If the manufacturer claims 60-20khz, you know you will not have good low bass performance. Mid-bass is what most manufacturers (especially Bose) specialize in because they can use smaller drivers and please the ladies because the speakers dissapear.

Nobody I know would buy Vandersteen's or Wilson's for their boat, that's for sure but there is something to be said for a good old fashioned decent sized woofer with a real magnet on the back. All the "acoustimass" baffeling and such will never move air like a larger driver will.