Teak And Holly Sole

[MikeP]

You might take a look at Amtico for this application. There is a pics in my gallery as I was installing it.
http://www.samsmarine.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=494&cat=500&page=1

It's very durable and is used on a lot of boats now. Hatt was using it as of last year. They have a huge amount of different styles/patterns, including teak/holly. Search Amtico and it will show up.

 

[thoward]

I did some searching yesterday and came up with this site:

http://www.plasteak.com/boating/flooring/flooring.htm

They have 2 interesting products to me, one is an imitation teak/holly for interiors called "lonseal" and the other is exterior called "plasdeck". Anyone have experience with either?

Also I was told that Hunter sailboats and some others use a teak/holly imitation that looks like the real thing. On their web-site it is called
"everwear". When I searced for that all I come up with is adds for boats.
Anyone know anything about this stuff?
Thanks,
Jeff

I looked at it and was just not impressed. I can not place my finger on why but it reminded me of laminate wood flooring.

 

[Starman]

The plasteak exterior product is made of recycled milk jugs and looks like plastic. I had samples of there products one time and decided to toss them, as I would not feel good about selling it.

I know a man who had a swim platform made of plasteak. He could hardly walk on it when it was wet. It was like ice he said. Very slick.

About two years ago I did some work on a 80 footer hatt ( do not remember the exact size, but was very large. twin sets of stairs leading down to the staterooms. )

Anyways, the pilot house floor was done in this pickled oak with the chamfered edges. The seams were parting, the factory pre-finish was about worn off...........it was ugly. The boats was about a 95-97 model if I remember right.

I have seen people put in these pre-fab floating floor panels sold at HD and L and after time they all seem to separate at those joints. Regardless of the type of slatted wood , or other pre-fab product used, the joints should be tongue and groove, applied with a waterproof type floor mastic and staple/nailed on the tongue.

Boats flex, and these other products, from what I have seen over the past 12 years just do not seem to withstand the flex and moisture conditions and this is compounded by improper installation.

So regarless of what product you go with, at least install it the proper way !

 

[Brian Degulis]

I don't like the plastic teak look alike either. As far as the pre engineered flooring some are not made of plywood it's some sort of press board and has no moisture resistance at all I wouldn't use that. Some of the all plywood styles are very thin about 1/4"-5/16' so it's almost impossable to staple them. But there are a few like Harris Tarkett that are 9/16" thick so it's easy to staple the tongue. I think if you do that along with a urethane mastic adhesive you won't have any problems I cant speak for 12 years down the road but in 5 years of normal use it's held up very well.

I believe the teak and holly is just based on some sort of interior plywood so I'm not seeing a big differance between that and the pre engineered floors. In my opinion the heavier pre engineered stuf is a more durable product with a much thicker top veneer.

As far as flexing goes sure boats flex but you going down on top of plywood so I'm not seeing a problem with that.

Brian

 

[luckydave215]

I just got a whole bunch of samples from lonseal. Go to their website and request them, they're free, and they fedex them to you.
I want to replace the (perfect condition, but in my eyes ugly) linoleum in my heads, and don't want real wood in that location. The samples look pretty good from three feet away, I'm not going to get down on my knees under the toilets and inspect it with a microscope after all.
I also got samples of their other "ship's bridge" style decking materials, as I may do my engine room with something other than awlgrip white. The awlgrip looks wonderful, but drop one tool......

 

[thoward]

One other thing, we do sell these boats sooner or later and teak looks like teak and look good to the next buyer. A bathroom is small enough to do right at a reasonable cost. Personally I think it would be a mistake to do it in anything but reasonable thickness real teak.

 

[Starman]

I want to make sure that no one misunderstands me, or my stance on teak vs. other products. It is after all our opinions , just make sure it is all put down the right way.

TH said: " One other thing, we do sell these boats sooner or later and teak looks like teak and look good to the next buyer. "

That is probably the best of all reasons to stick with the "real thing ". If there were two exact boats, which one would the buyer opt for ?

At the same time, I wonder if there were two exact same boats with real teak vs. other products, would there be a different value put on the boat worth, or would it be insignificant ?

 

[thoward]

Personally, I would look at it as a short cut and it would set of a warning to look closer at where else they cut corners. 1/4 or 2/4 teak with black seam compound looks great as well and you can leave it natural which IMHO would be better in a head due to the slip factor.

 

[MikeP]

" Personally, I would look at it as a short cut and it would set of a warning to look closer at where else they cut corners."

If you mean that not using wood flooring is a "shortcut," I don't agree. I don't know of any new production boats that use real wood on any floor. Therefore, I don't think it could be looked at as corner cutting to use a "plastic" (or whatever the heck they are) product. When coupled with the fact that the oem for most of the boats on this site was sheet linoleum/asphalt tile, there is no reason to expect that real wood would be the replacement for it. As I noted, Hatteras themselves use Amtico as they note in the brochure for the 64MY: The fully equipped galley features... and Amtico vinyl-strip flooring

HOWEVER - as Paul pointed out, if I was looking at two boats that were essentially the same otherwise and one had a REAL teak/holly floor (NOT teak/holly - veneered plywood) I would certainly select the teak holly boat.

Those of you who have been on the site for a while know that about 2 years ago I did our boat in Amtico teak/holly. I posted a bunch of info/tips/pics on the project. I have since deleted the pics because my pic file was full and I couldn't post any more. Boat brokers who looked at the finished floor (passageway, all heads, galley, forward helm area) were amazed on how good it looked. I even had several get down on their knees to examine it and they still said it looks like real wood. Several boat owners in the marina looked at it, raved, and had it installed on their boats. It absolutely DOES look like real wood and, installed properly (with the epoxy adjesive, NOT the single part adhesive, it is extremely durable.

BUT it doesn't look like real teak and holly and that has come to bother me in the nearly two years since I did it.

When I say it doesn't look like real t/h it's not because it doesn't look like wood, it's because it doesn't look like real (solid) t/h looks AS INSTALLED IN A BOAT - at least any boat I have seen.

I have a friend who, late last season, bought a beautiful 53 at an honest-to-God giveaway price. The boat's interior had solid teak holly floors and I immediately said to the Admiral, "I should have put this in!" She agreed.

So if I had it to do over, even though our floors get rave reviews by anyone who comes aboard, I would not consider anything other than real teak and real holly planks. Again, NOT t/h plywood which looks more like plastic than do some of the plastics and is not durable at all because there's nothing there except a 1/32" strip of product on the plywood.

If you look at a well maintained solid teak/holly floor on an old boat, you'll see that NONE of the simulations look like them. To me the worst is any product that isn't in plank form. Sheets of material - plastic or plywood - look just like what they are; sheet goods. There is no grain variation like real wood and no random plank length. It all just looks like someone spray painted the thing. THe problem with the amtico is that the product doesn't mimic TH the way it is normally installed on boats. The Amtico Teak planks have much more grain and color variation than does the real thing as it is installed on boats. Additionally, the planks are too wide. THe Amtico flooring looks like real hardwood flooring as is frequently laid in a house - not in a boat.

I do note that on the pics of the flooring on the current Hatts, I prefer the look of that Amtico to what I installed on Brigadoon. The new Hatt's fake wood looks a bit more like the real thing because of the narrower plank width. It may be possible to special order this from Amtico. However, to my eye, it still doesn't look like a real TH solid wood floor. The grain/color is wrong.

But, as I started out saying, I don't think anyone should hesitate in using whatever material they are happy with for the floors. The oem floors on our boats were covered with plain old sheet linoleum that nearly no one would have specified for their new house kitchen in the same era. Almost anything you'd think of putting on these floors would be an "upgrade." It's probably one of the only "upgrades" to one of these boats that isn't, in reality, a downgrade.

Sorry - this got longer than I intended...

 

[Fishmon]

Being new here I don't want to raise any hackles.

There are 2 reasons for my interest in the imitations. One is the thought of not using trees from the rain forest appeals to me. The other is just how much money do I want to put in decks for a $35k boat? I haven't received my samples yet though.

I have removed the old carpet from the salon (1966 41c) and we know we don't want carpet. What we are left with is the original linoleum floor both inside and in the cockpit. Pretty much ANYTHING is an improvement.

Jeff

 

[Starman]

Being new here I don't want to raise any hackles.

There are 2 reasons for my interest in the imitations. One is the thought of not using trees from the rain forest appeals to me. The other is just how much money do I want to put in decks for a $35k boat? I haven't received my samples yet though.

I have removed the old carpet from the salon (1966 41c) and we know we don't want carpet. What we are left with is the original linoleum floor both inside and in the cockpit. Pretty much ANYTHING is an improvement.

Jeff

Jeff,

I do not think you or anyone is raising any hackles here. Instead we are all just voicing our opinions in what I think is a very civil tone.

I think there are steps in quality, but have not priced the imitation products so cannot speak about that.

So we start with the old fashioned linoleum, then step up to the imitation, then the teak and holly ply then the real ( solid teak ) parquet and solid teak tongue and groove.

Teak & Holly ply comes in various thicknesses and I prefer the 1/2 inch thick It sells for about 175.00 to 200.00 a sheet.( 4'X8' ) Pay more than that and you get burnt !

Teak Parquet sells for somewhere in the hood of 125.00 to 150.00 for 25 square feet ( they come in 12X12 and 25 in a box. )

Solid teak strips........Teak sells for about 16.00 a board foot ( retail ) to about 22.00 bdf. Then it must be milled. This is the highest price for flooring, but the most appealing to the eye and durability.

Maybe someone can give some prices on the other products and we can see just how much difference these items cost .

 

[Trojan]

I don't think I could afford a 14' X13' floor of real teak. Then I would worry about any thing that might fall on it or scratch it. These are boats, things do move around in ruff seas and they do get wet. There are heavy traffic areas in some boats. There must be something out there. What are the new boats using. I saw some nice looking floors at the boat show. I refuse to run around my boat in my stocking feet.

BILL

 

[Fishmon]

Paul - I think I can DIY the lonseal for the whole interior in the $2500 range and about the same for the plasteak in the cockpit.

I can't for the life of me find the Amtico vinyl-strip flooring for sale. The Amtico web-site is about as bad as I have seen. Does anyone know where I can buy this stuff? Seems to be a secret.

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[egaito]

Paul - I think I can DIY the lonseal for the whole interior in the $2500 range and about the same for the plasteak in the cockpit.

I can't for the life of me find the Amtico vinyl-strip flooring for sale. The Amtico web-site is about as bad as I have seen. Does anyone know where I can buy this stuff? Seems to be a secret.

Thanks,
Jeff

I came close to signing up with Amtico as a dealer last year. They don't market heavily to the marine market, beyond OEMs. Their marketing strategy is to go through installers, which is why you don't find it on store shelves.

Check higher-end flooring stores in the area, and if you can't find a contact, let me know and I'll contact the factory rep I was in touch with to see if she can find you a source.

A couple of other notes on the product:

They make a "marine grade" product. Turns out it's a formulation issue. Materials that meet fume standards when burned are used to make that version. I was told that as an owner, we can install anything we want, but a boat manufacturer is tied to the standards.

Their standard "planks" have a beveled edge, it's slight, but I did not want it in the boat. You can order straight edges as a special order.

They don't have a holly, but warm beach works well for the strip. I also chose mahogony, as I didn't like the color of their teak options....but that's subjective. You might love it.



Great stuff. I'm still planning on using it.

 

[Maynard Rupp]

I put Plasteak on our head floor and in our galley. Neither of these are large areas, but they look great and hold up perfectly. Some of our members have seen this in our boat and they all had favorable comments,(maybe they were just being kind). I did have some pictures on an older post and they still might be there but I am not sure. I do give Plasteak a big thumbs up.

 

[yachtsmanbill]

That AMTICO site is really lame aint it? ws

 

[Boss Lady]

You can call me old school. You "cannot" go wrong with the classic materials, ever. Silicon bronze, 316 stainless, teak, and mahogony are lifetime materials.

With that said, budgets do play a part with our decisions. I would rather do something once, than to spend the lesser amount of money now to only have to redo it in 3-5 years and wind up spending more than if I had done it right the first time. Been there, done that too many times.

I also caution against the fad type finishes. Example, got a line on a nice 5 year old 50 Hat SF for a good price. I went and looked at it, no teak anywhere and the cabinets were finished in that white wash finish. Butt Ugly is all I can say about the boat, and the lack of any teak accents made the boat look like an old cheap a$$ Ocean. It was explained that the owner did not like having to take care of teak so he ordered this boat for minimal maintenance. This caused me to question "his" other maintenance practices, which were abysmal upon investigation.

Visual appeal means a lot. If I were looking at your boat and you told me you "added" new teak floors, that would tell me a lot about other things done to the boat.

 

[MikeP]

If you are truly ranking them in order of "quality"...

I think you have to consider that the teak/holly plywoods look even less like teak/holly planks than the better imitations. Additionally, the extremely thin veneer is less durable. I'd suggest that the good imitations have to rank above teak holly plywood in the upgrade tier.

 

[Boss Lady]

I do not like the veneered flooring look. I can tell what it is immediately from a distance.

I would have to agree with you on the order of ranking. The real thing, and then a good quality synthetic, followed by the other choices like veneered.

 

[Starman]

Hey Mike,

I just ranked T&H Ply higher simply because even though it is the same veneer thickness as other plys, it is real teak.

This was on a Bertram I did several years back. It does extend forward to the galley. In this pic it has 5 coats of satin poly, finished by the owner, following my directions.

It took about 2 sheets, plus some solid around the hatches. It was on a 33' -35' ??? ( too many birthdays....lol )