Teach me how to tighten rudder stuffing box

[davidwigler]

I finally found the reason the starboard engine room bilge pump is cycling. Now I need to learn how to tighten the rudder box. Needless to say it is very hard to reach. Thanks for your help.

 

[davidwigler]

One more pic:

 

[sandspur1966]

Hi David, same boat so i assume same packing gland. The nut is 4 1/8 inches and it is impossible to find a wrench that size so I had a machine shop make one out of 1/2 inch cor-ten steel.

from the looks of them i suspect that the packing flax needs to be replaced. Mine was so calcified i could not get it out without dropping the rudders and it came out as one big hardened piece.

you could probably torque them down using a chain wrench and stop the flow temporarily or I know some guys with better access the you and i use big stilson wrenches. i don't like busting up my soft bronze with big wrench teeth so thats why i went with making my own, right-sized open-end wrench. if this has been the PO's philosophy too then the hardened flax may be wearing into the soft shaft material of your rudder posts which, if it goes on too long could affect their strength and/or best case, make sealing it difficult.

My philosophy is "do it right and do it once" and so I changed the packing material and the rudders now turn easier and are dry as a bone.

 

[Angela]

Been there; done that...find a munchkin, put a pipe wrench on it and turn it. Save yourself from the $7,000 yard bill.

 

[davidwigler]

Could someone please explain how it tightens, or post a diagram if you have one?

Is the lower nut a locking nut that moves out of the way and then the top part tightens the packing by moving downward? Or is the lower nut attached to a tube that tightens against the packing by moving upward?

Any danger of affecting the rudder alignment?

 

[34Hatt]

Could someone please explain how it tightens, or post a diagram if you have one?

Is the lower nut a locking nut that moves out of the way and then the top part tightens the packing by moving downward?
Any danger of affecting the rudder alignment?

Is the lower nut a locking nut that moves out of the way and then the top part tightens the packing by moving downward?
YES


Any danger of affecting the rudder alignment?
NO

 

[davidwigler]

Is it possible to add packing without hauling the boat? Are the rudder and shaft secure when the packing nut is loosened?

 

[Avenger]

In theory... you can completely change the packing without hauling the boat. However with the (what we'll euphamistically call) access you have available I'd suggest you may be able to fit in an extra single ring of packing to get you by until the next haulout.

The rudders should have a collar and upper support bearing above the rudder shelf that will keep them in place while you work.

Here's a picture of the stack on my 36. Yours should be larger, but a similar configuration.:

 

[davidwigler]

Thanks for the pic, Scrod. I am familiar with your two-nut style from my last boat. On this one the upper part looks more like a cap than a nut. The shelf blocks the view from above, and I had to reach my camera-hand as far as it would go into the bedside drawers to get these pics. I can't figure out why the shaft does not show at the top of the last picture. The nut and bolt that do appear at the top of the last picture are puzzling me.

 

[Avenger]

Right, it's like a cap. The packing is underneath it. The shaft appears to show in the last picture, there's a shadow from the bolt on it. As far as the bolt... only a guess, but I'd say mounting hardware from the upper bearing.

In my picture that's the triangular looking part with the three bolts. It has the collar on top of it and then the steering arm. The packing gland/rudder post is in the bottom right-hand corner of the picture. Sorry if I'm telling you everything you already know, just making sure we're both seeing the same thing.

 

[Maynard Rupp]

Our newer, 1986 Hatteras has 2 bolts and flanges that pull a tube down into a larger tube that has the packing. Our prop shaft stuffing boxes are the same only larger than the rudder units. I am not sure if i could ever get that far enough apart without lowering the rudders. I have been able to tighten them up enough to stop the water flow. You sure don't have to worry about the rudder packing ever getting hot from being too tight.

 

[dottieshusband]

David, it is a cap nut, and the bottom one is a locking nut. Unscrew the cap nut, slide it up the shaft and retain it there. Dig out the old packing rings, replace with new, overlapping bevel cut to form a compression joint. 4 rings, joints offset 180 degrees, and tighten her down. Then screw up the locking ring. Pic attached is a previous boat of mine. I couldn't even see it. Used my cell camera to remote view it. U can do it!

 

[dottieshusband]

Ps..small pipe wrench was the ticket. It will heap on the smooth cap, or the facets of the nut flange.

 

[dsharp]

I used a drilling hammer to break the lock nut loose. It's basically a 2lb hammer with a very short handle. You don't have to bump it very hard. Most big box stores have them.

 

[davidwigler]

Thanks everyone! What size are the shafts and packing? I want to order some GFO before starting this. Is the packing the same size as the prop shafts?

 

[dottieshusband]

David, On mine the prop and rudder are the same size, 1/2 inch. I did one prop shaft in the Gore, but switched to Duramax 5000 after doing some research. Hamilton Marine has it. My setup is different from yours in that my stuffing box is the 2 bolt collar type. In my owners manual it has an exploded of the stuffing boxes and they note the packing size. Looking at your picture, it doesn't appear that the cap is very far down. Try dropping the locking nut down and tightening the gland nut first. With the cap up, and stuffing out, it not an alarming amount of water coming in, about like a 1/2 inch hose about half open. If yours is 1/2 inch, I have enough spare to do 1 box if you need it.

 

[davidwigler]

Thanks, I got around to checking the Hatteras Manual and my prop and rudderr shafts are 2" with 3/8" packing. I ordered a pound of the Duramax Ultra-X and will change them all out at the next haul-out. Hopefully the rudder packing gland will tighten up this weekend enough to stop the leak until then.

 

[Nonchalant1]

Your packing gland (the big top nut) still has lots of adjustment room (threads below it) to tighten it and compress the old flax enough to stop it from dripping. First try to just tighten it by getting 2 big wrenches (I had 2 made out of cold rolled 1/4 inch steel also) and holding the top nut while turning the bottom locking nut clockwise to move it away from the top nut. If it won't budge, hit them both with a big non-marring lead mallet (very useful on many boat projects and sold at hardware stores). Then try PB Blaster, wait a day, hit it more, and try again. PB Blaster is great for loosening stuck threads, but it smells like flowers for a long time so be careful not to spray the wood there.
Finally, if it won't budge, get a big pipe wrench and crank the whole thing with both nuts together clockwise to tighten it. Since a rudder doesn't turn fast, it won't get too tight and burn the shaft like a propshaft gland.

Doug

 

[davidwigler]

Good news, the lock nut was easy. The only wrench I could find with large enough jaws was a channel lock.

Bad news is so far I busted my left elbow several times and realized how little upper body strength I have. Then again, the position is very awkward with arms fully extended through a 6" drawer cabinet.

Good news, the leak is down from a small pour to a drip. I'm nursing my elbow and waiting for some strength to return.

Bad news, the port side has a slow drip too. While I'm at it, ....

Thanks everyone, for your help.

 

[TurtleIV]

This thread helped me figure out how to tighten my rudder shaft packing and stop them from leaking, so thanks to everyone who posted on here!
I was able to use a hammer and big pipe wrench to tighten, but it was a bit of a challenge, so I built a special wrench that fits the 4.3" hex nuts on my 58LRC. This makes it so much easier to turn these, just slip the wrench on and tap the tail of the wrench with a hammer to turn. I also included 3/4 inch square drive holes in case I wanted to use a ratchet handle to turn it. If anyone wants one, I can make these in any size, I have access to a water jet cutter and have extra 1/2" thick aluminum plate. Let me know if you want one of these: