Tier 4 emission standards DEF is definitely in our future

[rsmith]

Talking to the engine guys at the Stuart boat show everybody is really worried about the tier 4 standard which was supposed to take place this year. Viking has hired a team of lawyers to try to fight it. So far they got a delay. According to the Cat and Scandia guys the emission equipment will increase the size of the engines 50% and it needs to be above the engine. In addition the typical installation will need a 300gallon stainless DEF tank. Cat guy said DEF doesn’t like the marine environment and christalizes.

 

[Pascal]

It a going to seriously affect new builds, especially sportfish and MY under 120/130

Meanwhile china, India, and other nr2holes continue to pollute as they please and the clowns pushing all that crap continue to fly their jets. How many of them were in Davos this year?

 

[Timeless72]

It a going to seriously affect new builds, especially sportfish and MY under 120/130

Meanwhile china, India, and other nr2holes continue to pollute as they please and the clowns pushing all that crap continue to fly their jets. How many of them were in Davos this year?

Exactly! We really need a change at the helm this year.

 

[mike.s]

The emission crap also hurts the efficiency and makes the motors unreliable. I have two diesel vehicles that I deleted. I didn't like dealing with the DEF and the problems the egr systems create.

 

[bigbill]

i thought this was for above 90 feet??that is why viking stopped building the 92 and makes the 90 now

 

[madhatter1]

And now my old school Detroit's might actually start to bring the value up rather than down.

Seriously, this is a bad thing for boats and yachts. Engine failures, limp mode, worse fuel burn and potential fires from added emissions crud. I'm 60 going on 61. Feel bad for the younger crowd.

 

[rsmith]

i thought this was for above 90 feet??that is why viking stopped building the 92 and makes the 90 now

24 meters I was told but EPA is pushing for all diesel engines.

 

[piripucha]

I am starting to believe that one of the side effects of COVID is that it destroys the part of the brain where Comon Sense is generated. I am to old to learn how to sail

 

[rsmith]

The emission crap also hurts the efficiency and makes the motors unreliable. I have two diesel vehicles that I deleted. I didn't like dealing with the DEF and the problems the egr systems create.

My daughter was involved with the NHDRA diesel drag racing. She raced a diesel BMW 335 I think it was. At the time she was a Judge finishing out her 5 year appointment looking to go back into private practice. EPA started coming after the guys selling tunes modifications and deletes. Even though the end user signed use was for off road only epa was shutting down manufacturers and installers with big fines and raids that were beyond what DEA does for meth labs. A group asked her if she would lobby for them in DC when her term was up. She went up and met with EPA and came back and told them “y’all are F’ed. Basically they hate diesel engines and really hate off-road and recreational use. She called me and said they’re coming after legacy engines also first by shutting down parts manufacturing that keep legacy engines “polluting” then sun setting legacy engines completely. It’s part of the push to go all electric and these people are pie in the sky radicals. They have no sympathy for recreational activities as what we do isn’t productive for society and we are selfish to contribute to climate change for self enjoyment.
She sold the BMW and got a job as a prosecutor. No shortage of work there.

 

[Pascal]

Then there is the EIAPP requirement which is loosely enforced, for now. EIAPP stands for engine international air pollution prevention…. A mouthful…. These certificates are required for any marine diesel over 130kw (about 175hp) built after around 2000

At this time there hasn’t been any enforcement but in theory both the USCG and US customs can require them when coming back in the country.

I had never heard of them until a couple of years ago when they came up during the closing of the boat I run now. Our broker knew about it and made sure they were supplied at closing. Engine manufacturers charge thousands of dollars to supply new ones if lost…

https://www.the-triton.com/2018/07/...-with-eiapp-engine-air-pollution-certificate/

 

[Captain Ralph]

So any new boats and old boat engine re-powers need this noteafter 1/1/2000.

I assume this is some of the logic in purchasing Cummins re-man engines vs new engines?
These are not new engines.

 

[Pascal]

It seems so for boats over 24 meters. So far there hasn’t been any enforcement but it s only a matter of time just like NOAA enforcement of speed limits off the east coast. Apparently a captain was fined $15k for running over 10 kts ($7500 for each day a violation is recorded).

 

[mike.s]

It seems so for boats over 24 meters. So far there hasn’t been any enforcement but it s only a matter of time just like NOAA enforcement of speed limits off the east coast. Apparently a captain was fined $15k for running over 10 kts ($7500 for each day a violation is recorded).

Are you saying under 24 meters does not require the EIAPP?

 

[Pascal]

Are you saying under 24 meters does not require the EIAPP?

I believe so but reading all this EPA BS gives me a massive headache

 

[mike.s]

I believe so but reading all this EPA BS gives me a massive headache

I hope you're right. The boat I just bought is a 97 that was repowered in 2010 with C32's and I have not seen that cert anywhere, but its 72 feet so maybe I got lucky. Guess I need to do some more research.

 

[Pascal]

Here another pdf from the EPA. As I read it, no minimum size but it appears that boats which remain in US waters do not need it. If you operate in foreign waters (Canada, Bahamas etc) I appears to be required.

https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi/P100F3YM.PDF?Dockey=P100F3YM.PDF

The EIAPP is. It just a certificate, it also include 30 or 40 pages of technical information. Bureaucracy at it s best: the pollution generated by all this BS probably exceeed the engine emissions

 

[SKYCHENEY]

A few years ago when I was getting pricing on engine packages for re-power, Cummins quoted Tier II "remans" and Tier III new. When I asked for a quote on C12 Cats, I was told that they could not quote them to anyone in the US because they were Tier II engines. They could sell them overseas, but not here. At the time, the only Tier III engines that they could quote were the C8.7(which I purchased) or the C12.9

Tier IV final is a whole different animal with DEF and particulate filters. I'm just glad I bought these before all of that gets mandated/enforced.