Sam's is your source for Hatteras and Cabo Yacht parts.

Enter a part description OR part number to search the Hatteras/Cabo parts catalog:

Email Sam's or call 1-800-678-9230 to order parts.

The best of today's Diesels

Well Doug L. certainly convinced me about my fear of modern computer operated engines in boats. (regarding a $70.00 six week old part). As tempting as some of the new electronic controled engines are concerned, I am sure that most are OK but just when you think it's safe to jump back in the water and another example of electronic failure. Thank God for older Detroits - i.e. mechanicals......

Walt
 
Yeah, the old mechanical Cummins were great engines too. I still one in an old piece of equipment. Now, I periodically have a driver stuck on the side of the road somewhere due to some bad sensor. On the water that's not just inconvenient. That's scary.
 
Here is the latest in the stb. engine saga. I took the suggestion to try a no load runup. I brought the engine to 5000 and left it there fo a full minute. Very smooth and it then seemed to work much better under a load. Filled up with Valve Tech gas and discovered that my high fuel consumption is a false reading. When it goes way up though, the engine starts dropping rpm. Could something be wrong inside the sensor? Mine are Navman. I will take it out of the system for a test. Today the engine ran great at 3200 rpm. It may have bobbled once, but I am getting gun shy. It did act badly just before we entered the marina here in Miami. I guess I would rather be troubleshooting engines than shoveling snow.
 
Maynard,

Lots of good advise, I hope you solve your problem. On the diesel question, I can't intelligently comment on which brand of engine you should choose, but I can suggest you contact "Al Grovers High and Dry Marine" in Freeport NY, they advertise that they have done more Yanmar conversions than anyone. Me, I still like the US iron.

http://www.algroversmarine.com/.

The horsepower suggestions from the folks that have the series 1 36C are invalid for our series 2 boats. The series 2 requires much more push for a variety of reasons. My boat has the same engines that Jim Rosenthal used to have (350 HP 3116 Cat) and I don't get anywhere near the same cruise speed Jim got, although my top end is within a couple mph. My hull which is the same as yours cruises nicely at 18MPH at 2.250 RPM, an easy cruise, and very economical. If you need a 22 or so MPH cruise my guess is you will need more like 400 to 425 HP. The deep V, tunnels, and keel account for a great ride, but at the cost for a need for more power, but you already know that. I guess if you know you are going to keep the boat a repower makes sense. If it were me I would choose common rail technology and go for all the HP I could squeeze into the engine room. In the fall I posted speed vs RPM for my 1988 36, you may want to look it up. By the way your 1.75" shafts should be fine, I have Twin Disc transmissions and can get you the specifications if need be. Your new exhaust will be a major expense, don't overlook it. You'll definitely have to increase the exhaust tube diameter. Your raw water intakes will also have to be changed, but the shafts, batteries (you'll need new cabling) and of course your fuel tank can remain the same. A Hatteras is a good candidate for a repower because most systems were made for either a gas or diesel engine. By the way, there is another member that recently installed Cat 425HP in his Series 2, maybe he will offer some advise.

If you need pictures, clearance numbers, or anything else, give me a call.
Tony D
 
My friend who runs an independent diesel shop (inland) made a comment on the new iron. He mostly works on older DD equipped loaders and such. We were discussing the new common rail, computer controlled engines. He busted out laughing when I confirmed that Hatteras was putting CATS in the new boats, he said that they can't keep them running on land, and can only imagine the nightmare in a boat. He said CAT was having catastrophic mechanical failures early on but that is rare now, but the sensor/computer problems are so bad that customers who have them are giving up and just expect them to break down every week. He said that quite a few have bought laptops and supply of sensors to try and keep them running on their own, because of down time waiting for technicians. These guys put a lot more hours on an engine than boat owners, so they will experience more failures, but this looks real bad. I am not picking on CAT, DD has a lot of problems too, just that my buddies anacedotal view is that you would be crazy to put them in a boat.

Any CAT owners out there who can comment.
 
It happens on all computer controlled/electronic sensor engines. I have Cummins in a couple of trucks and those seem to have more problems than the Volvos or Cats. But, hey, that's just my personal experience.
 
On the topic of Diesels, what is the experience with Volve Penta 61 TAMD in a lot of boats around 1987? One boat I'm looking at has them. They sure sound smooth, but I don't have much information about them.

jcchev
 
I'm going to quote Tony Athens at Seaboard Marine on this, keeping in mind that he does not sell CATs- they are his competitors. He does, however, have an excellent rep for honesty and maintains several boats equipped with CATs.

He feels that they have a higher problem rate than Cummins or Yanmar. He pointed out that there are satisfied CAT owners out there and, indeed, when I put my very well maintained 3116s up for sale I had dozens of calls from all over the world, and ended up selling them to the Caymans. But the fact is, I took out engines with a total of 750 hours on them, running fine, to put in something else. My friend Dave has had several catastrophic failures with similar engines. His boat has two new engines. Mine is getting repowered.

I can't imagine a situation in which I would willingly accept CATs in a new boat. If the manufacturer insisted on them, it would be a deal-breaker. That's all there is to it. I'd go elsewhere.

The choice of which brand of marine engines goes into a new vessel is dictated by a lot of concerns, and frankly I think that which is the best engine for the vessel sometimes gets left back on the drawing board. I think far more important is what sort of deal the boat builder can get from the engine company, especially if they are willing to set it up so that their entire line is powered by one make. Right now, AFAIK, all Hatteras yachts are powered by either CAT or DD/MTU. Do they offer anything else? Do they even offer DD/MTU any more?

I have heard of at least one boat builder (Viking Yachts) who were sustained through lean times a while back by the fact that MAN was willing to extend them engines and gears etc so they could continue to build and sell boats. How true this is, I don't know, but I don't dismiss it out of hand. The single most expensive piece of hardware that goes in any powerboat is those engines and drive train. Haveing someone front that to you would be a powerful incentive to make them your main supplier.

I just don't think CATs quality control in marine engines is very good. I know they build good truck engines and earthmoving equipment. They've been in business for decades. And maybe their marine products are better. But I only have one boat, I am not (thank God) a fleet admiral, and I didn't have enough confidence in them. In fairness, my friends at T&S Marine in Crisfield have sold hundreds of CAT engines to watermen who have to make their living with them. However.......

...last year T&S picked up Cummins also, as a new engine dealer.

Oh, and I don't think much of Volvo either, but again, I've never owned one. Look on the www.boatdiesel.com forum, and you'll see lots of opinions on everything.
 
Maynard;

I repowered a 36C II with C9's @ 500hp @ 2500rpm. My speeds were posted earlier. What I found is that this hull has to reach 24-25 knots depending on load to really plane, in other words for the bow to come down some. I don't use tabs except to correct a listing condition. This happens at about 2000rpm or 80% of WOT. I think the setup is ideal. When I did this back in 2004 the Cummins B model horsepower went up to 370 which I thought would be too small. I stayed away from the C7 because of the 3126 reputation although I now believe the C7 has been a very good engine. This narrowed it down to the QSC @ 490hp or the C9. I'm with Tony D on the preference of US iron and also because where I am it is a full days drive for Volvo or Yanmar to get here. I chose CAT based on dealer comfort and price.

Now Cummins has the QSB @ 475hp @ 3400rpm. With the QSB @ 475 your 1.75" shafts will work with a SF between 4 & 5. With a 2:1 gear your 26 x 23 props would probably work or need minor modification. Cummins has really cranked up the rpm rating on the B & C engines this year to achieve this additional horsepower. Some experts say that higher rpm has no impact on wear. Time will tell.

Myself I would prefer the higher displacement, lower rpm, higher torque engines. If you go this way with the QSC or C9 you will have to buy new shafts, cutlass bearings to fit existing struts and props. The gear will be more money also.

As you know your 36C II has some of the same design features as the current Hatteras products. I would not skimp on horsepower or engine, control or engine monitoring technology.

Bottom line is if you and your son are going to do this work dealer comfort (assistance now and future service) is most important. If you are going to have a yard do the work they probably have their own favorites.

Regarding CAT; I see absolutely no reason to be afraid of any current CAT product. I am 100% satisfied. Seems like Hatteras feels the same.

JTS
 
maynard

good seing you today... here is the link about fuel system fed. regs...

http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/boatbuilder/downloads/FUELSYSTEM.pdf

check out the section on anti syphon valves, page 79 - 84. if the fuel line dips below the top of the tank, an anti syphon valve or electric solenoid MUST be installed. I'm pretty sure these rules have been aroudn for a long time so your boat must have one.

since you've checked everything else, i'm betting on that or the pick up in the tank ! this is the only thing you haven't looked at... the failure mode, after some running, is consistent with a fuel pick up getting clogged.
 
since you've checked everything else, i'm betting on that or the pick up in the tank ! this is the only thing you haven't looked at... the failure mode, after some running, is consistent with a fuel pick up getting clogged.

Sounds good. But why the smell of unburned gas? I still say ignition failure.
 
luckydave215 said:
Sounds good. But why the smell of unburned gas? I still say ignition failure.

Bingo...There is a ball check valve in a fitting on the top of the tank. This thing is USCG required to prevent gas siphoning into the bilge. It was plugged almost solid with little sheets of what looked like varnish. I cleaned all that crap out, checked the port and genny check valves, which were clean, and my problem is solved. Shure did a lot of work and picked all these good folks brains. There never was a problem with that reliable Crusader in the first place.
 
Good for you, Maynard. So now you can think about repowering at your leisure, not in a hurry. You have the best of both worlds.

I vote for C Series Cummins. Let us know what you decide to do.
 
Pascal said:
maynard

good seing you today... here is the link about fuel system fed. regs...

http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/boatbuilder/downloads/FUELSYSTEM.pdf

check out the section on anti syphon valves, page 79 - 84. if the fuel line dips below the top of the tank, an anti syphon valve or electric solenoid MUST be installed. I'm pretty sure these rules have been aroudn for a long time so your boat must have one.

since you've checked everything else, i'm betting on that or the pick up in the tank ! this is the only thing you haven't looked at... the failure mode, after some running, is consistent with a fuel pick up getting clogged.

You guessed it, Pascal...Hatteras has a spring loaded ball check valve just after the tank top shutoff valve. My stb. one was plugged almost completly..Problem solved, thanks Pascal. i wish I could return the favor by solving your new oven problem, and i am discussing that with one of my electrical geniuses.
 
yachtsmanbill said:
Thats a good point too Dave. If he is still using a centrifugal advance and a spring broke, same results! Another stupid one is to shear the drive gear to cam to oil pump pin in the distributor shaft. But, I dont get the fuel deal. :confused:
With either intake or exhaust valves open you'd pop out the top or the end. Compression sounds too good for that, with cam timing too. But hell, we used to index the cam a tooth advanced for more top end or retarded one for more bottom end. Starboard engine is opposite rotation and has gears, the port is standard and has a chain.
Another stupid idea, if the oil pressure regulator stuck closed and RPMs dictated more pressure, the lifters could stay over pumped. One in a million on that with a 454 tho...got to monitor the oil pressure at speed for that. I think that much would blow the rear main seal out.
After all has been done, I would pull vacuum at the tank connection and eliminate the whole supply end for leaks. Could also be a cracked pickup in the tank too. My ROAMER had a 1/32 hole at the top of the pickup in the tank for a vacuum break in the event of a fuel line breaking, the tank wont syphon into the bilge. When I had my problems, I even soldered the hole closed and put in SeaRay (gulp) check valves at the tank valves. Its going to be something real simple. Call Henry Ford!! ws
I love it when I make suggestions and people listen!! AS IN CHECK VALVES! ws
 
Great!! Turns out, as usual, to be simple. It's just a matter of finding it (which sometimes isn't so simple).
 
shoot... i' can't even say that it's amazing what a little talking over a cold one can do since i realized after you left that i dind't even offer you a drink ! shame on me.. next time i forgot by boating buddy manners... remind me !

glad you solved it... well... hopefully :-)... have you sea trialed the boat ?

as we discussed, the funny thing is that this may have not even been related to your misfueling ! now the question is why was this one dirty and not the other two ? is the spring stiffer maybe ?
 
i dont' mean to be replying to myself !!!! but...

I saw Unity today coming back in thru cape florida chanel as we were going out in the hober... looked like she was on plane, running well.

problem solved ???
 
Pascal said:
i dont' mean to be replying to myself !!!! but...

I saw Unity today coming back in thru cape florida chanel as we were going out in the hober... looked like she was on plane, running well.

problem solved ???
Yes, Pascal..Thanks to your ideas Unity is running perfectly. My son, Steve, put 15 hours on the boat fishing in the ocean this weekend. He said it ran flawlessly. He also said he may have accidently thrown some spray on you and your catamaran dingy.Oops, I hope he didn't and so does he. If he did please accept his apology.
 
hey, no appology needed ! we kind of went out into cape florida channel to see how the hober handled big wakes ! it did great ! then we dropped anchored righ off the lighhouse and swam for while... had fun.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
38,156
Messages
448,741
Members
12,482
Latest member
UnaVida

Latest Posts

Trending content

Back
Top Bottom