that smell!?

[nor'easter]

I looked at a boat last week that has "that smell". It is a late 80s C with galleymaid heads (3) and the salt h20 pump and intake is in the forward bilge compartment accessed in the companionway. The smell was most noticeable in that area, and seems to come from this compartment. The boat needs soft goods below as well.
First thought....run. I have no experience in getting rid of this smell. My 39 has v-flush heads and no smell. Will changing the heads to vflush or similar get rid of this, or is this a "part" of the boat now? I am not thrilled about the prospect of changing the head system, but would consider it if it would work.

 

[Beckytek]

I'm not familiar with Galley Maid heads but I have had salt water flush toilets. If you don't flush for a while, say a week, then they do smell bad until you flush all the bad water out. If that is the source of the smell you could convert the heads to fresh water flush. That would be much cheaper than getting new heads. I have V-flush heads with fresh water and I have no smell at all. Ron

 

[MikeP]

You will get some differences of opinion the cause of "boat odor" in general. Here's my experience of 4 years with our 53MY.

We have the oem GM heads with salt water flush. I have never had any odor from them. HOWEVER, we used the boat even just in the slip - quite a bit and the head's were always flushed fairly often and with quite a bit of water. Left for several weeks in Long Island sound without flushing, we never got any head odor. Believe me, the Admiral is EXTREMELY sensitive to such things and if there was any smell, I would be addressing it immediately. The boat is now in the Chesapeake bay (warmer water) and I can say that after one week of no use they did not smell but whether they will do as well through the summer, I don't know. I am prepared to replace the heads if necessary but will only do so if the oem GMs begin demonstrating an odor problem. Functionally, they work great and I have absolutely no complaints with them. OK, the GM macerator pump IS a little noisy in the middle of the night!

I think the the key to avoid head odor is PLENTY of water being flushed through the head system. I hit the manual flush button and flush for a count of 6-7 at the least.

Once a lot of odor develops and stays, it can be wicked into the soft goods and even into the wood. If this happens it will take a lot longer to get rid of.

Our boat has never had the "old hatt smell." I have mentioned here before that one of the most common comments we get when people come aboard is "It doesn't smell like a boat!" I don't know if it's luck or what. I keep everything pretty clean, including the bilges - but I'm sure most folks do the same. I toss some powdered Boraxo in all the bilges every so often. Usually the bilges are essentially dry (Gore packing in the stuffing boxes) but after our 4 day run from LI to the Chesapeake there was maybe 2 cups of water in each. I try to keep them completely dry. I think that is also a big help. The previous owner (he was the second owner and had her for 15 years) was an ex WWII navy destroyer guy and he also kept everything very clean.

Don't know if any of this is useful but it's our experience so far...

 

[nor'easter]

Thanks.
This is useful information. I am worried that the smell could be there to stay. The boat was in warm water on the west coast in MX for some period of time. I assume that the boat was used irregularly as well.
The carpet, bedding, and wall coverings need to be improved. I am worried about the wood and companionway decks. I would hate to go through improving the head system to find out that the smell persisted.

Experience and success in ridding the smell would be helpful. Thanks in advance.

 

[thoward]

Bilges are a major factor like Mike said. If I leave much water in them the boat will stink. The salt water head will also stink if not flushed for a while. There are critters in salt water and they stink when left to multiply in stagnant water.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Don't overlook old hoses running to the holding tank. My boat had "that smell" until I changed out all of the old head hoses. I don't think it has anything to do with the manufacturer of the toilet or the water (fresh or salt), it's just the permeation of smell through those cracking old hoses.

 

[Capt Ratty]

Thats it. Sky has just told you what it smell probably is. To test the hoses, wet a rag with water (clean I hope), and rub it over the hoses to the holding tank. Now smell the rag. Well? I think that is your problem. Replace all those hoses.

 

[Brian Degulis]

The boat we have now 61'MY is our first with salt water heads we are in FL and after sitting for a while they would smell on the first few flushes. To make matters worse It was a smell that didn't go away so quickly and my is not happy about bad smells (it's anybodys guess why she married me). Anyway heres what I did.

In the line that runs from the Galley Maid pump to the Rim of the bowl (flushing water) I installed a filter housing the type you get from Home Depot sold as a Whole house filter. Make sure it has a valve to By pass or filter on it. I removed the element and droped a 2000 flushes tablet in the filter housing. Then I adjusted the by pass valve so just enough water flows thru the housing and mixes with the flush water to turn it a light blue.

All smell is completly gone no matter how long it sits and the pellets last forever for me a great solution to a stinky problem.

I have been told by some that the chlorine in the 2000 flushes can do damage over time maybe they are right but I don't think so. It's being mixed in after the pump so no efect on the pump components after that we are talking hoses only and I'm just not seeing a problem. And if it does become a problem there are products without chlorine that could be used at this point I'm thinking it's just not going to be a problem.

To get rid of the general stink in a boat that's been sitting the comercial Ozone generators work great. I'm not talking about the units you leave on all the time. It'a a little contraversal but many think breathing in ozone even in small amounts isn't any good for you so who needs that. The commercial units have timers so you turn on the AC fans set the timer and leave. Come back at least 20 miutes after it shuts down open everything up and the boat smells great. It's the same fresh smell that's in the air after a good thunder storm. I bought one a while back around $800 and I use it on the boat at home car work anyplace that needs to be freshened up.

Brian

 

[nor'easter]

Thanks all, that is good advice. There may be another reason or 2 I stay away from this boat, but the smell had me spooked. Next time I get aboard I will try the sniff test with the rag on the hoses feeding the hold-tank. I do thin the bilge water sitting in this compartment is implicated too.

 

[MikeP]

Ozone is really bad for rubber components but whether that's an issue for these ozone generators in normal use, I don't know.

 

[Genesis]

DO NOT use Ozone generators on a boat! NEVER NEVER NEVER!

Ozone eats rubber and plastics at an incredibly-accelerated rate. Enough of it to neutralize odors (which it does REALLY WELL) is also enough to compromise hoses and electrical insulation. Add vibration (as exists on all boats when running) and you've got a potentially dangerous situation.

Getting rid of "boat smell" is essentially a matter of dealing with your head system and insuring that all stale water is OUT of the bilges, including places that are hard to get to. If you keep the bilges clean and dry, and your head system is in good shape, it won't stink. Seawater heads that are not flushed regularly, especially in warm climates where the boat can reach very high temperatures inside when not in use, will stink.

The easiest solution to the problem with saltwater heads is to replumb them with fresh water. The second easiest is to put in a VF head system which flushes with fresh water. You can use chemical feeders (as one guy noted above) but you have to be careful with these as "full dose" chemical feeds will deteriorate rubber components (seals, etc) in the head system. This may be an acceptable trade-off however.

But - if you don't get the bilges cleaned out, the stink will not go away.

 

[eze2bme]

Another possible source of "that smell" could be the shower sumps ... the pumps in the sumps DO NOT pump out all of the water ... so smeels can generate from there also if the showers are not used frequently. If I'm not going to use my showers for a period of time I always use the wet vac and get them dry, then add a little Cascade Dishwasher crystals (keeps the sumps clean at next shower!)

 

[Brian Degulis]

Ozone is used on planes ships boats comercial buildings and homes every day. You would never be able to create the concentrations required to have ANY EFECT AT ALL on plastics rubber or anything else on your boat unless you got some ridiculous super high powered unit and left in on 24/7.

Used as any reasonable person would use it the only thing you will destroy is odor.

There is plenty of information on this on the web and elswhere if you want to get the FACTS.

Brian

 

[MikeP]

Based on the two essentially opposite responses re Ozone, I did some web searching.

Here are quotes from the EPA article at: http://www.epa.gov/iedweb00/pubs/ozonegen.htm

"Ozone is a toxic gas with vastly different chemical and toxicological properties from oxygen. Several federal agencies have established health standards or recommendations to limit human exposure to ozone. These exposure limits are summarized in Table 1."


"Can Ozone be Used in Unoccupied Spaces?

Ozone has been extensively used for water purification, but ozone chemistry in water is not the same as ozone chemistry in air. High concentrations of ozone in air, when people are not present, are sometimes used to help decontaminate an unoccupied space from certain chemical or biological contaminants or odors (e.g., fire restoration). However, little is known about the chemical by-products left behind by these processes (Dunston and Spivak, 1997). While high concentrations of ozone in air may sometimes be appropriate in these circumstances, conditions should be sufficiently controlled to insure that no person or pet becomes exposed. Ozone can adversely affect indoor plants, and damage materials such as rubber, electrical wire coatings, and fabrics and art work containing susceptible dyes and pigments (U.S. EPA, 1996a)."

So it sounds to me like if you want to use these devices, there is more to consider than simply putting them in the boat and plugging them in, especially if people are going to be on the boat any time before the ozone is thoroughly ventilated. As is also implied in the quote above, you'd want to be sure that all of your Rembrandt's, Picasso's, or even your old Beatles posters are removed before turning on that ozone!

 

[Brian Degulis]

MIKE

What's left out of your information is that the concentration needed and time of exposure required for ozone to any damage at all could never be reached in this application it's not even close Typically a commercial ozone generator would be placed on a boat every three months or so and run for around three hours. That kind of exposure can do no harm and that information is well documented.

Can ozone be harmful sure but there is a difference between a lab experiment and realistic use. The fans in these units are plastic and they sit on rubber feet. What your suggesting is like saying alcohol can damage you liver and fatty foods can clog your arteries so if you have a beer and a hot dog you might die.

Brian

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I don't know. The stuff on my boat breaks down fast enough on it's own. I sure don't want to accellerate it any more. I think I'll stick to fresh outside air if I need any odor reduction.

 

[egaito]

With this thread alive again, I figure it's a good time to throw out another theory I've been contemplating as I work through Sanctuary's bilges....

Not to say that head odors are the worst contributor to 'that smell', but I think there may be other factors that make the Hatt version smell a bit different than others boats/brands.

I've noticed as I get into spaces man was not intended to invade that Hatteras left a good bit of debris, mostly in the form of sawdust and fiberglass dust in the bowels of the boat.

Once this "stuff" obsorbs a little moisture or water, it's a source of odor.

Sanctuary has never had a serious issue with it, but it's there, and I've noticed that the concentration seems to be deeper in the bilges.

The cure, I think, is what most people have suggested, clean bilges.

One evening, I spent about an hour with a fresh water hose, just blowing stuff out of the bilge spaces under the master sole. No Tide or bilge cleaner, just fresh water. Couldn't believe the "stuff" that came off the walls of the bilge, and from flat places that never (we hope) get wet. I left the bilge open with the air up, to help with drying it out, and the next day, "that smell" was virtually undetectable, even sticking my head down into the hole.

I think most people, me included, focus on the wet parts of our bilges when cleaning, not thinking about all those places that are holding stuff that can absorb and create odors, out of site and mind.

 

[nor'easter]

I am still poking around, and have a new question. The boat that has this smell has 3 Raritan heads new in 2000 (not GM like I first thought). They are sea water fed. I was curious if it pretty straightforward to convert the same heads to fresh water and elimate the through hulls and standing water in this bilge compartment? I don't know for sure what model they are, and the raritan site doesn't make it clear if the same model can use salt/fresh interchangeably.
I now realize it might be just bad hoses, and replacing them can do the trick, as well as getting and keeping this part of the boat bone dry. I have yet to do the rag test, but the hoses looked to be the cheaper version of marine hose, and not the tough more rigid type recc'd for sanitation nowadays. I certainly wouldn't want to wast money going through a water supply conversion if I didn't need to.
I have no indication that the heads are bad and need to be replaced.
Yes, it has been a while, and I am still looking for the right situation.

 

[MikeP]

"I was curious if it pretty straightforward to convert the same heads to fresh water and elimate the through hulls and standing water in this bilge compartment"

Are the through-hulls leaking? THere should be no standing water caused by through hulls in proper condition and properly bedded - they are not supposed to leak/weep/seep or anything.

Our boat has had raw-water heads since new and the salt water use in the heads has never caused any odor problems at all since we have owned it. We have operated in Long Island Sound and the Chesapeake Bay.

As far as removing seacocks, my personal feeling is to NEVER permanently remove a seacock. If you no longer need it, cap it. You never know when you might need one. There were two on our 53 that were capped when we bought it and I used one of them for an anchor rode salt water washdown. The other is standing by possible water maker duty! They are handy to have available.

 

[nor'easter]

Thanks Mike,
Can't answer about the condition of the thru hulls/seacocks. They appear to be serviceable, but I am just looking at this boat. If things went along, and she were mine, I would certainly get a quick answer.
Good thought on just capping them. I am pretty sure it is a hose, connection problem. The boat was not run alot by an absentee owner, and the smell just hung around, now is in carpet, etc.